3

I.—3d.

lion. Mr. Ballance : The Court did hear him. I have no doubt but Taonui kept on persisting until it was regarded as'comtempt. Major Jackson : They would not open the case for him. Hon. Mr. Ballance : No doubt he kept on persisting until the Court intimated disapproval; and he was eventually arrested for contempt. 28. Mr. Carroll.] Who was the interpreter?—Grace. 28a. Who was the Government Commissioner? —Grace. 29. The Chairman.] Not the same Grace ? —No; his brother. 30. Mr. Carroll.] Who was acting on behalf of the Ngatitmvharetoa ? —Lawrence Grace. 31. He that was member?—Yes. 32. The Chairman.] They were three brothers—the three Graces?—Yes. 33. One being member for the district ?—Yes. 34. The other two, one being Native Agent and Land Purchase Commissioner, and the other interpreter to the Court ?—Yes. 35. Mr. Carroll.] Had the Government any interest in that land—Tauponuiat.'a Block--Yes. 36. Are you quite clear as to the portions of the block to which claims were made? —I am not quitD clear which part they claimed ; but I heard it from outsiders. 37. Was Mr. Grace the Government Agent at the time the Court was sitting?—Yes. 38. Was it he who gave the money to the Natives ?—Yes. 39. Were the Government paving money to the Ngatituwharetoas and the Ngatiraukawas ? —Yes. 40. Were these the people to whom the Tauponuiatia Block was awarded ? —Yes. 41. Was the land awarded to the people at that time unawarded before by the Court?—Yes. 42. Is Mr. Grace son-in-law 7 to Te Heuheu? — Yes; he has married Te Heuheu's daughter. Another of the Graces is also married to a relative of Te Heuheu. 43. Is that the interpreter?—John Grace is the interpreter; William Grace is the Government Agent; and Lawrence Grace was the member. 44. Is Te Heuheu the chief to whom this land was awarded ?—Yes. 45. Major Jackson.] You stated first that the wife of Lawrence Grace was the one admitted in the claim. William Grace has a wife: was she also admitted in the claim? — Yes; they were admitted as claimants. 46. Has John Grace a wife ?—Yes. 47. Was she admitted in the claim?—Yes. 48. Then, the three wives of the three Graces were admitted in the claim ?—Yes. 49. The Chairman.] Are they not women of great rank ?—Yes. 50. Were they entitled to be admitted? —In those places, where they had a right. 51. Hon. Mr. Ballance.] Is not William Grace's wife related to Rewi? —Yes, she is related to Bewi. 52. Is she related to him on the Ngatiraukawa or the Ngatimaniapoto side?—Through the Ngatimaniapoto. 53. Is she not more Ngatituwharetoa than Ngatiraukawa?—She is more closely related to Ngatiraukawa. 54. If they succeeded in getting their names inserted, would she have been entitled because she was a Ngatiraukawa ?—lt would have been right to admit her claim to those portions which she had a right to. 55. Mr. Taipua.] Was Rewi admitted?—No. 56. As a claimant?—No. 57. Major Jackson.] Was it through Rewi she claimed or through the others?—l have alreadysaid that the three Graces excited our suspicion by the way they were conducting matters. 58. What I asked you was whether she claimed through Rewi or the others ?—I do not know. 59. Mr. Taipua.] Was it through Mr. Grace that her name was admitted to these blocks?—l cannot say whether it was through his influence. 60. Mr. Taiwhanga.] What year was it that the Court sat ? —lBB5 :in December. 61. Is not this land under the control or within the border of the King Country?—Yes. 62. Do you know if there was a largo meeting held in 1886 in the Waikato?—Yes. 63. Were you there ?—No. 64. Did you not hear that they made application to Mr. Ballance to have the surveys of that block stopped ?—Yes ; I did receive a letter that you sent word to stop the surveys. 65. Do you know the reason of my asking Mr. Ballance to have these surveys stopped ?— Yes. 66. What did you gather from my asking Mr. Ballance to have the surveys stopped ?—I quite agreed with you. 67. Did I not explain to Mr. Ballance that it was quite contrary to the provisions of the Treaty of Waitangi?—Yes ; I understood it so. 68. Mr. Taipua.] Were you included in the first notice that was given in the Gazette ? —Yes ; it was our Committee that included me, because they knew that I was principal owner in that portion of the block which belonged to us. 69. Who were the members of the Committee that included you ?—Hare, Poihipi, Hohepa Ruruka, Tehuiatahi, Matuahu, Paurini, Tamahiki. 70. Did they include your name?—Yes; and when I heard of their second meeting I was absent again. I was not at the first meeting. I was absent from the meeting of Ngatimaniapoto; the second meeting of their Committee was in reference to the external boundary of the Tauponuiatia Block. Some of the old chiefs were there; that was the occasion when they asked for an investigation of the external boundaries.