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all they want to do is to lie down and rest and recruit their strength for the .next day s slavery. Now, Ido not think in a country like this—a young colony where we are looking for better things, and working for better tilings—l do not think we should ever allow the possibility—the prospect—ot such a state of affairs. You admit that you are willing — that you wish to pay a fair day s wages for a fair day's work. Very well, you have efficient officers to see that the fair day's work is done iv every department. As"far as I know —it has been admitted here —the officers are tully cognisant of the work that is being clone—that every man is continually under his officer s eye. You alluded to the " Government stroke "—and I may say I am very sorry that you alluded to it, because it puts us in an undignified position, to this extent: that we see there is some suspicion lurking in your minds that your employes, whenever possible, adopt the " Government stroke, which means, in other words, doing a " loaf." ■ . . ... Mr McKerrow : 1 would like to say that my remarks should not be taken as applying to railway workmen as a body : they should be taken to apply to all large bodies of workmen, wherever congregated I have observed that iv a large body of workmen getting together there is some opportunity of holding back, and, as every man has a lazy corner somewhere, he is apt to indulge it if he has an opportunity to do so. Mr Winter- You do not give a man credit for having an industrious as well as a lazy corner somewhere, and that a man may take as much pride iv turning out a day's work to the satisfaction of his officer, and be eager for praise, which we very rarely get. We sometimes have felt that, but never in my experience has a foreman said, " Well done ; you have done that well. Mr, McKerrow : Perhaps the lazy corner predominated there.—-(Laughter.) Mr. Winter : 1 have been eleven years in the service, and if there had been a lazy corner there it would have been discovered before this. Mr. McKerrow : It was only a joke. Mr Winter: If there is a lazy corner there may possibly be an industrious one. Most ol us have livers, and it is possible a man may hang back for an hour or two in the day when he does not feel well; but if that man thinks he has been lagging behind a little bit to-day he will pull up for that Ido not know of any man that would not rather do a fair day's work and receive or deserve the appreciation of his officer than be loafing about and laying himself open to the imputation of being a loafer, and being removed at the first opportunity. The visitors who come to the Government shop are all surprised at the beehive it represents. It is nothing but one huge mass of industry. They all admit it; they say they are surprised that there is not the slightest sign ot the ''Government stroke." The expression has been made many a time. Mr McKerrow :We appreciate what you say, but there is sometimes a great deal ot bustle, and very little work done. Ido not say it is so in the Government shops, but it is possible there can be a great deal of bustle and very little work. Mr Winter : We are speaking of the railway workshops now, and if there is a great deal o bustle and very little work your very efficient officers must see that the work is done, and they will call the men to account if it is not done. The men are all under the foreman's eyes, and in the fitting-shop at Addington, where I am, wo cannot move hand nor foot without the foreman seeing us. The foreman is an efficient officer; he is lynx-eyed, and sometimes I think he has eves on all sides, because nothing escapes him ; and, if he meets with anything which does not meet with his approval, he is not slow in letting us know. And it is pretty much so in other departments There is full discipline, and the " Government stroke "is simply out of the question ; and if it were not so I believe the inherent will of the men to do a fair day's work would obviate the ■'Government stroke" entirely. I think you believe, as well as I do, that we do not do the " Government stroke." I think you are quite satisfied about that. But as to the piecework, you stated that it would leave a man in such a, position that he would be tree of being under the boss's eye all the time. Mr. McKerrow: Yes, I said so. , .„ . Mr Winter- Now if an:an has piecework at remunerative prices he finds this job will paywell'arid he says, "I can hang back; I need not be afraid of my foreman, because I am on piecework " There'is the way open for the " Government stroke " directly. The man can hang back on the strength that he has a good price. But instead of that the department allows time and oneeighth to be made; but the argument still holds good. If a man has the price he has either got to ham' back and do the "Government stroke " or else make more money than he is likely to. receive, or; if he receives it the price will bo cut down. We have come to the conclusion, almost unanimously, that piecework is not good, and I hope you will look at the matter in the light we have looked upon it in, and see your way clear to abolish it. ' Mr Rohan: Of course, gentleman, as 1 feold you before, I am not well acquainted with the matter ; but if you acknowledge that a man should be paid a fair day's pay for a fair day-s work, what is the necessity, if you have a foreman to see the work is carred out, for piecework, 1 can see no real reason why you should retain piecework. You have the option, if a man is not a good workman of saying,' "We do not require your services." I cannot see why you should object to the abolition of piecework. The only thing, you say, is the " Government stroke." Mr. McKerrow : What I said was this: that piecework gives a sort ot stimulus to the workmen who are under it, and they lead on the rest of the work. Mr Boban- But look at the evils that arise from that. The evils are greater than the good, and those evils should be taken into account. For my part, I see no real reason why piecework should not be abolished. Yon yourself, sir, in the whole course of Mr. Winter s address, have not put one question to him which 'has affected, his argument, and, that being the case, you have no obiection-yourself to it being abolished ; as far as I can see, you ought to meet our views and say : " Well, gentlemen, we have officers to see that the work is carried out. The men are willing to work as you,' who represent the whole society, say they are ; we "will accede to your request."