37

I.—2a.

behind. The day they came up, or that night, I went myself after Hori te More. He would not come with Te Hemara, as his grandchild was sick. He said, "My grandchild is going to die. If he dies, I will let him die at the kianga." The following morning Hori te More came with me to the Awaroa, and then the three of us met —or four of us with Te Hemara. 1002. Did Arama Karaka hear there the reason you had sent for him ? —He had received my letter. I gave him the reason in my letter about the purchase of Pakiri. 1003. Now, when Brissenden gave his own cheque for £200 to Arama Karaka, was it after the money had been lodged in the bank ?—The day after. 1004. Was that Mr. Brissenden's own money, out of his own account, or was it out of Arama Karaka's ?—That was Mr. Brissenden's money —his own cheque. 1005. How many days after Mr. Brissenden gave his cheque did Arama Karaka sign one?— Arama Karaka signed it on that day. 1006. Then on the very day that Mr. Brissenden gave his cheque Arama Karaka signed one ?—1 am not quite sure about those two cheques. This is my impression why the two cheques were given : Arama Karaka wanted to get away, and wanted some money; and Mr. Sheehan said he could not give the money unless I, or some one who could speak Maori, was present. This was in the afternoon, and I think the reason was, that if I should not find Clark prior to the bank being closed in the afternoon, I could draw the money and pay it to Adam Clark, and then Mr. Sheehan could get the other cheque signed. The bank closes at 3 o'clock. 1007. Mr. Hone Mold Taivhai.~] When Arama Karaka stayed at Awaroa who was his companion ?—Te Hemara. 1008. Who asked Te Hemara to accompany him to Awaroa ? —I did. I had gone to see Te Hemara a month previously to this, about the Pakiri purchase. He is nearly related to Adam Clark, and I knew that Te Hemara had some claim to the Pakiri Block. Of course the Natives are aware that I know pretty well all the Natives in the North and their claims, and I promised Te Hemara £50 to assist me. 1009. What was the full price of the land upon which Arama Karaka and Te Hemara were sent for ? —£1,600. That was not mentioned in my letter. That was an agreement afterwards. That was the arrangement at Mount Albert. Even at Helensville I did not touch upon price. 1010. When Arama Karaka and Te Hemara arrived at Te Awaroa, did Te Hemara go back to his home? —No; he went with me. Arama Karaka, Hori te More, and I went to Auckland. On the Friday we went to Riverhead (Pitoitoi), and on the Saturday morning we went down to Auckland. 1011. You know that the money which was given to Arama Karaka and his friends on account of the Pakiri sale was £800 ? —£Boo they received, and £800 was banked. 1012. And the two sums added together make £1,600? —Make £1,600. That was the price for the land. 1013. Mr. Sheehan."] For the two shares; not for the whole of the land ?—-Yes ; for the two shares only. There is another share belonging to Eahui, which she never sold. 1014. The Chairman.'} They have received the £1,600 ?—No, they have not. 1015. Is there a balance ?—There is a balance left. 1016. Mr. Bheeh<m.~\ Did Adam Clark understand distinctly the business that brought him to town with you and Te Hemara ? —Most decidedly, 1017. What was that business ?—To sell their two shares in the Pakiri Block. 1018. If Adam Clark has sworn before this Committee that he never heard of the business until he came to meet me at Official Bay at the hotel, is that statement untrue ? —lt is untrue. 1019. You were present, I think, in Kaipara in 1869, when this land was put through the Court ? —I was. I was engaged along with you in some lands investigated at that Court. 1020. Do you remember Judge Rogan coming to me at your house and asking me if I would become a trustee in this estate along with Arama Karaka ? —Distinctly. 1021. Do you recollect anything in relation to the block with respect to the claim of John McLeod, on account of the Maori prisoners breaking into his store at Te More's place ? —I cannot say that I do. I remember distinctly that there was some talk about it. 1022. Do you know whether, before 1874, any overtures were made to purchase the lands? —I know that you and Colonel McDonnell came to Kftipara and endeavoured to see Hori te More to purchase this piece of land. I think you paid £10, and I remember distinctly telling you that you had made a mistake. 1023. At Helensville?—Yes. 1024. Do you remember what year that was ?—I cannot say. 1025. It would be before you came to Auckland ? —Yes ; a couple of years I should say. 1026. The total amount payable for the two shares was £800 each ? —Yes. 1027. Of that sum one-half was kept back until the title should be complete, I presume ?—That was it exactly. 1028. Leaving £800 to be dealt with ?—Exactly so. 1029. Of that sum one-half, £400, was to be the share of Wi Apo ?—Yes. 1030. You stopped £50 for Jones ? —Yes ; but that is not the way we put it. I remember distinctly the £100. I did not put it that way to the Natives. I remember the Natives did not understand it very well. Mr. Brissenden said, " Take £100 out of the whole £1,600 or out of the £800. That was, of course, £50 each. 1031. It is £50 out of £400, leaving £350. You had paid him £50 at your own house ?—Yes. 1032. That woujd leave £300 ?—Yes. 1033. That £300 was banked ?—Yes. 1033 a. Having seen the bank slip with your handwriting upon it, you now understand that you did go with him to the bank and pay in the money ? —I believe so ;I do not recollect. I believe I did, having seen the slip. 1034. You have paid money into the bank frequently ?—Yes.

Mr. C. E. Nelson. Aug. 17,1880.