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Mr. Glasgow : There is no heading in the tariff under which they could be charged. 442. Mr. Mackenzie.] Complaint is made that only 6s. a week is paid to these girls?—lt would be interesting to know whether the Belgium makers pay any more than 6s. a week for the labour they employ there ?—I am perfectly ignorant on that matter. Mr. Kernot: It is the same in all those industries. Wages are constantly coming down. The Belgian matches are very much cheaper than the English. (10.) William Cliffe examined. 443. The Chairman.] What are you Mr. Cliffe?—A boilermakor and iron-ship builder. 1 have followed the trade for fifteen years and a half in this colony, and I am here to represent the Boilermakers' and Iron-ship Builders' Society of Wellington. 444. Are you an officer of the society?—No, just a delegate. 445. How many operatives does your society contain ? —Thirty-three working members. We have a branch society in Christchurch, but I cannot tell you the number of its members. There was also a branch in Dunedin, but not now. We are affiliated to the Trades Council, and under the same rules practically. There are a few in the trade outside the society in Auckland, Napier, Wanganui, and Dunedin. 446. You have come before the Commission for the purpose of representing certain matters in which all these employes are interested : will you state what they are ? —According to the tariff boilers, both land and marine, are charged 20 per cent, ad valorem, but, although there is this duty we find that a number of boilers come in free under other headings—viz., portable and tractionengine boilers, and boilers for creameries. We also consider that the duty of 20 per cent, is too small. 447. Are land and marine boilers imported to any extent ?—A great number have been imported under the duty, and it is likely to continue. All such boilers can be manufactured in the colony. 448. Is the article imported imported at a cost, including the duty, of less than the cost of manufacture here ?—The imported article could be made here equally as cheap, or even cheaper. We have proved that. Luke and Sons have manufactured creamery boilers at less than the cost of importing them. The same applies to Lancashire boilers manufactured by Cable and Co. Not only here, but in Auckland, where I served my time, all these boilers, Lancashire and marine, have been made more cheaply than the imported. 449. Can you account for a state of things like that ?—lt is not the market that is dearer. They pay perhaps a little less for a boiler at Home than, they do here, but the commission of the middle man, who imports the article, is the main cause. It pays the agent to send Home because he gets his commission, whereas if this commission were added to the price of the boiler here it could be obtained cheaper than to import it. 450. Mr. Hutchison.] Is it not the case that the boiler is cheapened to the producer ?—Not in that way. 451. How do you prove it? —Luke has made boilers here for the creameries cheaper than what they could import them for from the Old Country. 452. That is only one side of the case. If these creameries could have bought the boilers cheaper they would have gone into the cheapest market ? —I do not know whether that has been proved. 453. Mr. McGoivan.] You know some of these have combined engine and boiler. Take the traction-engines, and the question arises whether such engines can be made as cheaply here as in the Old Country? —As for the engine, I could not give an opinion, because I am not connected with the trade. 454. I presume you would be prepared to contend that if steps were taken to make the English article more expensive than the local one the producer would not suffer by the exclusion of the imported article ?—He would not suffer. 455. The Chairman.] How much additional duty would bo necessary to bring, about that position?—We consider the present duty should be doubled—that is, raised to 40 per cent.; some think higher. We contend that traction- and portable-engine boilers can be made here just as well as being imported. lam not prepared to answer the question of engines. 456. Supposing this extra duty were put on, what would be the effect, do you think, on your industry? —There would be more employment for our men, two-thirds of whom have been walking about a considerable time. 457. It would be safe to say 100 would cover the number of men in your trade in the whole country?— There are 150 boilermakers in the colony. 458. Mr. Mackenzie.] Two-thirds of them are idle ? —Yes. 459. Mr. Tanner.] Would this number of men be sufficient to overtake the whole of the work, or would the amount of employment stop there?— More men would not be required, barring apprentices. 460. But they are counted in the staff of employes now ?—Yes. 461. Mr. Hutchison.] The witness means the revival of trade would lead to lads going in to learn the trade ? —Yes. 462. The Chairman.] What are boilermakers' wages, on the average ? —The standing wage for the Wellington-Christchurch society is 10s. per day ; in Auckland and Dunedin, Bs. to 10s. The Government pay boilermakers in Christchurch 9s. a day. 463. Mr. Hutchison.] Do you let your Wellington men take 9s. ?—No. 464. Then, there are none of your men in the Government employment ?—There are, I believe, some who have left the society in Christchurch through that same thing ; but in Wellington none of our men are working for that money. At Petone they pay 10s. a day. 465. Mr. Tanner.] You refer to Addington Workshops?— Yes. 466. Mr. Hutchison.] What is the price of a boiler?—A Lancashire boiler, 33ft. by sft.