D.—4

38

Mr. McKerrow : I do not think that. Mr. Winter : Well, it is pretty well admitted that of the two men he has the most muscular work. Mlf. McKerrow : But he " stands " a long time. Mr. Winter : So does the smith. Mr. McKerrow : Bub he only works eight hours a day. Mr. Winter: So does the smith. The strikers say, "If we are working with the smiths on piecework we represent a proportionate amount of work, because we have to earn it." Mr. McKerrow : I think that is hardly fair. I was just asking Mr. Eotheram, and he pointed out that in making wheels the striker is important, and is paid proportionately with the smith. The smith, of course, is the chief man, and, in the ordinary way, he, and not the strike]1, has the real merit of putting the work forward. Mr. Winter : And the smith receives higher wages ? Mr. McKerrow :Of course he does. He is the man of skill. Mr. Winter : If lie receives 10s. as a skilled man, and the striker gets 75., there is a great difference. Mr. McKerrow : What would you give him ? Mr. Winter : A fair proportion of all money over and above wages whilst working on piece. Mr. McKerrow : I am advised that the striker is an unimportant part of the production of the forge. He is the unskilled portion. Mr. Winter : And is the unskilled labourer unimportant ? Mr. McKerrow : It is unimportant as far as turning out the work. Mr. Winter: What would the skilled man be without muscular power. Mr. McKerrow : Well, he would not do very well, but a smith requires a long training as well. Any strong muscular fellow could be a striker in a short time. Mr. Winter: But suppose superior capacity receives superior wages : that is altogether apart from the question of extra hard work. The striker says, "I do not want to go any nearer to the smith's wages, but I want a fair proportion of the extra money he is making when on piecework." Mr. McKerrow : I admit there is a little show of reason in what you say. Ido not go so far as you do, but I admit there is weight in it. Mr. Winter : Even the smiths would rather that the strikers should be paid. But here, in Addington, an order was issued prohibiting, under pain of penalty, anyone giving a striker extra pay. If a smith gives his striker a portion of the money which he has made by his work the order has been issued that that smith will be punished. Mr. Botheram: I am not aware of that. Mr. Winter : Mr. Scott issued the order. Mr. Maxwell : It was not given by your order, Mr. Eotheram '? Mr. Botheram : No. As a matter of fact, I think Mr. Winter knows that it is not in operation. Mr. Winter: Ido not say it is now, but the smiths once received the order. Mr. Maxwell: Was it a written order ? Mr. Winter : No. The strikers felt aggrieved, and they appointed a certain number of their class to interview Mr. Scott. He told them he had no power, and would not allow it; and he sent orders to the foremen that he would strictly prohibit a smith paying a striker any extra money. Another case is this : that two men at a different rate of wages are put on to a job —one at 10s. a day, and the other at 9s. They are allowed to make time and an eighth (we are under the impression we can do no more). If the 10s. man makes the money it follows that the 9s. man must make a good deal more than time and an eighth. If the 9s. man makes more, than time and an eighth the price is cut down :so that the 10s. man cannot make time and an eighth. Certain jobs have been divided between two machinists working different classes of machines. The drilling work, for an instance, depends greatly on the nature and class of the machine. One man, having a machine siiitable for the work, can make fair money ; but another, with a machine less suitable, will fall behind —the one has to do the work, therefore, for the other to make the time up : yet they are on the same footing, and the work is divided between them. These are some of the principal incongruities of the system. Piecework also offers a premium for abuse to those who have the administration of il. Wagon repairs, for instance, are divided into classes —light and heavy. The foreman goes round a wagon, sees what is wanted, and tickets the wagon " light "or " heavy." Now, you cannon draw a broad line between the two classes. Some light repairs border very closely on heavy repairs, and vice versa, A man may get light repairs in which there is nearly as much work as in some heavy repairs, and the man with heavy " light " repairs will have to work considerably harder than the man who gets ordinary " light repairs. I make no imputation, but it just leaves the way open to any one man or men getting by accident a preponderance of this kind of work. Mr. McKerrow : But in a large establishment the thing would average out very well. Mr. Winter : There are a number of things to weigh. But it is bad in principle, and bad in practice, and we are instructed to ask you to abolish it entirely. Mr. Elvines : I speak of piecework in general ; but not particularly in connection with the Addington shops, because lam not really acquainted with them. I have only been there on a short job in the works department, and have not been able to gather any information. However, Mr. Winter is on the job, and to give the name of piecework to what he indicated is simply absurd. As far as regards the general.idea of what piecework is, it is where everything is constituted on a scale agreed to by both sides. The shoemakers, for instance, agree to a rate of pay that shall be given for the driving of so many dozen of nails and the cutting of so much leather. You cannot possibly do this —contract work, 1 was going to call it. Mr. McKerrow : Job.