I.—3a

5

99. Would the parents prefer that the children should be allowed to be perfectly idle or engaged in play during the spare hours? —I have no answer to make to that question. It is not a proper one for me to answer. 100. I will separate it. Would parents have preferred that their children should have remained perfectly idle when not engaged in studying ? —Parents thought the only thing that should be done was to teach the children in school. 101. Did you ever see the children doing manual labour?—Tes. 102. What kind ?—I saw them chopping wood, fetching water, and carrying potatoes out of the fields. 103. Was this during school hours or not ?—I do not know. 104. Captain Russell.'] You state the money does not go to support the school. How do you know that? —Mr. Williams showed us that when he said the parents must pay for their children being sent to the school. 105. Then what becomes of the money? —I do not know where it goes. 106. Are you sure that the money does not go partially to support the school ?—I am not prepared to say either one way or another. 107. Have you made any inquiries on the subject from Mr. Williams, the schoolmaster, or the trustee ? —No. 108. Will you tell me the name of any single child whom Mr. Williams has refused admission to ?—-He has not refused admission to any, but he has always asked for the £20. 109. It is alleged that children have come from the East Coast and other parts of the colony to the school. Do you know whether these children have paid £20 ?—They paid the £20. 110. You state that the land given to the school is being used for Mr. Williarns's purposes. Will you explain what you mean by that ? —I did not say that. 111. Is the land used for school purposes or for Mr Williams's purposes?—The only thing I know is about the school itself. 112. To what is the £20 applied ?—To the tuition of the children. 113. Is it not reasonable to suppose that the funds derived from the estate are applied to other expenses in connection with the school ? —I do not think so, because, in addition to the £20, the parents are called upon to clothe the children, and to pay for a portion of the board. 114. You imagine that no part of the funds of the estate is applied to school purposes?—I do not know. 115. You have never taken the trouble to inquire of the trustees ?—I do not know who they are. 116. I understand you to consider it an indignity that the child of a chief should be put to do manual labour ?—Yes. 117. You would not think a schoolmaster neglected his duty if he failed to teach the Maori children any of the knowledge of a European ?—I do not think so. The parents of the children know all those things perfectly well. 118. Would you not have Native children taught any European knowledge which involved manual labour ?—I do not think a child should be sent to fetch water. 119. Never mind fetching water. I am referring to manual labour generally ?—No. 120. Have you ever known young chiefs to go shearing ?—Yes ; they go of their own wish. 121. Have you ever known old chiefs to go and work in the sheep sheds ?—Yes; they go of their own wish. 122. Do you know a great chief called Eenata Kawepo ?—If you ask me that question, I shall say I do not know. 123. Is there not a great chief in Hawke's Bay known as' Renata Kawepo ? —Perhaps ho is a great chief. 124. Is he not one of the hardest-working chiefs in Hawke's Bay ?—I do not think he is such a very hard-working man. 125. How can you speak positively as to the value of the estate if you do not know the area?— I do not know the area of' the Government land. 126. Have you never heard the area of the Government land since it was given ? —No. 127. Who first started this petition ? Who was the father of it ? —The people whose names are attached to it. 128. Whose idea was it originally ?—Petitioner's own idea. 129. Was it not started by a European? —No. 130. Mr. Takamoana.~\ Have you stated all the reasons and all the grievances which led to the signing of this petition?—I forget some of the reasons. 131. Do you know when the school was first put up ?—Yes. 132. Do you remember Mr. Williams first occupying the land?—Yes; I forget the year. He was living upon the Maori land, not the school land. 133. How long was he living upon the Native land ?—Three or four years. I am not clear. 134. Was he teaching all that time? —He was teaching the first year; but when the children saw they were being put to do work they ran away. 135. Do you know how long Mr. Williams was on the Te Aute land before he built a school ?— About fifteen years. That is my opinion. 136. Wlieu the school was put up, did the children of the people who gave the land go to the school ?—No. 137. Why ? —Because they had to do manual labour, and because their parents had to pay £20 a year, and to clothe them as well. Only the children from the Ngatiporou and the Wairoa tribe go there. 138. Who got up this petition against Mr. Williams? —The petitioners. I am one of them. Hapuku and lieuata are others. 139. Where was this petition written?—At Te Hauke, at Te Hapuku's house. 140. How many persous were present ?—About 200, including visitors aud guests.