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366. In other words, to give him railway facilities ?—Yes; first he had a difficulty in getting a siding. He offered to make it at his own expense. Pie persisted, and a siding was conceded to him. Then the authorities would not give him a sufficient quantity of trucks. Then the owners of steamers would not take his stuff away. He came up to Wellington and bought a steamer—the " Oreti "•— and then, when he was equipped and equal to meet them, they gave him his own price, and bought him out. As to the Coal-pit Heath Mine, that was the first mine that the syndicate bought out. It had belonged to Captain Williams, who was a man of capital and had steamers of his own. Taylor was also in a very good position. 367. Mr. Hutchison.] Which was his?—The Coal-pit Heath. It was a strong company as far as the working of the mine was concerned. It had every appliance for the purpose. I know this from the miners of the Association, and from the miners themselves on the spot. 368. Mr. Feldivick.] Are there any trucks?—The trucks were lying idle; they refused to give Kilgour trucks. I clo not know why. He had not sufficient influence with the authorities. • 369. Mr. Withy.] Can you say whether the output of coal has decreased? —The output of coal has gone down 30 per cent. As to the Coal-pit Heath, they were in a position to supply it. At all events, neither as regards steamers nor as regards working the mine has any capital been expended. The only expenditure of capital has been in connecting the Coal-pit Heath and the Wallsend shaft underground. As regards capital for machinery for winding or ventilation, nothing of that kind has been done. That was the end of the Coal-pit Heath. Then, as regards the Brunner Mine (Mr. Kennedy's) : when the Coal-pit Heath was taken away, feeling that the combination would be rather strong for him, he sought to extend his mine as a company, and went Home for that purpose. So far as getting bottoms to take away the coal was concerned, that was arranged. On his return to the colony his mine was purchased up too. The men were reduced, and the latest development of that mine is that the miners have been offered to take the blocks out at reduced rates. 370. The Chairman.] You mean the pillars ?—Yes; instead of working the mine the men have offered, at a reduced price, to take out the pillars. 371. Mr. Feldivick.] Does that indicate the closing of the mine ? —lt indicates that for the present it is to be hung up. To prove that there has been a falling-off in the output, I will first take the number of miners. I was waited upon before I left to come to Wellington by one of the chief men of the Association of Miners. He said the Association had come to the conclusion that the reason why a large number of miners had to go away from the district was because of this amalgamation or combination. That was, he said, the chief reason the companies, prior to this, had not power to do as they were since doing. Had it not been for this amalgamation of leases, rights, and titles to the ground, the output of coal would have been greater. The output of coal was a condition of the original leases; and with that object it would have been insisted on that the owners should have the requisite number of men employed to put out coal. After these purchases, however, there was a new title applied for, and has since been granted. It has been completed, I believe, within the last eighteen months. This title, I believe, is at variance with the titles under the original leases. 372. Mr. Withy.] To which of them does that apply ?—lt applies to the whole three. 373. The Chairman.] To four, taking in the original Wallsend Mine ?—Yes. There is one serious matter which affected the output of the Wallsend Company. To them was given the right to purchase the freehold in the centre of their lease. 374. How much —150 acres ? —l5O acres of this coal. 375. That was given in the time of Mr. Rolleston, who was Minister of Mines ? —lt was at variance with the original lease. It was on, at all events, somewhere towards the close of the Rolleston and Hall Government. The Government gave them, as I have stated, 150 acres of freehold right in the centre of their lease, which included their shaft and workings. Suppose the Government to enforce the output from the outside, it was no good to any one else. The whole township—the very centre of the main body —was included in this freehold. They gave this freehold for a very small sum of money. 376. Mr. Hutchison.] Would you state the year ?—IBB4. 377. That was the Wallsend ?—Yes. 378. The Chairman.] It might have been before that ? —lt may have been 1883 or 1884. 379. It was before Sir John Hall left the Government ?—Yes. 380. I think that was in 1882 ?—Yes. 381. Mr. Withy.] That belongs to the combination ? —Yes. 382. The Chairman.] To the Westport share of the combination?—Yes; I hardly think the Westport would give over their rights to that freehold. 383. Then, it is a part of the Westport Company's rights ?—Yes. I might be at liberty to state to the Committee my impression as to a statement made by Mr. Mills before this Committee. I have heard him state here that the wharfage-accommodation of Greymouth was not sufficient, the Committee will ask for the number of steamers that last year —1888, from the 31st January to the 30th June—visited the harbour, and the number that came there during the corresponding period of this year—lßß9, from the 31st January to the 30th June —you will find that in the latter year— this year—it is 50 per cent. less. If there was accommodation for 50 per cent, more last year it is there now : the wharf has not been changed ; the water on the bar has been much better this last six or eight months than it ever was before. Then, as regards the demands for coal, I think lam correct in stating that, as regards manufactures, while the colony has lost a little of her population, manufacturing has increased fe and, with the increase of manufactures, their coal requirements would also increase. Some time ago Mr. Kennedy, who had made some arrangements with the company, complained that he was not receiving justice as regards the steamers necessary for taking away the coals from Greymouth—that is to say, that the arrangement made between him and the Union Company had not been carried out fairly to him. The result of that was that the company said,