10

H.—29

120. Mr. Worgan] I hand Colonel McDonnell a letter dated 11th April, Wanganui, referring to an arrangement. Can you state what that arrangement was ? [Letter put in and marked G, and read by the Commissioner.] —That H. S. Taylor should take land elsewhere. 121. Did I not leave for Wellington the next day ?—Yes. 122. Do you remember upon what grounds I impressed upon you the necessity of assisting me in the matter ? —Yes ; the object was, in getting rid of this land to those people to get rid of tho Native claim. 123. Do you remember why I preferred your services as Native interpreter to the others you mentioned ? —I cannot think of any particular reason, but Mr. Worgan might possibly bo able to bring to my memory. 124. AVas it not in order that the arrangement should be kept within the knowledge and control of Government officers ? —No ; not to my recollection. To the best of my recollection, Mr. Worgan said that my brother Captain McDonnell was absent, or often absent, and that he did not care about employing Mr. Edwin AVoon. 125. Had not Mr. Pharazyn and Mr. Borlase more or less acquaintance with these subjects within your knowledge ? —Yes ; I believe they had. 126. Major Edivards] Did you not understand that tho first business relative to 8,000 acres was purely a matter of private business on Mr. Worgan's part on account of Messrs. Russell and others ? —Yes. 127. Did you understand that Mr. AVorgan had the sanction of the Government, either Provincial or General, or both ? —At one time he said he had the sanction of both Governments, and at another he had not; in this way, that he said he was determined the Provincial Government should not have any of the land at all, and then that he would bear me out against both Governments if they found fault with me. 128. Did Mr. AVorgan in the first place tell you he had the sanction of Government ? —No, not at first; he simply asked me to undertake the negotiation. 129. When you refused to undertake the negotiation of the land, did Mr. AVorgan tell you he had the sanction of Government ?• —Not on that day, but he said he had the sanction of Mr. McLean to do as he liked. 130. Did you understand Mr. Worgan to ask your assistance in his private or public capacity ?— I did not understand Mr. AVorgan to ask me in his public capacity on the first day, because he wished me to negotiate for private people, although in getting rid of the Native title he might have been fulfilling his instructions in respect to that. 131. After tho first day, what do you understand ?—lt was either in his office or Mr. Jones's shop that ho said it did not matter to him who bought the land, so long as he got rid of the Native title. It was between the first day and the day of my going to Wellington. [The Commissioner read a letter marked H, which Colonel McDonnell acknowledged having been written by him. Also a telegram marked I, which Colonel McDonnell stated he had seen before.] [Mr. Perham, on the part of Mr. Worgan, made the same reservations as before as to the original document.] [Tho Commissioner read the 3rd allegation.] Colonel McDonnell said he had no knowledge of the matter, as also to tho 4th, sth, Gth, and 7th allegations. Robebt Phaeaztn recalled. 132. Mr. Worgan] Have you not, since my appointment here, been intimately acquainted with tho nature of my operations, and consulted on the same subject ?—Yes ; I say yes, speaking of the general nature of the operations. I know nothing of the details, but understood the object of the operations, and entirely approved of the general object of what may be called tho policy pursued by Mr. Worgan in reference to these purchases. 133. You have no reason to think that in any case I have been actuated by private motives ? —-No ; I have always considered that you were doing your public duty to the best of your ability, and that if you had done it in a more perfunctory and official manner, you would have avoided heaving charges of unfair dealing brought against you, but nothing would have been done. 134. You remember, probably, my pressing Colonel McDonnell to place his services at my disposal, and my reasons for having done so. Will you state to the Court your remembrance of the matter ?—I remember that you told me that you wished Colonel McDonnell to act as Interpreter, and to manage various Native transactions in such a way as to assist you to carry out your public duties, and that, as Colonel McDonnell was an officer of the Government, he would be able to prevent intriguing or competition with respect to tho purchase of the Native lands, which would militate against the operations you were carrying out for the Government. If I remember rightly, I advised Colonel McDonnell, with the sanction of the Government, to do that. 135. About the 10th of April do you remember my showing you a telegram to the Under Secretary ? [Copy of telegram marked J read and put in.] —Yes, I agreed with the telegram. On the Gth of April do you remember writing a letter to Mr. Cooper bearing on this subject ? 13G. I refer to tho letter in question. [Copy of letter marked X, read and put in.] Previous to sending that letter you telegraphed to the Government about Colonel McDonnell ? —Yes. [Copy of telegram put in marked L, and read.] 137. In conversation with you about Turner's lease, have I not always expressed an opinion that it was by far the best thing the Government could get hold of ? —Yes, frequently. 138. Do you remember any value being put upon that lease ?—We calculated it to be worth about £1,200; I mean Mr. Worgan and myself. We calculated it separately, at the request of Government. I speak of the lease, not of the freehold, and Mr. AVorgan thought he might probably get it for £500. 139. Is it within your knowledge whether the lease belonged to Major Turner or Mr. H. S. Taylor?—l have always heard it originally belonged to Major Turner. Major Turner came into the