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by and by. The employer will not pay him more than a boy's wage ; consequently, the man's life is spoiled. He finds that he has thrown his time away when he should be getting, a wage that would enable him to live as a man should. That is, when he desires to marry and to put himself into a comfortable way of living, as every honest working-man has a right to expect, he is blocked by this question of boys. He sees boys doing work that as a right belongs to him. 27. Mr. Millar.] Is it your opinion, Mr. Osborne, that one of the inducements, in addition to the benefit of keeping a boy at home, is that, in sending him to a skilled trade, after he has served his time there is a prospect of his getting a wage which will enable him to live comfortably ? —That is one of the inducements that all people think of when they have their boys taught trades. 28. Not that the boy in the country would not get a fair wage, because he is much better off than the boy in town, but the drawback in the country is that after the boy has grown to manhood the wage he earns is not enough to enable him to live in comfort unless he is able to take up land. The average wage of a rouseabout is very low ?—I take it that the position is that parents are anxious that their boys should learn a trade that will enable them when they grow up to get their living. I have had a good deal of experience on this subject. We know that men in unskilled trades are paid a very low rate indeed. Through slackness of work I have had to do work in many branches of unskilled labour, and I know that unskilled labour is paid for at a very low rate indeed ; and I take it that that is the reason why parents have their boys taught something that will enable them to do skilled work if an opportunity occurs, besides being able to do unskilled work. The country workman is not in such a position as Mr. Buchanan imagines, because, though as a boy he earns 55., and is doing well, it does not follow that as a man he is going to do so. The wages paid to labourers in the country are very low. 29. Mr. Buchanan.] Have you in your mind that the country boy is not also learning a trade in spanking cows ? Is it not a fact that the country boy is learning something to enable him to go upon the land later on, after he has accumulated sufficient money from his wages? Is he not learning a trade equally with the boy who enters into indentures to learn a town trade ?—I take it that that question is quite beside the business that I came to give evidence on, but I am quite willing to answer it. As the position is now, the country boy is as well off as the boy in town ; but, if the conditions of the boy in town were improved, the town boy would have a far greater advantage. That is, if employers were to use legitimate means of producing without so much boy-labour. I believe the condition of the mechanic in town would be then much better than it is.

Tuesday, 2nd Octobee, 1894. Eobekt Hannah examined. 1. The Chairman.'] What is your name? —Eobert Hannah. 2. And your occupation ? —Boot importer and manufacturer, carrying on business in Wellington. 3. You have been called to give your opinion on the Master and Apprentice Bill, which, no doubt, you have given time and consideration to ?—As far as I can see there is nothing very objectionable in front of clause 10 of the Bill. 4. What objection do you see to clause 10 : " Eatio of wages of handicraft apprentices " ?—My objection to the percentage is that it is not in keeping with our trade. In the first place, we start our apprentices at 7s. 6d. According to the percentage you put down here, it would be an Irishman's rise to them :Itis a lower scale. As compared with our scale, it is ss. 7d. against 7s. 6d., Bs. against 10s., 14s. against 12s. 6d., 20s. against 155., 245. against 20s. I think our scale on the whole is a fairer scale than the one you have put forward. 5. Then, you think it is too low in the schedule? —It is too low and too high. The jump is too great. 6. What do you think would be the best way of fixing the scale ?—I do not think you could improve on the one we are working under now. I think it is a fair one. I have never heard any complaints, and I think it is recognised by the trade as being a fair one. 7. Would you have it fixed in the way you suggest by Act?—l would, decidedly. That is simple and understandable, both by the boys and parents, and not so complicated as this one in the Bill. Of course, any house or firm employing apprentices would really require a clerk to keep a set of books for them ; and I do not think the Legislature ever intended to cause such persecution. 8. The reason why we are asking the opinions both of the employers and employed is that we may avoid anything which may ultimately lead to the infliction of a wrong, with the view of, next session, bringing down a Bill which will fairly deal with the question. Our intention now is to get as much information as we can on the subject ? —As far as I am concerned I am at a loss to know why the Bill was introduced at all, because the indentures of the trade under which the boys are working now, I think, have worked satisfactorily to both apprentice and master. 9. Now, with regard to clause 11: " Wages of non-handicraft apprentices " ?—According to this clause every person must be indentured. 10. Yes, practically, although it is not intended to apply it that way. It is very difficult to say what " handicraft " means ?—lt means to us that you would have to indenture a packer, a sizer, or any girl or boy who would be able to receive a remunerative wage for twelve months. When they took up any portion of the trade that would be of use it would be right enough to indenture them. That clause alone in any factory of any magnitude would throw out from ten to twelve hands. 11. Then you would suggest that clause 11 be struck out ?—I should, of course, speaking impartially on the matter. 12. Clause 12 : " How wages to be paid " ?—lf you take the strict reading of that clause, really no other person than the master can pay them.