73

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policy of the Government shall be to enable the Natives, if they wish it, to save their own lands. I met with a hapu at Ohinemutu who wanted to part with the whole of their lands. I found that they had ten thousand acres left, and that these lands were under the Thermal Springs Act. They wished to have the Act lifted, in order that they might be able to sell the last land belonging to the hapu. I found there were seventy people amongst them, and that the land, if divided, would amount to 143 acres each, and I thought that that was not too much for the people, and refused to lift the Act; for I knew that, if the Act were lifted, the lands would be sold at once, and in less than one month the money would have gone, and the land, too. When a Native holds land in his own right, then I think that he might be able to deal with it the same as the European does; but, until then, the people should have the power of protecting their lands. So much on that head. Now, the next question is one of some importance :it refers to the District Committee; and it has been requested that this District Committee shall be called into existence as soon as possible. I will say, with regard to the District Committees, that in most places where I have been the District Committee is at work, and I have found, without exception, that the chairmen and members of those Committees are the very best men that could have been appointed. I have found that the Committees have risen to a very high sense of the responsibility devolving upon them, and are exceedingly anxious to administer their duties with the greatest possible benefit to the people. I have great pleasure in complying with that request, because I feel certain that the Committee elected in this district amongst the people would not be inferior to any of the other Committees. I shall therefore give instructions that the necessary machinery be employed to establish this Committee without delay. With regard to the election of Native land owners to the County Council, I would say that, as ratepayers, they should vote at the elections to the County Council; and the ratepayers ought to see that all their names are put down on the list, so that when the time for election comes round they will be able to exercise their votes. And let me tell you this : that the County Council will begin to consider your interests when you have begun to exercise your power. The County Council has great respect for the ratepayers and will obey their instructions. Now, I come to the question raised with respect to the blocks wrongfully purchased. These blocks were sold fourteen or fifteen years ago, lam told, and Crown grants have been issued. I have no power to go behind Crown grants; where you have sold land legally, the land has been sold and parted with, and cannot be dealt with again. You cannot expect that, after having sold your land and taken the money, you can have the land brought into the same position as before you sold it. With regard to the reserves which Hapimana says have been given to the pakehas, I will make inquiry into that matter upon my return to Wellington, and let him know the result of my inquiry. With respect to roads through Native lands, he thinks that the Government should fence both sides. When the roads are taken, it will be for you to make the bargain with the Government or the County Council in that matter. Where you sell the land for these purposes, I am not sure that the Government is called upon to fence the roads ; but, where you give the land, I am inclined to think it would be fair if they either fenced or contributed something to the fencing of the roads. The next subject is in reference to the lands wrongfully purchased by Europeans, and he thinks that a Commission should be issued. Of course, if they have been legally purchased, then, as I have said, they cannot be interfered with. If there is a dispute about the title, my former answer will refer to this. I hope next session by legislation, to enable all these old questions to be satisfactorily settled. Hapimana has referred to a case where eighty-one persons were in the title, and where sixty-one persons were left out of the grant. If he will write me a letter upon this subject I will promise him that it will be inquired into. Reference has been made to a ferryboat on the river, the land on both sides belonging to the Native owners; and Raniera has said that the Natives have been fined for taking people across in canoes. I will inquire into that matter also, if a letter is written upon it giving me all the information. Ruka has made a very clear speech with regard to some grievances, which I shall deal with now in detail. He has referred to the Native Land Court and thinks that the fees are too high. I agree that in many cases the fees are much too high, and I propose to take steps to reduce them. The Judges of the Native Land Court have now received instructions, in cases where Natives are unable to pay the fees, to remit them. He thinks, also, that the Court should be held in the district where the land is and where the great body of the owners reside. I agree with him, and have given instructions to that effect. He has also referred to succession orders, the fees on which he thinks are much too high. I agree with him there also, and it is my intention to reduce the fees to, say, five shillings in each case. At the present time, I have found that in a great many cases the fees are so large that they sweep away the whole of the land. Again, I find that much inconvenience has arisen from the great delay in granting succession claims, and I propose, next session, that the Resident Magistrate should have power to hear succession claims, giving the people the right to appeal to the Land Court if they think proper; and, if a Court be held once a month, there can never be much delay in future. These and various other questions will be dealt with by legislation next session. Now I have gone through all the various subjects which have been introduced by the different speakers. I shall hear what you have to say in reply, and be prepared further to deal with the questions. I shall be very glad indeed that you should criticise my opinions, for it is only by discussion that we can really arrive at the truth. Wi Peiwhairangi : I ask that the speech which you have just been good enough to make to us may be translated into Maori, seeing that notes have been taken of it. Mr. Ballance said that he would have this done. Wi Peiwhairangi : With regard to the ninth subject which I brought before you, I hope you will not consider that I was acting for myself alone in bringing that matter forward. It is the wish of Tamanui Tera and a great many people. Mr. Ballance : I understand that. Wi Peiwhairangi : When the Court opened at Waiomatatini I was present and a number of the other people who are here now. All the chiefs of Ngatiporou, including Wiremu Keeha and others, stood by and called upon the Ngatiporou to withdraw the whole of their cases. Te 10— G. 1.