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202. Do you know the facts of this case of the petitioner, Thomas Telford ? [The petition was here read.] —Yes. 203. You will observe that the petitioner says you have misrepresented his case to the Colonial Secretary ?—The very reverse is the case. I have done everything I could for the petitioner. 204. How was the department administered : who was the medium of conveying instructions from the Minister to the Inspectors ? —I was, since the Act of IS7B was passed up to the appointment of Mr. Bayly. 205. And what does the Superintending Sheep Inspector do ?—He does all the outdoor work; lie sees that the Inspectors do their work in the field, &c. 206. Do you receive instructions from the Superintending Inspector?—No; I receive instructions from nobody but the Minister. 207. Then the permanent head of the department, Mr. Cooper, does not give you instructions?— No; excepting for the Minister. He signs all letters giving instructions, but requests for information and ordinary papers are signed by me as Private Secretary. All papers requiring instructions are submitted by me to the Minister for his decision. 208. After you receive instructions from the Minister do you communicate directly with the Inspectors, without referring to any other authority ? —'Yes, if I consider it necessary ; or I do so if I am instructed by the Minister. 209. But not otherwise ?—I do so likewise if lam instructed by Mr. Cooper, who gets his instructions from the Minister's minutes on the papers. 210. Then there are two authorities, you being one and Mr. Cooper the other? —No; Mr. Cooper is my superior officer. 211. Are we to understand that you receive your instructions from Mr. Cooper or from the Minister? —From both. 212. But I want to know who your superior permanent officer is ? —Mr. Cooper. 213. And you take your instructions from him ?—Yes. 214. When an order is given to the Sheep Inspectors to do certain things, is that order given by Mr. Cooper? —Yes; all orders are given by Mr. Cooper, who signs all official documents. I take all papers to the Minister, who then minutes them ; and letters are signed by Mr. Cooper. 215. What are the functions of the Superintending Inspector ? —To see that the Sheep Inspectors do their work in the field. 216. Who instructs the Superintending Inspector ?—-He is responsible to the Minister. 217. He receives instructions from Mr. Cooper ? —Yes, if the Minister so directs. 218. And any instructions which it may be necessary to give to an Inspector by the Minister are given through Mr. Cooper ? —Yes. 219. Then anything you may have had to say to an Inspector has been said by the order of Mr. Cooper ? —Yes, by his order or by that of the Minister. 220. Would you communicate with an Inspector without referring to Mr. Cooper ? —Not on any new matter. He is supposed to see everything I write to the Inspectors of Sheep. 221. Supposing the Minister wants to give instructions to the Inspectors? —Then Mr. Cooper writes, but if it is very important and urgent, I do it myself at once, generally by telegraph. 222. And how does Mr. Cooper get to know of it ?—By seeing the papers either before or afterwards. 223. So then the Minister has the means of obtaining information once through you and once through Mr. Cooper? —Yes. 224. Are you acquainted with the facts of Telford's case ?—Yes, quite intimately. 225. Why was the order given for his removal ?—The Minister considered it necessary to make a change in Mr. Telford's district. 226. For what purpose ? —I did not ask him, and do not know. 227. What were you instructed by the Minister to do in his case ?—I was not instructed. I prepared the necessary letters to be signed by the Minister or by Mr. Cooper, carrying out the Minister's orders. 228. Then how was it that he was removed ? —Because the Minister considered it necessary to make a change. 229. Was this change made through you or Mr. Cooper ? —By a letter signed by the Minister. 230. Was it sent directly by the Minister ?—lt was a letter given by the Minister to Mr. Sutton, to deliver to Mr. Telford. 231. How was this letter sent; did the Minister instruct you to send it, or did he instruct Mr. Cooper to send it ? —I do not exactly recollect at this moment. 232. What was the reason given for Mr. Telford's removal ? —Removals are considered matters of policy, and I am not competent to express any opinion as to why it was done. 233. We do not require your opinion. We want to know why he was removed ? —I was instructed by the Minister that the change should take place. 231. Did you know the reasons that actuated the Minister in removing Mr. Telford ? —No. 235. Was any complaint ever made as to the manner in which he conducted his business ?—No. 236. Is it usual in this department to remove officers from one place to another ?—Yes. 237. And to remove them from the Service altogether ? —No, and Telford was not removed from the Service. He was given the option of going to another subdivision at the same rate of pay, and if he had gone the expenses of his removal would have been paid. It was entirely his own fault that he left the Service. 238. Then he had the alternative offered him of taking a similar appointment in another district ? —Yes. 239. And he could have taken that other appointment if he had liked ? —Yes, it was kept open for him for five months. 240. Mr. Button.'] Is it a fact that Mr. Cooper has the management of the Sheep Department ? —Yes.