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to you that what we wish to do is in your interest. If I prove by reason, and show you in reasoning the matter out, that'you are in error, then it will be wisest for you, in the interest of the race you represent, to agree to that which is reasonable, just, and fair You tell me you had a meeting which lasted from the Ist of February to the 4th of March. At that meeting there was only one side represented. Those present were admittedly living under our laws and conforming to our laws, still, there was only one side represented. It is well that you have told me openly the conclusions that were arrived at, because I can deal separately with those conclusions, and point out to you what would be the wisest course to follow Now, what would you say if to-morrow you had a committee doing your business, controlling 3'our affairs, and a dispute arose, and one side only got the ear of the committee, and this committee came to a conclusion? What would you say ? Those who were not represented may be the most powerful, so powerful that if they took umbrage they would say "As we were not represented we will now take by force what they did not give us an opportunity of carrying out by reason." Now, those who were not represented at your meeting, and who have as much interest—a greater interest, in fact—than, those who were represented there, are here now reasoning with you to-day This brings me to one question upon which a conclusion was arrived at, which, I have no hesitation in saying, was almost suicidal on the part of Tuhoe. They might just as well have hung themselves, cut their own throats, or flung themselves into the river , they are coming into direct conflict with what their forefathers, who were wise men, saw was to be in their interests when signing the Treaty of Waitangi. Your forefathers laid down the principle that the Government, which you acknowledge, was to see you maintained in the possession of your own lands. Now, it is impossible for the Government, of which lam the head, to still carry out, on behalf of the Queen, the Treaty of Waitangi, I say it is impossible for us to maintain you in the possession of lands belonging to you unless we know where those lands are situated. If we go back to the old state of affairs and say you can only hold your lands so long as you are powerful enough to do so, how few of the Tuhoe there are now who could hold them against the races of the world. The only protection you have got that prevents other races coming from all parts of the world and taking from you your lands is the Government. The Tuhoe have gone to the north, south, east, and west, and they have helped people against the Government, and what has been the result ? Have you increased in numbers ? Have your lands increased? Ha,ve you extended your boundaries? Or will you admit the truth, that you have decreased in numbers, that your land has become circumscribed, and that your position is an unfortunate one to day ? If you tell the truth, y6u must admit that many of your fathers have been gathered to an early grave, that you have decreased in numbers, and that your position is worse to-day than in days gone by You have to-day admitted—and I was pleased to hear it—that, if any troubles occur outside with any tribe or other people, the Tuhoe will take no part therein, but that you will from henceforth rely upon the Government doing justice to you, and seeing that what belongs to you shall be declared to be yours. After hearing that from you and those representing the tribes here to-day, there is no alternative but to say it is good, it is wise, and, if that course is followed, from to-day will date the prosperity of the Tuhoe. lam sure that the Government, as representing the Queen, and the Queen herself—and I am the mouthpiece of both —will be very pleased that the Tuhoe have come to that conclusion, and mean to faithfully adhere thereto. But what is the use of this if your protestations are only to be treated as mere words. Am Ito understand that the words uttered to-day do not carry the meaning of what is intended, because the words of to-day conflict with the conclusions arrived at at the meeting held from the Ist February to the 4th March ? I have said that the Government desire to protect you, and to maintain you in the possession of the lands which belong to you; but, first of all, it is necessary to know where those lands are, and each one that the land belongs to. Now, before we can ascertain where your land is, and to whom it belongs, there must be a survey outside the present land surveyed. There are people all round you who dispute, and through those disputes ill-feeling is engendered. Are we to allow you to fight and destroy each other, and simply look on while you become less and less, until you disappear altogether? Or are we to say, "As parents of all these children, we will settle those disputes, we will ascertain who the land belongs to, and give it to the rightful owners " ? We prefer to take up the position not of stepfathers or stepmothers, but that of good parents loving their children, and desirous of doing that which is in their interest, and which will prosper them in. this world , and in doing this we are only doing that which has in other places proved to be of great benefit to the Natives particularly, and in the interest of both races. You have told me that some of the Natives are landless—that some of them had their titles ascertained, and parted with their land. lam glad you have put that case before me to-day, and that I have listened patiently to what you said in reference thereto. Some of these Natives have dissipated their substance, and I will point out to you what has occurred on the West Coast, from New Plymouth, say, down to Wanganui. In the case of those Natives, the Government have stepped in, and, by a very strong hand, prevented them from doing away with their substance. Two years ago they received rents from their lands amounting to £2,000 , last year they received £11,000. Not only that, but they still have remaining to themselves to do as they like with—to cultivate —reserves that are more than ample for them and their children—4o,ooo acres. Now, that was by dealing with them as kind parents, but, before we could do this, we had to ascertain what lands belonged to them. As my friend and colleague, Mr. Carroll, told, you to-day, it was in the interest of yourselves that the Government should do this, so that you might be protected. But all must fall in with the general law, so that the strong power of the Government may be behind you, so as to protect you and that strong power lam prepared to-day to offer you. You have to-day told me you respect that power, and that you have determined to uphold it. I cannot exercise that power unless I know in what direction so to do, and what belongs to you, so that I can protect you in it. Those who say they do not want the land which belongs to them to be known, only weaken their position, because it leaves it open to be said they are afraid that, on investigation, they may not be the owners, hence they prejudice their own rights; and, as Mr. Carroll also told you to-day, he and I are 9—G 1.