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security should not have been taken; but, as a hotel security, it is a good one. The amount of the loan is, I think, £3,500. The land alone, exclusive of buildings and improvements, is worth about £3,000. 105. Mr. Allen.] Who appointed the Sinking Fund Commissioners?—The Board appointed them. Another point: If the Committee has the Bill before them they will observe the Bill seeks power to invest the funds not expended on works.

Thursday, 19th July, 1888. Mr. J. Thomson further examined. 106. The Chairman.] Have you ascertained how far the depth of water at the end of the extension will be maintained along the pier? —The depth of water 370ft. back from end of the 1,160ft. extension would be 12ft. 107. Mr. Whyte.] Is that to the sand, or to the rock ?—To the sand. 108. Is there any reasonable probability of that sand disappearing?—As far as we have gone with the work the sand has been scouring out all the way. 109. Will the scour continue all the way as you go out ?—The scour will decrease slowly. 110. Is it probable that you will get a depth to the rock ? —No. I think, however, we shall get 2ft. more than I have given in my report. 111. The Chairman.] In 370ft., then, there is a difference in depth of ljft.?—Yes. 112. What is the length of the " Australia " ?—I do not know. 113. Mr. Boss.] How do you expect it will scour below 13ft. if no wash is exercised below 12ft. ?—I do not think there is any prospect of its shoaling up. 114. Mr. Whyte.] Ido not think you understand what Mr. Boss is driving at. How do you expect the scour to continue when the wave-power will not exercise an influence ?—By the body of water from the river being confined by the breakwater. 115. Mr. Boss.] Is there a large volume of water in the river ?—There is a large tidal body. 116. Is there any basin behind ? —From the two rivers at the back. The Taruheru and Waimata unite, forming the Tauranganui. 117. Mr. Whyte.] On the question of the harbour of refuge : Can a harbour of refuge be constructed at this point as cheaply as at any other of the proposed points ? —Yes. You would not get deep water so soon. 118. But for the same amount of money approximately ?—You would get it sooner on this site than on the Stony Point site. 119. Mr. Boss.] Would you get it as soon as by Sir John Coode's plan?—By Sir John Coode's plan you do not get an increasing depth at all. It is a complete w7ork in itself. 120. By his plan would it cost as much to construct a harbour of refuge as by your plans ?— Sir John Coode's plan is estimated to cost £245,000. By an expenditure of £300,000 a depth would be attained on the present authorised site of 30ft. to the sand. 121. Mr. Whyte.] Can you construct a harbour of refuge on your present plans as cheaply as on Sir John Coode's plans ? —Yes. 122. Mr. Tanner.] We were told by Mr. Ormond the loan was raised on the distinct contract for a particular work. Can you tell me what that work was ? Is it that plan ? Because the contention was raised that the plan was departed from?—l do not know what the loan was raised upon. I think the Act says, at or near the site. There is one point, that Sir John Coode's plan was never approved by Government—it was merely what you might call a suggestion. The Chairman: The Engineer has already explained to us that Sir John Coode's suggestion was made on information given him at the time, which was subsequently found to be incorrect. Mr. Boss : That only applies to the open work. The Chairman : Just so. Witness : I might say I have had a good deal of connection with seafaring matters. 123. Mr. Boss.] Were you employed as engineer in the Old Country?—Yes, at the Belfast Harbour works. I graduated at Queen's University as Bachelor in Civil Engineering. [Witness produced his certificate of degree at Queen's University; and also certificate of " Companion as Only Mate," and indenture of five years' apprenticeship at sea from 1863.] Mr. William Sievweight examined. Mr. Sievwright: lam Chairman of the Gisborne Harbour Board. 124. The Chairman.] We w 7ant to get information, Mr. Sievwright, as to how far the House will be justified in allowing the Board to expend a further sum of £40,000 ? —I should say the first reason would be that if this is not done the works at present constructed would be of no use—we should have to rate ourselves, perhaps, a little less to pay for what is of no benefit to us ; w 7hereas, if the works were extended to the distance proposed, they would be useful for shipping, though we might have to rate ourselves a little more, and we would be able to derive a revenue from the extended works. 125. What would be the amount of dues you would receive in consequence of the extension ?— That is a little difficult to arrive at. Upon an estimate, if we exacted a moderate charge for tonnage, we should get £2,000 per annum from tonnage-rates and increased wharfage-dues. 126. Mr. Whyte.] Would there not be a very large trade created in stock if they could be put on board the steamers without lightering ?—A very considerable trade ; because at present it is an extremely difficult matter to ship stock. They get dreadfully bashed about on the boat, and often the tide does not allow of their getting off at the time; and they are taken backward and forward, and then perhsfps have to be put out in the fields.