1.— 5.

after their business. What is the custom in the other colonies ?—There they have the seat of Government at the principal centres, and they are differently situated to New Zealand. 249. The Chairman.] But the difference in circumstances between New Zealand and Victoria simply means sending away 7 a hundredweight or so of printed matter by. steamer instead of by rail. Are there any first-class printing offices in Melbourne? —Yes. 250. Also a Government Printing Office? —Yes. 251. Which goes to show that a Government establishment must exist even there?—Yes. 252. What, in your opinion, is the class of work which the Government, as you put it, have no right to do at all? —Books:'* 253. Name some ? —I saw some of a private nature. 254. Mr. Dargaville.] Brinted for private individuals? —Yes, I think so. 255. Could you name any?—"Savage Life in Polynesia," for instance. Ido not remember the names of the others; but there was a long list of them. 256. Any Maori works?—Yes, I think so. 257. Mr. Bruce.] The works printed there are of a scientific nature, and if the Government were not to assist the authors a lot of information would not have come to light as at present ? —I think some of it would have come to light. 258. The Chairman.] It occurs in trade that there are corrections to be made?—Yes. 259. Now, would the Government have to pay for these?—No, not in the forms I have been speaking of, because they are not changed. 260. And you agree that a Government Office is necessary ?—Yes. 261. But, according to you, it should be limited. Where are the men to come from for session work? —I may answer that by asking, where do they come from now ? 262. Is the railway work now let by contract? —Yes; the whole of the books and forms, &c, are tendered for.

Saturday, 25th July, 1885. Mr. Gilbert Carson re-examined. 263. The Chairman.] We asked you, Mr. Carson, to go over the Government Printing Office, and tell us what you thought of the plant, &c. Will you make us a short statement on the subject? —I have been through the office. Everything seemed to me to be in fair condition. Some of the machinery is old, but there are a number of fairly-new machines suited to the work. 264. Will you specify the machines which are unsuited to the work?—l do not say unsuited. Some few are old, but they are suited to the work. 265. There are some without flyers, are there not ?—Yes. I did not take a note of them, but Mr. Leary did. I might say that in an office of that description there is not the necessity for complicated machinery that there is in a newspaper office. I have seen in one newspaper office in New Zealand a machine that must have cost as much as them all put together. In a newspaper office with a large circulation speed is the first consideration. 266. Did you look at the guillotines ? —Yes. 267. Could they be improved upon ?—Yes; I think one could be. But there are always improvements being effected. 268. I ask these questions because they bear to some extent upon the evidence given by other witnesses ? —The question of space affects the matter materially. It is difficult to put in new machinery. 269. Is that all you wish to say as to plant?—l think so ; that is, speaking generally. There is one large machine there—a recent purchase—which was not working when I went over the office. I believe there is not power to drive it during the session. I asked Mr. Didsbury about that machine. He says it is made available for printing the statutes as soon as the session is over. It was, I believe, originally procured by a Christchurch office, and Mr. Didsbury purchased it for £300. Its cost would be about £700. I suppose he could sell it for £500 if it were not required. 270. There is one question, Mr. Carson, which I hardly care to put to you, as it is of a somewhat pointed and unpleasant nature ; but as it was put to some of the experts examined yesterday it may as well be put to you. Would there be any possibility or probability of collusion amongst tenderers if the work were put up to tender ?—That is a broad question, which applies to all kinds of tendering. I think it is more likely to occur for this than for any other kinds of work, because there are only a few offices in a position to go in for large contracts. If the work were to be given out very largely there would be only a very few offices in a position to compete, and they could easily arrange matters. If the work were such that thirty or forty offices could compete then there could be no collusion. 271. Can you tell us what would be likely to happen, suppose the House decided to adopt the tender system ? Would there be any probability of the tenders for the first time being extremely low, and then, after the Government Printing Office was to some extent broken up, of their being exceedingly high ? —I think so; but it would depend very much upon what work was given out. 272. We asked the experts who were examined yesterday to tell us what class of work they thought should be given out to tender, and they gave it as their opinion that a number of the stock forms, such as these, should be given out. [Court forms, Customs forms, &c, exhibited before Legislative Council Printing Committee produced.] Would you recommend that class of work to be given out to private contract ? —I think they would be much better done by the Government Office. 273. Is not that really the profitable part of the Government printing?—That depends. If you were to call for tenders for this kind of work, it would be at per thousand for the job. Where work is profitable to contractors is when " fat" work like this occurs in the middle of a job. 274. These are standard forms, which require no alteration. They can all be stereotyped?— Yes ; and by so doing there is a large saving. A job like that is first set up in type, then

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