1.—3

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141. Did you give the whole of the rights that Mr. Mackay left with you to Mr. Brissenden ?— No, I gave him one bundle of rights. 142. And what did you do with the other bundle ?—There were a number of bundles. I returned them to Mr. Mackay. 143. Did Mr. Mackay understand, when you returned those other bundles to him, that he had received the whole ?—I believe so. I did not say anything about it. 141. Did you tell him that you had issued some of them ?—I did not. 145. Was Mr. Mackay aware that you had issued some rights to Mr. Brissenden ?—No one could have been aware of it but Mr. Brissenden. 146. When Mr. Mackay gave you the rights, did he say anything to you by which you could understand that you were to give the rights, or any of them, to Mr. Brissenden ? —He did not. 147. Ido not quite understand your position. You received these rights, it appears, merely to keep until Mr. Mackay came back, and it would then have been your duty to have handed them back to Mr. Mackay. How could you suppose it any part of your duty to give them to Mr. Brissenden ?— I did not consider it any part of my duty to give them to Brissenden. 148. Then I should like you to state plainly why you gave them to him ?—When Brissenden asked me to give them to him, and pressed me to do so, I did so. 149. He'" pressed you ?" What did he say, as nearly as you can remember? —He said, " You know I have paid for these rights, and that I am not going to make any improper use of them," or words to that effect. 150. What did you understand him to mean when he gave the assurance that he would not make any improper use of them. What did you consider that that expression " improper use of them " meant? —I can hardly say. 151. Would it have been an improper use of them to have forestalled other diggers in pegging out ground on the Ohincmuri Gold Keld; is that what you consider an improper use ? —No doubt that would have been an improper use. 152. Did you not see that there was a chance of that use being made of them by issuing them some hours previous to the general issue ? —I did not consider sufficiently at the time. 153. Your position then, if I understand you, is, that you handed these rights to Mr. Brissenden on the spur of the moment, without sufficient thought.—Yes. 154. You have no further explanation to give ? I must remind you that you have promised to tell the whole truth on your oath in this matter, and if you had any other reason at the time for giving Mr. Brissenden the rights, it is now your duty to tell the Committee what that reason was. —I had no other reason. I did it without thought. It was just immediately after Mr. Mackay had given the papers to me and left the tent. 155. At what hour was it ? —Between 6 and 7 o'clock in the morning, but I cannot remember exactly. 156. Had you slept in the tent during the night yourself ? —I had. 157. Who else was in the tent with you during the night ? —Mr. Mackay, Mr. Brissenden, and Mr. Crippin. 158. Was the tent yours ? —Yes, it was mine. 159. Did Mr. Brissenden stay there that night by your invitation ?—No. 160. How came he to stay there? —Mr. Mackay and Mr. Brissenden thought it was too late to go away, so they came into my tent. I was going away to my tent, and they said they would go and sleep there. 161. Had Mr. Brissenden been in the habit of sleeping in the tent with you ? —That was the first night I was there. I had just got the tent pitched for the night. 162. Hon. Sir D. McLean.] Where was the tent ?—Close to the large building occupied as offices by the Warden. 163. The Chairman.] Have you stated to the Committee all that Brissenden said to you when he pressed you to give him the miners' rights? —I think so. Ido not recollect his stating anything else. 164. Did he give you any special reason for wishing to have these rights before the general delivery at 10 o'clock? —I do not recollect. 165. I should like you to tax your memory on that point, because the Committee probably attach some importance to it. —I cannot say that he did give any special reason. It all took place, I may almost say, in a moment, and he left the tent immediately afterwards. 166. In handing back the other bundles of miners' rights to Mr. Mackay, you said you did not mention to him that you had disposed of part of them to Mr. Brissenden ?—I did not mention it. 167. Why did you not? He left those bundles with you as a matter of trust, and you disposed of some of them in the meantime. Why did you not tell him you had done so? —I did not say anything about it. I did not wish to say anything. 168. It seems to be a most obvious thing that you should have mentioned that you had disposed of some of them. And I ask you distinctly why you did not mention it to him ? —I did not like telling Mr. Mackay that I had given them away. Of course I had no right to give them away. 169. You knew, then, it appears, that you had done wrong ?—I did, but it was some time afterwards. 170. You knew it was wrong then because you had had time for reflection. Is that what you mean ?—Yes. 171. Did you at any subsequent period tell Mr. Maekay that you had given these rights to Mr. Brissenden ?—Not until after I wrote the letter to Mr. Brissenden. 172. Have you ever told Mr. Mackay ?—I mentioned it to him after I had written the letter, since I came to Wellington. 173. When was that ?—On Tuesday last. 174. And, on your oath, you never mentioned it to Mr. Mackay previously to that time ?—On my oath I never did mention it to him previously.