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363. Mr. Charles Pharazyn, in big evidence, said he would allow no hunting at all: he saw no use in it: has Mr. Pharazyn had any experience ?—None himself, with dogs. He only knows from what his managers have told him. Ido not think that he has had the same experience that I have had on this particular thing. 364. You live in Wairarapa? —Yes. 365. The fact is that Mr. Pharazyn's property is clear?— Yes. 366. Was it clear to begin with ?—No ;it was very bad. He put up a short piece of rabbitfence with Mr. Riddiford, and the run got very bad. Babbits were numerous upon both sides of the fence. This made us think then that fencing was no good. 367. Mr. Buchanan.] I was not here when you commenced your evidence : how many of the natural enemy did you turn out ?—About 120 to 140. 368. Taking your neighbour's land into account, about how many were turned out in your district ? —About 1,000 to 1,200 ferrets, 300 stoats and weasels, and a lot of cats. Mr. Martin turned out more than anybody else. 369. How many did Mr. Waterhouse turn out?— Six. 370. You are acquainted with Brancepeth? —Yes. 371. What is the acreage? —About 60,000 acres. 372. Have they turned out ferrets ? —Yes. 373. How many?— About 1,000 or 1,200. 374. Do you know of any other settlers in the district who turned out ferrets ?—I think about 1,500 were turned out in the north part altogether—Messrs. Maunsel, Hawkins, Andrews, and Elder, and others. 375. They had men breeding ferrets by contract, had they not?— Yes. 376. Have you any reason to say that the number turned out in North Wairarapa were limited to 1,500 or 2,000 ?—No; only from an estimate I made. 377. How do you account for the ferrets doing so little good in North Wairarapa compared to the South ? —Because they were trapped in the North. I think some four hogsheads of traps went up to North Wairarapa, which entirely accounts for the state of the rabbits there now. The more traps, the more rabbits. 378. Well, taking my neighbourhood, for instance : you know I have been using traps?— Yes. 379. Do you know to what extent? —I know you were trapping some bush country. I regarded you as the only trapper in our district. You are aware that I have always said that any person using traps commits a penal offence. 380 Can you name any others who trapped to any extent ? — Messrs. Hawkins, Stuckey, Whatman, and Hoskings. 381. Then, coming south, to my district? —Mr. Beetham, I think, traps a little, but I am not certain. I know of no one else below you. 382. But in the big block of country : do you know of any one except myself?—No; not below you. 383. Does it not seem extraordinary that in a smaller block in South Wairarapa, where 1,000 ferrets were turned out, the rabbits are much more numerous than in the large block, where only 1,500 were turned out : how do you account for it ? —I do not quite understand this question; but you have been using rabbit-fencing, and we did not: none of us believed in it then. I might also say here that Mr. Huddleston, from the Lakes, told me that there was some ran down South having 500 dogs at one time. These dogs scattered the bladder-worm all over the district, and the rabbits disappeared. They have increased again, because the dogs were sent away, and fresh hordes of rabbits came in from the back country. 384. Are you aware that Mr. Beetham employed, or, rather, had, 200 or 300 dogs ? —Yes; I think he had ; and I am also aware that he caught a great number of diseased rabbits. 385. Speaking of fluke : you have given the Committee to understand that river-water is necessary ?—Yes ; moisture, is necessary. 386. Then, how do you account for some of the dry places in Australia being so much affected with it ? —You mean the sheep-fluke? Ido not know ; I cannot explain it. There must, of course, be some favourable circumstance attending it, otherwise it would not spread. Sheep-fluke generally spreads on low river-bottoms, and is a very virulent disease, although the animal at first fattens upon it. So the rabbit thrives when it first has bladder-worm. But this rabbit disease does not harm sheep in England or America. Ido not think it can do so. Sheep-fluke, though, may decimate the rabbit. Because settlers see a diseased rabbit healthy and fat they think the disease no good; they forget that sheep fatten for three or four months upon its own fluke disease, but when it once falls away it never recovers again. The same thing occurs with the rabbit. 387. Mr. Duncan.] I understand from you that you would advocate spending money in some other way than erecting wire fences ? —Yes; you will unfailingly put the rabbits down by following the measures I have adopted. 388. Mr. Laivry.] Then, I understand you believe more in the united efforts by the settlers themselves : you think such a course better than acting according to the Government Inspectors' instructions?— Yes ; I bslieve the Government Inspectors are doing a great amount of harm. 389. Was Mr. Pharazyn a member of your voluntary Babbit Board?— No'; he was not. He was in England. 390. And you have been successful in exterminating rabbits in South Wairarapa, while, on the other hand, they have increase?! in the North ? —Yes; that is so. 391. Are the conditions as favourable in one part as in another?— Yes. 392. And if they had carried out the same measures they would have been equally successful ? —Yes. I will guarantee to clear all my neighbours in the North Wairarapa if they will follow out my measures—that is, with united action.