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15. You are setting up a claim for the Government similar to that set up by the telephone companies in England and America, and that claim seems to be decided by the last decision in England at Leeds ? —That decision at Leeds was practically no decision. The Judge said he had no power to decide the case. It was not lost on its merits. [See Appendix A.] 16. He said that the Telephone and Tramway Company were each acting in accordance with their statutory rights, and the fact that the Tramway Company interfered with the Telephone Company did not warrant him in giving a decision against the Tramway Company ?—The Judge had no constitutional right to decide on that case, and. he had to dismiss the action. He had no law to guide him. 17. We have no law here. What right has the Government, excepting their prior occupation, to a monopoly of the earth circuit ? —That opens up another question altogether. 18. The Government telephones in England have all the earth circuit, and the evidence shows you that they are not subject to interference ?—Such is not the case. The telephone companies with the single wires are taking all the business away from them. The public are going to the telephone companies and leaving the Government in some places. I belong to a private telephone association in America. They have conducted a number of experiments with telephone cables, and it is a positive fact that, unless you follow with the same pair of twin wires in a system of underground cables, for instance, the two wires in the core of the first cable must be joined to the two same wires encased in the next junction cable, otherwise induction is set up at once. If you have two wires running side by side, and, through a mistake or carelessness, the two outside wires are joined in the next cable, the effect of non-interference is partially destroyed. The two wires of the one cable must, in their relative positions, be kept together throughout all the cables, otherwise you will get induction in these two wires by their being apart from each other. This has been proved beyond a doubt. This information has been sent to me from America, and is printed, but has not been published. 19. I notice that this information as to the effects of the action of the current on pipes has been entirely confirmed by Dr. Hopkinson; and he is a partisan for telephone companies ?—We know that when the current jumps from one conductor to another action is set up. We have Professor Barrett's evidence, also, on that point. 20. We have to bear in mind that the evidence you are producing is all on one side ?—I occupy an independent position. Professor Barrett also does. He is employed by the Corporation of Chicago to look after the interests of the citizens. His evidence may be looked upon as impartial. I know that injury will result to the Government if this tramway system is allowed to be proceeded with. I come to the Government and tell them so; and it is for the Government to say what they will do. I consider that the Tasmanian Government did a very wrong thing to allow the Tramway Company in that country to proceed in their operations so far as they did—allowing them to bring out their plant, and even to lay their lines, before they told them that they could not adopt the system, which they had got in working order. Some months ago, when the Hon. Mr. Ward and I were in Australia, we intended to go and have a look at the work. I warned the Hon. Mr. W T ard that before long this would happen in New Zealand ; and that was before I knew anything of the proposal of the Dunedin Tramway Company. We found that the work of laying the electric tramway in Tasmania would not be completed for a few months ; but I saw the Superintendent, who told me all that was going on. Shortly after I returned to New Zealand the Superintendent of Tasmanian Telegraphs wrote to me saying that he had tried running a return copper-wire instead of using the earth to eight or ten telephones, and it worked admirably. I wrote back, saying it was the McClure system, and had been tried in America to obviate the difficulty of currents interfering with the telephone system. It was found that it would not apply to large systems. I told him that, and have heard nothing further from him on the subject. I have been told that they have had a run of the tram-cars, just for trial; and I have no doubt that they would realise that the result would be either one thing or the other—either the tram must cease or the telephone. You can see that the Government of New Zealand is not at all in the same position. We have warned the tram people what the result will be, and they are now holding their hand to find out their position. I am neither an expert on one side or the other. I have had over forty years' experience, and have had twenty-seven years in the Telegraph Department. If I were in your employ [speaking to the Chairman] and knew that your property was to be damaged, you would look to me for information. 21. Ido not doubt that. Do you contend that your legal position is such that you have any right whatever to the use of the earth for your telephone ?—I think that, having had undisturbed possession for a number of years, we have a perfect right to claim the earth. There is another question that has cropped up: We have been using the earth as the return for all the telegraph circuits. I have no doubt that if the traction system is allowed to be introduced with the one-trolly system, it will disturb our telegraph system also. 22. Have you heard of the Haale case, in Germany ?—Yes ; the Government there have not protected themselves : we have here. 23. Mr. Lake.] Why should you?— You [speaking to Mr. Lake] .representing the people, have made it law. Ido not know on what grounds it was given (the action against the German Government), except that they had no Act to protect themselves like we have here. When the men came out here with the telephones we were prepared for'them. I think in equity that the German Government was perfectly right, and that the case should have been given in their favour. In Italy they have passed a law to the effect that all trams (electric) and electric light must have closed metallic circuits. 24. I understand that the Goverement insisted upon metallic circuits for telephones in Italy?— No ; such was not the case. 25. Did you read the Cincinnati case? That was a case where they had the single-trolly system in operation, and an application from the telephone company was heard and judgment given