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27. In what shape did the Government bring the question of remuneration before the House? ■ —I cannot remember certainly ; but, as far as my memory serves me, there was no direct vote taken upon Sir Julius Vogel's claim, but only on the general question of whether we should go on with the inscription of stock. The Government, as far as I know, never admitted that Sir Julius Vogel had any claim for commission on the Five-million Loan. 28. Since that time, has Sir Julius Vogel made any further application in reference to this claim ? —Yes. 29. He has always kept it alive ? —Yes ; I think always. 30. Why was not the claim brought before the House ? —Because the Government never admitted there was any claim. They were willing, as I understood, to have submitted a proposal for inscribing stock; and, in that case, they would have appointed Sir Julius Vogel. 31. Why were Sir Julius Vogel's services as Agent for the inscription of stock dispensed with by the Government ? —I am not able to say certainly ; but I think it was considered desirable to have only the Agent-General. 32. Did the present Agent-General receive any additional sum for acting as Stock Agent?— No; he got less, because he gets a smaller salary than Sir Julius Vogel had. 33. Mr. Lance.] I am not quite clear about Sir Penrose Julyan's position. You say that the Government telegraphed that they wished his services retained for floating the loan after he had retired from his position as a Crown Agent for the colonies: was that so?—Yes. 34. At the time of that telegram to the Agent-General the Government must have expected that Sir Penrose Julyan would have received some remuneration for his services ? —I should think so. 35. You said that the *| per cent, had been paid without the knowledge of the Government ?— Yes. 36. But the Government could not expect to get his services for nothing?—No; but the Government thought it was far too large a payment considering the position Sir Penrose Julyan had occupied, and the fact that he had commenced the negotiation of this loan while he was Crown Agent; and that since then he has taken very much less indeed*. 37. Mr. Duncan.] Taking the whole facts of the case into consideration, do you consider that Sir Julius Vogel has any claim with regard to either the raising the loan, or for the conversion into inscribed stock? —No; I think no claim whatever. I have always held, and still hold, that the whole energies of a public man are due to the colony as long as he holds any political or semipolitical office, such as Agent-General; and I think it is very unfortunate when our public men value their services rendered while they are holding offices under the State at a money rate. 38. Is it in your knowdedge that Sir Julius Vogel has rendered any services since he resigned the Agent-Generalship with regard to the conversion into inscribed stock ?—Not as far as I know. He may have completed the arrangements. lam not certain of that. Otherwise, of course, he has been ready at all times to render any services in his power to the colony. His services have always been given freely and very, effectively. 39. Mr. Samuel.] On the 11th August, 1879, the Five-million Loan was assented to. At that time Sir Julius Vogel was Agent-General for the colony at a salary of £1,500 a year. Four days afterwards three persons were appointed Loan Agents—Sir Penrose Julyan, Mr. Ommaney, and Sir Julius Vogel. On the 11th December the Bank of England was authorized to receive tenders for the loan, and on the following day the loan was raised. In the meantime, on the 10th November, Sir Julius Vogel received the telegram, which he—rightly or wrongly —treats as equivalent to dispensing with his services ; and since the receipt of which he considers that he was acting only for the convenience of the Government. Were not the services in connection with the raising and conversion of the loan all rendered subsequent to the 10th November, 1879 ?—No ; but, of course, the most important part, as xelates to the actual raising of the loan, was subsequent to that date; because very great judgment is required to be exercised by the Agents in selecting the exact time at which to float the loan; a day or two either way would make all the difference between success and failure. By far the most important part of the services in connection with the raising of the loan, and the whole of the services as Inscription of Stock Agents, would be rendered after the 10th November. 40. Did Sir Julius Vogel, after the 10th November, still continue to perform the duties of Agent-General, as well as one of the Agents under these two Acts ? —Yes ; until he was relieved by Sir F. D. Bell some months afterwards. 41. For the services which Sir Penrose Julyan and Mr. Ommaney rendered each received |- per cent, or £6,250 each?—Well, the Crown Agents Fund received one of the commissions. Mr. Ommaney does not receive the amount himself; the fund received it. 42. And Sir Penrose Julyan received £6,250 himself?—Yes. 43. Did Sir Julius Vogel receive anything in respect of his services ?—He drew his salary as Agent-General during the time, and the Government looked upon his duties as Loan Agent and Inscription of Stock Agent as part of his duties as Agent-General. 44. In addition to what they received, is it not a fact that each of these two other Agents applied for -J- per cent, for their services under the Inscription of Stock Act?—l believe they did, but it was never recognized by the Government. Ultimately they withdrew their claim. Sir Julius Vogel still maintained his. 45. His claim was for one commission only. Had he ever made a claim for more than one? — I am not certain. I should suppose that if the other Agents had been paid £ per cent, upon inscription he w rould also, have claimed it, but I do not know that he did claim. 46. In fact, you understand Sir Julius Vogel's position to be this : He was one of three agents ; two of them each received a commission of J per cent.; Sir Julius Vogel received nothing, because at that time he was -A^ent- General for the colony, and was being paid a regular salary for the