1.-6.

16

Mr. Kussell ?—No ;I do not see them upon this plan of the land sold to Mr. Eussell. I assume, if there were surveyed sections in the swamp, they would appear there. 254. What is the character of the swamp ? You say you acquired a general knowledge of the swamp on the eastern side ? —lt was a very wet swamp. There are several distinct classes of swamp in the Waikato. There is one class lying on high table land which is only swampy from the rainfall catchment upon them. Other swamps, of which this " Piako "is one, form a kind of resovoir. When the Waikato has been two or three days in flood, its waters will run back along some of its tributaries and fill these swamps, which act as reservoirs, and these floods will contiue for many days. This swamp is one of these instances, and the consequence is that any reclamation of it would be of a much more difficult and expensive nature to carry out reclamation or drainage than on such swamps as those that lay near Ohaupo or Cambridge, on what is termed the delta between the two rivers. The other swamps are in some instances 150 or 200 feet above the level of the river, and were caused partly by the Natives choking the natural outlets with eel-dams. 255. What is the usual level of the Waikato flood when the water runs from it into this swamp ? —About 12 or 15 feet rise ; perhaps in places not so much as that. It \fas so high that I have seen the tide coming up this creek at the rate of two miles per hour flowing into this swamp. 256. Are you aware that this land was open for a number of years for selection at ss. per acre ? — I know nothing of the history of the land since 1866. 257. Would it, in your opinion, have been a saleable block at that price ?—Not readily saleable. Only capitalists would buy it, because large dykes would be necessary to prevent the ingress of water ; whilst in the other swamp, such as Cox and Douglass's, a simple cutting and clearing out the creeks was sufficient. 258. Do you know anything of the drainage operations that have been in progress during the last year or two ? —No. I know somewhat of these swamps, because I wrote a memorandum on the subject of reclaiming them for the Government, when I was Chief Surveyor, in 1865, pointing out how the swamps could be utilized at a very trifling expense. 259. The present inquiry is regarding the lower swamp ? —I remember distinctly I did not allude to the practicability of draining this swamp, from the circumstance of having seen it flooded in the way I have named. 2GO. Mr. 31acandrew.~\ What proportion of the 80,000 acres is contained in the lower swamp ?— I should thiuk that the part which I noticed more particularly would contain some 35,000 acres. 261. This memorandum which you wrote ten years ago on the subject of draining the swamps — can it be produced ?—lt must be extant. 262. Was it written to the General or to the Provincial Government ?—To the General Government. It was .on the general subject of swamps ; and its object was to show how, by the removal of the Native dams, the high-lying swamps could be utilized at a small expense. 263. Did you refer to this swamp, amongst others ? —I think all the swamps were mentioned in it, but it chiefly referred to the high-lying swamps. I may tell the Committee that another report was also written about the same time by Lieut. Walker, an engineer, on the subject of draining the Waikato swamps. 264. Was that report to the General Government ?—Yes. 265. The Chairman.'] In the same year, 1865 ?—Either in 1865 or 1866. 266. Mr. Ormond.~\ How much of this swamp was inundated by water from the Waikato ?— I think about 35,000 acres. 267. Have you any idea as to what depth it was flooded to ?—Sufficiently to make it impossible for man or horse to travel over it. 268. And no system of drainage would afi'eet that part ?—ln my opinion, it would require what the Americans call a " levee," or embankment along the river, to stop the reflux of water. 269. Captain Kenny. .] Did you at that time form any estimate of the cost of these embankments ? —No. 270. Have you a tolerably distinct recollection of the main features of this particular piece of country ? Can you give the Committee an approximate opinion as to the expense of reclaiming it ? — I cannot. I should not like to attempt such a thing unless I went into it with great care. 271. Are we to understand that ordinary drains would not suffice to render the land safe from floods ? —Decidedly not, in my opinion. 272. Nothing short of embankments ?—Nothing short of embankments along a portion of the river's margin, or a timber obstruction across the river itself, with the necessary sluices, would suffice to keep out the water in times of heavy flood. 273. What proportion of country is affected by this Waikato water ?—I can scarcely say that, because the Waikato water might act as a positive cause of inundation, or it might act as an obstruction to prevent outlet to the ordinary drainage of the swamp, so that the whole swamp would in some measure depend upon that. 274. Then the whole swamp would be affected ?—A very large portion would receive the back water of the Waikato. 275. Do these floods occur frequently ? How long and at what seasons were you at this particular place ? —I have known this swamp from 1848 to 186(5, and I suppose I have seen it seven or eight times under water during that period; but I more particularly noticed it at the time I was looking out for land for the military settlers. 276. Floods would occur at least once a year ?—Yes. 277. Mr. Macandreic] Could you, by referring to a map of the Province of Auckland, recognize the 80,000 acres now in question, so as to make sure what portion of it you had a personal knowledge of?—lf I had a tolerably accurate map, I could lay that down upon it. 278. Major Jackson.] Were there not very great difficulties in finding land for the military settlers ?—Yes. 279. Had not all the land in the neighbourhood available for settlement been surveyed ?—I think it had. I surveyed in the summer every piece of land I thought it was possible coul(i be made avail-

Major Seaphy.

6th Oct., 1875,