H.—l6.

7

I mean an outlet for the passago of men or anything else that might he rendered necessary. Do you think the only means of getting out should be the place where the men enter ? No ; there ought to be a second place. On the whole, do you think the system of working observed in the Kaitangata Mine was a safe system, or not ? Yes ; I consider it was quite a safe system, if the old workings had been shut off. Wherever old workings come to be done they ought to be shut off from the other workings. ' Suppose you had been the manager of this mine, and had been told that fire-damp had been noticed in different parts, would you have thought it dangerous to have left access to the old workings under the circumstances ? Yes, very dangerous. Examination continued : All up-draught shafts ought to be provided with ladders for escape in case of accident. Have you any doubt in your own mind as to where the accident originated ? No ; I am pretty positive that it was in the old workings that the explosion took place. Examination continued : Seeing that fire-damp had been noticed a few days previously, it was reckless for a man to go into the old workings with a naked light. One would naturally have expected gas to be gathered there. Any ordinary miner ought to have known the danger that existed. By the Jury: I have never seen the effects of fire-damp in the Old Country, neither have I seen any fire-damp in the Abbotsford Mine. Samuel Herbert Cox, Inspector of Mines, in the service of the New Zealand Government, said: I have a certificate of competency from the School of Mines in London. I have been through the Kaitangata Mine three times on different occasions. The last time was on the Ist February. I did not go through the old workings then. Messrs. Hodge, Twinning, and Holmes were with me. The last time I went through the old workings was a year ago last January. In February, the ventilation in the new workings appeared perfectly satisfactory ; that is to say, that the current of air passing through was good. The question as to whether the system of ventilation was good or not, depended on the fact as to whether fire-damp was present or not. I thought the " stoppings " between the main drive and the old workings were sufficient for ventilating purposes. There was only a door to prevent persons from passing from the main drive into the old workings. Was it not necessary to examine the old workings ? My reason for not doing so was partly because Mr. Binns, the Coal Viewer in the employ of the Government, had been through them only eight days previously, and partly because of the shortness of time. Had you any information given you as to fire-damp ? I inquired of Mr. Hodge if any had been found in the old workings, and he told me " No." He told me at the same time that a man came out of the old workings with a report that there was firedamp, but he had sent Beardsmore there, and Beardsrnore had flashed his lamp across the roof, but returned with the information that no fire-damp was to be found. He did not tell me that any accident had arisen in consequence of fire-damp. If he had, I should have concluded that farther precautions were necessary, because the fire-damp would have collected in the high chambers of the old workings. I have met Mr. William Hodge every time I visited the mine. Ido not think he was competent to take charge of a mine without the supervision of an Inspecting Manager. I believe the explosion must have taken place in the old workings. Have you had any practical experience with regard to fire-damp ? No ; I have only known of it in theory. Do you think barometers should he used in mines ? Yes ; they give indications of danger if fire-damp is known to be in a mine. In a certain state ox the atmosphere the fire-damp would he apt to come out of the chambers in which it collected. If a miner had known fire-darn}) to be about in the new workings, it was dangerous for him to enter these old workings with a naked light; but I would not say it was highly dangerous. Can you say whether the mine has been worked with ordinary and proper precaution in regard to ventilation and means of egress ? Not with the knowledge of fire-damp having existed in the new workings. With proper precautions, is it probable that the explosion would have taken place ? No. As a skilled man, then, perhaps you would point out what precautions were necessary? First of all, these large chambers in the old workings required independent ventilation. How could that have been given ? By independent drives close to the roof. And the air should have been taken right through the workings witli an upcast shaft sunk in a different direction to the rise of the workings. I believe it was the intention of the Company to do this shortly. Did the late manager give you the impression, then, that there had been no fire damp there ? He gave me the impression that anyhow there had only been a trace of it. That was last month ? Yes, in February. And did he not report the accident that had occurred to Jarvie ? No. What is the nature of this coal ? It is pitch coal. Is that known to generate fire-damp ? That's purely a local question. Whenever I have been here before I have been told that there has never been any sign of fire-damp—that fire-damp was not dreamt of. Was there any necessity to work with safety-lamps ? I think it was perfectly safe to work in the new workings with a naked light, but certainly the old mines should never have been entered without a safety-lamp.