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15. That is a matter that the Native Minister will tell you more about; he is responsible for that. Do you say you do not approve of this Bill ?—You, Mr. Ormond, can see for yourself its deficiency in some respects. Why do you ask me about these clauses seeing that you are aware yourself that there are some clauses in the Bill which are not good ? 106. The object of this Committee is to inquire and see how far this Bill might be made useful. It is our present object to get an opinion from you upon the matter?—My sincere wish is that prosperity may come to the Government of the colony; that the railway should be made. We will give the land for the railway and for the railway stations. This is my contribution; this proves my love to the undertaking. I want to know what return the Maoris are to get. We show our love to Europeans; what return will they make for our giving our land for the railway and the railway stations ? 107. Will you inform the Committee if the Natiyes are willing to treat with the Government for the cession of the land along that railway for settlement ?—I have already had conversation with Mr. Ballance. I have explained to him that the Maoris are a very tractable people ; that they are easy to deal with, and will not drive hard bargains. If Maori suspicions had not been created in the past they would have been very easy to deal with. Mr. Ballance did not ask me to give the land for the railway and the stations without payment. That idea emanated from ourselves, without asking for compensation or payment. The Maoris did not ask for the railway, and Ido not think I should be asked to state whether the Maoris will give the land along the line. 108. Not to "give;" but you are asked whether the Maoris will treat with the Government for the cession?— This is not the time for going into that question. The Natives are suspicious, and are on their guard against others. 109. I will go back to my first question ; I think you might answer that. It is :Do you think that this Bill will facilitate the settlement of land so as to promote the settlement of the country ? —I think your question is a very proper one, but I would like carefully to consider before I answer it. You have hedged me round, and if Ido not make a very careful answer I will be caught. I do not know whether I should answer that question or not. It is a very good question to ask. 110. From our point of view it is a very big one for me to ask ?—I know it is a very important matter. I know that if lam not careful you will meet me by other arguments. lam deliberating in my own mind whether I should answer the question. 111. Would you tell the Committee (if you have a difficulty about that) whether the Native mind would be in favour of selling for settlement or leasing for settlement ?—No doubt some Maoris will sell and others lease; but Maoris want to be perfectly clear before taking either of these steps; they want the law to be clear and satisfactory before they take one step or the other. 112. I would ask you again whether you see your way to answer the larger question?—l would like to wait until to-morrow before answering that question. 113. Hon. Mr. Ballance.'] I would like to ask Wahanui a question. I think the question has been too indefinite, and might be put in a clearer way so that he would understand it better. I would ask : If the land were through the Court, would the owners of the land on both sides of the railway be likely to sell or lease to Europeans, or both.— [Mr. Ormond : That is not what I meant. I was speaking from a much larger point of view] ? —I think it very likely the Natives would agree. I think they might. 114. Mr. Ormond.'] I must ask him now a question or two on this subject as he has referred to it—namely, with respect to this railway and its effect upon the land in the neighbourhood of the railway in connection with this Bill. Do you know, Wahanui, that the building of that railway has been agreed to mainly for the purpose of getting the country settled ; entirely for the purpose of getting the country settled ?—Who agreed to it ? 115. The Europeans in voting the money to pay for it?—l do not understand that. I did not hear that that was the reason. 116. Have you never understood or heard that the Government and people of the House have agreed to that, believing that the Natives would treat with them for the cession of the land alongside of it ?—I did not know that the railway was to be made with the object or with the under- ■ standing that the land was to be settled on each side. I thought it was to connect two places, so far as to enable people to come from one end of the Island to the other. I have now heard for the first time that there is another object in view, and that the" Europeans look on the land on each side of the railway as having become their own. What I mean is this : I never understood before that the object Europeans had in consenting to that railway being made was that the Maoris would give or dispose of land on each side of it, or agree to such land being settled, or that the real object was the settlement of the land on each side. 117. Do you not recognize that the railway will give enormous value to the land beyond its present value to the railway?—l do not know that it would have that effect at all. 118. If it would have that effect, would you not think that it would be a fair thing that the Natives should assist in the disposal of their land, so as to obtain settlement along the line ?—I like to laugh over that question a good while before I answer it. If that railway is being made for the ■benefit of the Maoris, then, I say, it is better to stop it; if it is restricted to the Maoris, then let it be stopped. 119. But you said just now that you were anxious to assist in the progress of the country and in settlement ? —Aye. 120. Will it not be assisted by this method of proceeding, making the railway and settlement taking place along it ?—You keep constantly asking me about land on either side of this railway. I have given'land for the railway, and I have given land for the stations; yet you keep asking me about land on each side. I ISave no fault to find with the direction of your questions. If I were the sole owner of these lands I would answer the whole question at once; I should be in a position to do so.