I.—3a

Sess. 11.—1891. NEW ZEALAND.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE IN CONNECTION WITH PETITIONS RELATING TO THE NEW ZEALAND NATIVE LAND SETTLEMENT COMPANY, VIZ., THE PETITIONS OF HEMI WAAKA AND OTHERS, H. E. JOHNSTON AND OTHERS, AND HENRY GREEN AND ANOTHER. (For reports of Native Affairs Committee, vide pages 28 and 29 of I. —3.)

Fbiday, 3hd July, 1891. Mr. W. L. Bees, M.ELB., in attendance and examined. 1. The Chairman.] The Committee is ready to hear any statement you have to make, Mr. Bees, on the subject of this petition ?—To give a complete statement in detail of the various matters which enter into the history of the East Coast Native Land Company would be like going through several volumes. 2. Mr. Carroll.] If Mr. Bees would give the Committee a short statement explaining the several stages through which it has passed that would answer every purpose? —Yes; I will make a statement of the principal facts of the case ; that, I think, will do very well. In 1878 the Natives on the East Coast were anxious to deal with their lands as tribes—not to sell or lease their land as individuals. After holding various meetings they asked Wi Pere and myself to act with and for them, and they vested, I think, about 400,000 acres in trust in committees of their own, to work with Wi Pere and myself. Wi Pere and myself were to act, as a sort of trustees, with the committees named in the deed of trust for dealing with those lauds. After this was done, at an expense of about £10,000, these lands were conveyed—about 400,000 acres. But the Supreme Court decided that the Natives had no power to convey land in trust—that such a mode of dealing with land was not conveyed within the powers of the Native Land Act; so that the whole expense of the preliminary arrangements was useless. The Natives then, under my advice, determined to form an association or company with Europeans, who were to find all necessary means, and to which association the Natives were to assign their lands for the purpose of settlement—that is, throwing open their land, with good titles to provide for settlement. The company was formed. Among the provisional directors were Hon. Major Eopata (who is a member of the Legislative Council), Colonel Porter, Wi Pere, and several others living in the district. A party of settlers was brought out by Mr. G. M. Eeed in 1880, and in 1881 the first batch of settlers arrived in the colony. One of these was a gentleman who is at present a member and President of the Wellington Chamber of Commerce —Mr. Duncan. These were people possessing ample means to settle on these lands. But the Native Land Court refused to do anything; they refused to subdivide the land so that titles could be given in conformity with the arrangements that had been made between the Natives and these settlers. This party waited in Gisborne for three months, attending on the Land Court day after day, as well as the Native owners; but the Native Land Court declined to do anything. At last they separated, some going to Auckland, some to Wellington, and the rest to other places. A Bill was then brought into Parliament called the East Coast Settlements Bill, to enable Natives to have parliamentary sanction to give their own title by law to intending settlers. That Bill fell through. It was opposed. It was therefore impossible to get anything done. The company was then enlarged so as to enable a number of Europeans—more than those who had first joined —to subscribe £100,000 of capital, which was thought necessary to carry out the object of settling these lands. The Natives assigned the land to the extent of from 180,000 to 200,000 acres. In furtherance of this object, nearly £100,000 was expended. About £15,000 was paid to the Government by way of Native-land duty and stamp duty; nearly £20,000 was spent in surveys and other costs of that nature, together with the expense of Natives attending the Court; various expenses on subdivision for legal costs and interest on money. The whole of the costs, as I have said, came to about £100,000.- During the next two or three years —from 1880 to 1883-84—the attempts, all of them attended with expense, to get from the Native Land Court good titles under the existing state of the law were incessant. A Bill was introduced in 1883 (I think it was in 1883) to enable the company to make an arrangement with the Native tribes. That Bill was opposed by the then Native Minister (the Hon. Mr. Bryce) saying that if this Bill were to pass the government of the North Island must be handed over to this company. That Bill was withdrawn. It was not I—l. 3a.