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mutu and Maketu ; but at each place there are separate matters for discussion. That is all I have to say. WMtitera te Waiatua : I want to explain something with regard to one of the statements made by the last speaker. One of the requests mentioned in our address presented to you this morning is that the survey charges shall be reduced. Some years ago, when the surveys were first commenced in our district, the charge made by the surveyor was £1 per day. Even if twenty small pieces were surveyed in one day, the charge would only be £1. After that the Government directed that £3 per survey was to be charged; so that if there were thirty small pieces the charges would amount to £90. This was the plan adopted by surveyors in the past, until lately; but now we are told that the surveyors charge £6 for surveying a piece of land. The charge now for surveying our •small blocks of land is £6 each. The land may only be a quarter of an acre in extent, yet there is a charge of £6 made; if it is only ten perches in extent £6 is charged. So that the surveyor, though he might survey a number of these small pieces in one day, yet charges £6 for every piece. Under this arrangement we feel that we are unable to meet these charges. They are too heavy. That is why we made the request, that you will look into this matter and have the charges reduced. Rotohiko Haupapa : This is a matter which largely affects the Natives—this matter of surveys —and I wish to say something on the subject. Some years ago a surveyor made a number of surveys at Maketu. His name was Frasi. That surveyor charged £1 per day ; and it made no difference whether he made one survey in a day or five or six different surveys, he charged £1 for all of them. So that if the surveyor completed six in one day each piece paid one proportion of the pound, and the result was that the charges came very light indeed. What Whititera has stated is perfectly true : the charges at present are very high. I certainly approve of the plan adopted by Mr. Frasi, which I have mentioned. Mr. Ballance : I will now reply to the various subjects which have been brought forward. With regard to the surveys, lam sorry to hear that the charges have been raised. I have made inquiry of Mr. Brabant, and lam informed that it is quite true. I think that some mistake has been made by the Survey Department, and I agree in the expression of opinion that the mode adopted by Mr. Frasi in charging so much a day is perhaps the best one; but I propose in future, as far as possible, to leave the question of employing the surveyors in the hands of the Natives themselves, so long as they employ qualified men. At any rate, whatever mode may be adopted, I shall see, as I said this morning, that the amount charged to the Natives shall be no more than the amount actually charged to the Government. I agree that you have a very solid grievance, and I shall see at once that it is remedied. With regard to a section of the Natives, or the Ngatiwhakaue, having business to transact at Maketu, I am afraid that time will not permit me to visit that district. At any rate, I shall not be able to go there before my return to Wellington. I should very much like to visit Maketu, because I have heard a very excellent account of the Natives who live in that part of the country, and I should like to see them very much. If, therefore, I can return before the session—if time will permit—l shall do so, and visit Maketu. Now, with regard to the Thermal 'Springs Act, I have heard what Tapsell has said. It is quite true, I believe, that the Ngatiwhakaue do wish that the Act should remain in force over the whole of the land proclaimed ; but it is right that I should say here that a few of the hapus, I am told, wish the Proclamation removed. Of course that may not influence lho to remove it; because, if there is a division of opinion I shall in that case have to exercise my own judgment. lam inclined to think that the Proclamation should not be removed off any portion of the land. That is my strong opinion, and it v/ill require very forcible arguments to induce me to consent to the removal of any portion of the Proclamation. Now, with regard to the surveys being placed under the District. Committees, I am inclined to think that in the survey of all Native lands the District Committee should be asked to give advice. At any rate, I shall see that notice of the surveys be sent to the Committee, in order that they may know what is going on. Now, with regard to the railway, I understood Tapsell to say that his particular hapu had given ten thousand acres, and sold ten thousand. That statement is hardly correct. The whole twenty thousand acres were sold by this hapu, and I would like to ask him whether that is not so ? lieiireii Tapihana : There was a document—a deed of gift added to the deed of sale—saying that some of the land was given—that a portion of the land was absolutely given. It was not stated in the deed of gift the exact number of acres that were given, but certain persons signed a supplementary deed saying that they gave their interest for nothing. Mr. Ballance : As a matter of fact the whole of the land was paid for. Now, Tapsell has put a question: he says ho has sold twenty thousand acres to the Government, and he says that his hapu have only got thirty thousand acres remaining, and he asks, Is that too much for the people to retain in their own hands ? He further wanted to know whether I applied to his particular hapu when I said that a certain portion of land should be sold to the Government, or to the company, in order that the railway should be constructed. Those are strong and proper questions, and I will give clear answers. He must, of course, recognize that there is no part of the country which will receive greater benefit than the Township of Ohineniutu. The position of the reserves or the leases is, as ho is aware, very unsatisfactory. A great many of the lessees refused to pay the rents, some of them are not able to pay, and. the Government have taken steps to compel them. He cannot complain that the Government have thrown away any chance in enforcing the leases. The Government have been strenuous in attempting to get for the Natives at any rate the prices obtained at the sale. The success of the whole township and the validity of these leases depend upon two things—that the Government township shall be the only township, and that there shall be no rival to it. And here I would point to the fact that some of the Native owners of land have been very much injuring the Government township by giving leases and encouraging building here in Ohinemutu. It must be clear to every one of you that, unless you support your own township and support the Government, the Government cannot get for you your rents. We think,