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there was no legal question arising out of it to submit to me. I simply attended and considered the matter as one of the Cabinet. 108. From your experience, did you consider Sir Julius Vogel had any claim on the colony for his services ?—I concurred with the rest of the Cabinet that he had not. There was no division of opinion in the Cabinet so far as I recollect. His claim rested a good deal upon the question of the Five-million Loan, and Mr. Hall, I understood, never intended it should he included. Sir Julius Vogel maintained that he was entitled to commission on that loan. I have never had any reason to alter the opinion arrived at at that time. The matter caused a great deal of consideration and some trouble with the Cabinet. I think there was a desire to consider it fairly, but the Cabinet could not see that there was any ground for Sir Julius A^ogel's claim in respect of this Five-million Loan. 109. Sir Julius Vogel appears to have wished Ministers to bring his claim before the House ?— Ido not recollect that; it may have been so. 110. About 1881 you succeeded to the Premiership?—Yes; I was Premier during the greater part of 1882 and 1883. 111. Did Sir Julius Vogel make any claim while you were Premier?—Not that I recollect; there may have been some correspondence; but Ido not recollect any. 112. The claim was understood to be kept alive by Sir Julius Vogel?—l could not say. Ido not recollect any correspondence to that effect. 113. Do you remember the circumstances of Sir Julius Vogel being relieved from both these agencies he refers to? —I recollect its being done, but the matter did not come specially under any department of mine. Everything I think appears in the papers. I speak only from recollection ; but I concurred in all that was done. Sir Julius Vogel: I would first ask, as the point has been referred to several times, if there is any doubt in the minds of the Committee as to the claim having been kept alive throughout. Major Atkinson states that it was; and I would point out that it was kept alive during the time I was Agent-General; and, after that, I told Sir Francis Dillon Bell, wheil he came Home, that I would not relinquish my right to claim from Parliament and from the Government. I afterwards wrote to Major Atkinson when I came out from England to the same effect ? The Chairman : I think me may consider that proved. 114. Sir Julius Vogel (to Sir F. Whitaker).] I would ask you, if you can, to suppose yourself in my position at Home, and give me your opinion of these telegrams, relieved from the fact of your being in office in Nov/ Zealand. When Sir John Hall acceded to office in November, 1879, he took up the same line as Sir George Grey with regard to its being objectionable that I should be AgentGeneral and director of the New Zealand Agricultural Company ; and he telegraphed to me on the 3rd November, as follows : "Wire names late Government knew you assisting organize company. Because statement respecting this knowledge, reasonable time allowed you arrange retire. Present Government agree inexpedient you remain director, or engage Home politics." To which I replied, " Stout, certainly, and, best my belief, Macandrew, Ballance. Cannot name time resign. Shareholders w-ould think it unfair entertain such intention now." Do you consider that I did otherwise than state respectfully my absolute refusal to resign the directorship of the Agricultural Company ? —When Sir George Grey's Government went out of office and the Hall Government came in, this question was discussed, and the view taken by the previous Government that you should resign this directorship was also taken, as I said, by the Hall Government. That was communicated to you, and at the same time you were told you would be allowed a reasonable time to resign. 115. To which I replied this answer: "Cannot name time resign"?—l recollect that; and it was considered, and agreed that you must resign within a reasonable time. 116. I ask you to consider it not from your point of view as a member of the Cabinet, but from my point of view at the time. Had I not signified that I was not prepared to resign ?—No ; I did not understand that. I would simply understand that you could not name a time —that yon .accepted the resignation—part of it—but could not name a time for the resignation to take place. There does not seem to be anything in the telegram to show that you would not resign. On the . contrary. I would infer from it that you would resign, but that you could not at that moment name a time for so doing. 117. Would you be so kind as to read the last part of the telegram, and say if you are still of the same opinion : " Am willing take Loan Agency " ?—But this applied to your directorship, not to the Agent-Generalship. It was the Agricultural Company the resignation had reference to. 118. Then, you look upon the telegram as indicating my intention to resign from the Agricultural Company ?—I certainly infer from this telegram that all you required was that you should have some time before your resignation was sent in. You go on to say, " Shareholders would think it unfair entertain such intention now." 119. I would like you to read the last part of the telegram: "Am willing take Loan Agency, payment by percentage, and act Agent-General without salary long as suits Government. Beply." If you do not mind looking at it from my point of view, will you give me your opinion on this ? I sent that telegram offering to hold the Agent-Generalship without salary, and to take the ',*"Loan Agency with payment by commission, and bearing in mind that there was then this Fivemillion Loan being negotiated, and no other apparent business at all near at hand, is it not natural to suppose, I ask, that when I sent that telegram it was in my mind that commission on the Fivemillion Loan, either for negotiation or conversion, would be part of the remuneration I should receive ? —I think that in the consideration of this question by the Cabinet the question of the Fivemillion Loan-never cropped up at all. 120. But can you supjae&e that when I was sending the telegram saying I would take the Agent-Generalship_ -without salary, it could have been otherwise than in my mind that this Fivemillion Loan wouidhe included? —How can I decipher what would be in your mind,