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124. Mr. Growther.] Had these share-lists anything about them to show that they were private property—any private marks, or anything of that kind—or were they piles of books available to everybody ?—They were a list of shareholders paid for by somebody other than the company. 125. The Chairman.] Do you know who got them printed ?—I cannot say positively, but I believe they were ordered to be printed by Mr. Voller on instructions frome some one else. Mr. Voller held meetings at Walters's hotel (private meetings), and these share-lists were used there. They were not available for any one else. 126. Mr. Growther.] Then, you would infer that the lists were private property ?—Yes, and available to those only who were of the " right colour," if I may put it so. 127. Mr. Sevan.] Where were they kept ?—ln a private room. 128. Dr. Findlay.] As a matter of fact, there were some available ? —Yes. 129. The Chairman.] Were you connected with the company when the Australian Mercantile Insurance Company, the Hanseatic Insurance Company, the Hamburg-Madgeburg Insurance Company, and the Accident Indemnity Company of Dunedin were acquired?—Yes. 130. Have you any idea as to whether any of the business of these companies resulted in profit or loss ?—I cannot say further than that at the time of the large fire in Thompson and Shannon's, in Wellington, the risks were reinsured with the treaty company, which turned out badly. 131. Dr. Findlay.] Do you know what was paid, or whether any consideration was received, for taking over these companies ?—The Australian Mercantile Union gave a percentage for admission into the company, I believe. 132. And the Hanseatic?—l cannot say. 133. The Hamburg-Madgeburg ?—I believe that we reinsured the unexpired portion of their risks, they allowing us the discount of 20 or 25, perhaps 30, per cent. 134. The Chairman.] The question is whether your company was wise or unwise in taking them over ? —That I cannot say. Witness (.to the Chairman) : The Fire and Marine Accident and Indemnity Company first acquired the business of the Accident Indemnity Company of Dunedin, and then came as a treaty company to the Equitable. The Equitable issued certain risks, and debited the Fire Marine and Accident Indemnity Company with the losses. The Equitable Company then drew on the Fire Marine and Accident Indemnity Company for £400, and the draft was dishonoured. We still continued to act with them as a treaty company until they became indebted to us to the amount of between £11,000 and £12,000. An action was then brought against them, and they submitted it to arbitration. I then went to Melbourne, taking with me the cash-books, ledgers, &c, to the number of about one hundred. We got an award for between £11,000 and £12,000, with costs. I cannot say how much of this has been paid. 135. Mr. Bevan.] I want to ask you about the 2,000 shares held by John Davie. Can you, of your own knowledge, say whether they belonged to one Franzen at one time, and were transferred to Mr. Davie ?—Yes, but I cannot say the date. 136. Did you consider Mr. Davie a responsible man to hold such a large number of shares ?—I have heard it said he was not a responsible person, but I cannot say of my own knowledge, only by hearsay. 137. Was Mr. Davie representing a syndicate?—l have heard so, but cannot say. 138. Did you know Franzen was a bankrupt ?—No. 139. Are you aware that Mr. Hogg transferred 300 of his own shares to Mr. Sinclair in order to qualify Mr. Sinclair to become a director^when at the same time the transfer-books were closed to other shareholders ?—The transfer-books were closed to all other shareholders when Mr. Sinclair took over these shares qualifying him for a seat on the Board. 140. The Chairman.] When was that? —It was about a couple of months before Messrs. Sinclair and Callan visited the Coast. 141. Mr. Bevan.] Do you remember anything about the transference of shares by the Misses Callender ?—The Misses Callender held 350 shares. They became bankrupt, but when the bankruptcy was annulled the calls were paid, and Mr. Maxwell, the general manager, became the transferee. 142. Do you remember a case brought by Mr. Lloyd against Mr. Voller?—Yes, Voller bought Lloyd's shares, but made a fuss afterwards when he found the calls were not paid. He brought an action in the Court against Lloyd to obtain a verdict. 143. Did you ever hear Maxwell say he held 450 shares in the company?—No. 144. Did you ever have life balance-sheets sent to you, or do you possess them?—l do not remember seeing these [produced]. I might have done, but Ido not remember. 145. How long would a stranger going into a business like the Equitable as manager require to take to make all inquiries and examinations to enable him to get a grasp of the business ?—That all depends on the character of the business. 146. The Chairman.] Do you know what time Mr. Maxwell spent in acquiring a knowledge of the business before taking it over? —No; I never saw him in the office. 147. But it would have been possible for him to be in a portion of the premises without your knowledge ?—Yes. 148. As a matter of fact, would not the knowledge which he obtained during his connection with the South British serve him in taking over the Equitable ? —I consider that he would require to visit the different centres where business was being done by the company to enable him to obtain a knowledge of block limits. 149. Mr. Bevan.] Was it customary to lock up the books in the strong-rooni at night ? —. The key was in the place, and anybody could obtain access to them,