1.-2.

4

24. Have you any record as to what time it was taken away to the Printer ? —We have a record of all papers numbered except the Public Works papers, and they are allowed to be lettered and numbered by the Public Works Department. 25. Hon. Mr. Bichardson.] You stated that you gathered up these papers immediately after the session. Was that map attached to tho document—was the document complete then ? —I am tolerably sure it was. I looked over the papers then, and I should have missed it if it had not been there. 26. Mr. Pyke.] Is there any reason, Mr. Otterson, for the exception of Public Works papers in the way you describe ? I understood you to say that the papers were lettered and numbered by Major Campbell, except Public Works papers; is there any cause for Public Works papers being so excepted?—There was some difficulty one year about numbering Public Works papers. Ido not know what the cause exactly was, but an arrangement was made that the Public Works Office should be allowed to number their own papers, and they have done so for three or four years. The witness was thanked for his attendance and withdrew. Mr. G. Didsbuey, Government Printer, sworn and examined. 27. The Chairman.] You are the Government Printer, Mr. Didsbury?—l am. 28. Would you inform the Committee what course you adopt when you get documents such as plans handed over to be printed as Appendices to the Journals ? —Any plan that has to be lithographed I send on to the person in charge of the Lithograph Department, now Mr. McColl. When the Lithograph Department was under my control I used to make arrangements with the draughtsman to do whatever work was necessary, and send the account in for whatever work he had performed to the Legislative Department for payment; but, in this instance, the department not being under my control, I simply handed it over to the foreman of the lithographic branch, and left him to make all the necessary arrangements for doing the work. 29. Does he return the documeuts to you when the impression has been taken off the stone, in order that you may compare it with the document that you furnished to him?—No, he does not. I thought he would return the document direct to the House after it was done, but when inquiries were made for the document, I went up into the lithographic department, and I found it in the drawer of the lithographer. 30. Have you any information with regard to the document under consideration, viz., of the North Island, showing constructed railways, and those about to be constructed ?—I have none of my own knowledge. I can only give what information has been communicated to me by Mr. Koch. 31. Who is Mr. Koch ? —Draughtsman iv the Public Works Office. 32. What information did he give you on the subject? —When Major Campbell asked me first if I could gather information as to whether any alteration had been made in the map after it was placed in my hands for lithographing, I went up to the lithographic office, questioned the foreman there, and got what particulars I could as to when it was printed, and by whom the draughtsman's work was done. Mr. Koch happened to be in the lithographic department at that time, working at one of the stones there, and he told me that he had plotted the railway lines in. I asked him if he could tell me whether any alteration was made from the original map after it was placed in his hands. He told me no alteration was made after it was placed iv his hands, but he knew it was not in the same condition now as when it was presented to the House. 33. Who would put the document into his hands? When would that occurrence take place ?— lam not quite sure by whom the document was placed in his hands. The Lithographic Department is at present connected with the Survey Department. I believe Mr. McColl communicated with the Survey Department, and Mr. Barron said that, as it was a Public Works affair, they had better get one of the Public Works Draughtsmen to do the work and plot the lines on the stone, showing the railways authorized and proposed. 34. After the document was laid on the table, supposed to contain the lines of constructed railways and railways proposed to be constructed, was there any necessity that the plan should be referred to the draughtsman before lithographing? —Yes; it could not be photo-lithographed, because the lines were in colours. If the lines had been in black there would have been no necessity for employing a draughtsman ; but as they were painted in red they could not be photographed, consequently a draughtsman had to be employed. 35. Mr. Pyke.] Is the lithographic department in the same building as the printing?— Yes. I should state that, when I made iuquiries, I examined the stone which contained the map, to satisfy myself that the lines had not been put on after the map had been transferred on the stone. I thought, by the appearance of the map, that the line from Te Aroha Mountain to the Thames had been added afterwards, in consequence of the variation in the size of the blocks from that point, but I found that was not the case, and that the map, as printed, was placed on the stone at the same time. There were not two operations. 36. Mr. McLean.] I suppose you will be able to find out at what time the map was placed on the stone ? —Yes. 37. The Chairman.] When this map was put into Mr. Koch's hands, what line of railway would he have to put on the stone ? Would he have to put on this black line ?—Yes ; he would have to take a transfer first of the map already on the stone, and then plot in the lines of railway required on the transfer-paper copy, after which operation it is retransferred to another stone and printed off. They never interfere with the stone containing the map of New Zealand ; but when another map has to be prepared, an impression is taken on the transfer paper, and whatever additional work is necessary is put on that paper, and then it is put on another stone. 38. Mr. Bolleston.] Are you of opinion that this piece from Te Aroha to Grahamstown was put on the map at a different time from that between Hamilton and Te Aroha ? —Yes. 39. Why do you think that?— The tint is not the same, and moreover the person who put it on informed me that it was added on afterwards. Mr. Wrigg (showed me the record map in the Public Works Department, where this portion of the line is simply marked in red chalk, not in carmine colours at all.