1.—3

8

225. Has he ever spoken to you about the matter ?—Not particularly. He may have spoken to me generally about the issue of miners' rights. 226. Did he never ask you whether you had given away any of these miners' rights while you had charge of them ? —I do not recollect his doing so. 227. Sir G. Grey.~] How many conversations do you think you have had with Mr. Mackay about these missing miners' rights ? —I really could not say. I have been his clerk, and have been constantly with him, so he may have spoken to me frequently about it, but I do not recollect any siDgle conversation we had on the subject. 228. Did he never ask you whether the rights had got out of your possession—whether you had been the person who gave them up ?—No. 229. And you always concealed the fact from him ?—I did, because I did not wish to get Briasenden into trouble over it. 230. And you knew that Mr. Mackay was believed to have done it ? —I did not. 231. Tou were not aware that it had been stated that Mr. Mackay had done it ?—No. 232. And that the Commissioner had reported that Mr. Mackay had done it ?—I was not aware of that. 233. Were you aware of the nature of the evidence that Mr. Mackay gave before the Commissioner ?—No, I was not. 234. He never told you that ?—He never told me his evidence, but since I came to Wellington I have seen it. 235. Was it in the tent that you gave them to Brissenden ?—lt was. 23G. And who was there ?—Mr. Brissenden and myself. 237. The Chairman.'] Did you write and sign this letter (" Appendix B") ? —I did. 238. Have you seen the report which the Commissioner made to the Government after the inquiry which was made into the alleged illegal issue of miners' rights ? —I have seen it. 239. Are you not aware that the conduct of Mr. Mackay has been impugned by that report in respect of the issue of the rights ? —I am not. I saw a copy of some evidence, but Ido not think I saw any report of the Commissioner. Ido not recollect reading it. 240. (Eeading.) " And I certify my opinion to bo, touching the premises, that the issue of miners' rights as aforesaid by James Mackay was an improper issue by the said James Mackay, and was done prior to the time at which miners' rights were to be issued." If you have seen the report, you must recollect that clause. Do you still say you were not aware that Mr. Mackay's conduct was impugned by the report ?—I do say so. I understood that it was Brissenden. 241. After reading the report ?—I do not recollect reading the report, but I have seen the evidence. I feel confident I have not read the report. 242. Sir G. Grey.] You said to the Commissioner, " I cannot say where the miners' rights were in the morning, but I am satisfied that he (Mr. Mackay) had them in a haversack on his back." That was the evidence you gave ?—Yes. 243. But when you gave that evidence you knew that you had them in the morning ?—Yes, I did; but Mr. Mackay had them first. When I said in evidence that Mr. Mackay had them in the haversack, I was speaking of the night when he had them in the haversack. 244. You did not then tell the Commissioner that you had had them in the morning ?—No, I was not asked the question. 245. Mr. O'Neill.] Did Mr. Mackay take the haversack off his back and give it to you to take charge of? —He did. 246. The Chairman.] Why did you write that letter to Mr. Brissenden ?—I understood that he had been accused of taking these rights, and I thought I would clear him from it. 247. Did Mr. Brissenden apply to you to write this letter ? Did he request you to do so ? —No, he did not. 248. It was purely voluntary ?—Yes. 249. Hon. Sir D. McLean.] I see that you wrote the letter from Nelson ?—Yes, and re-wrote it here. 250. The Chairman.] Were the two letters—the' one you say you wrote in Nelson and the one you re-wrote here —the same ?—To the same effect. 251. Was it a verbal difference only ? —Yes, merely verbal. 252. You wished to improve the wording of it, but did not alter the sense?— Yes. 253. Sir G. Grey.] Did you consult with any people here before you sent that letter to Mr. Brissenden ? —1 did not.

Mokday, 30th August, 1875. Mr. Bkissenden further examined on oath. 254. Sir G. Grey.'] "Were you summoned by Major Keddell, on the 30th of July, at Auckland, to appear on Monday, the sth, at half-past 2 o'clock ? —Yes, I received the summons at 8 or 9 o'clock on Saturday night. I had made it quite public about my going to Wellington. I was not ordered down by the Ministry in any shape or form. It was my own doing. I had business which I considered required my personal attendance at Wellington. I had told Major Keddell, at Hokianga, that as soon as I arrived at Auckland I intended going to Wellington in reference to many matters connected with the Land Court. I had to get back and attend a Court to be held at Kaihu on the 11th of the present month. I made my arrangements quite publicly, and I could not very well alter them. I told Major Keddell I should not give him any further evidence. I told him that distinctly at Hokianga. I said I would let him know when I returned to town. On the Saturday, at 8 or 9 o'clock, I received a summons for Monday. I went to Mr. Hesketh, of Hesketh and Richmond, who lives near me, and requested that he would go and make my excuses, and state why I had gone,