REPORT OE THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE.

25

H.—No. 7.

vote of want of confidence ? " —I think that this was said more in reference to Mr. Harrison's statement about the tactics of his party. 362. Mr. Tribe has said that you used this language, " You can.prevent Mr. Vogel bringing on a vote of want of confidence." Is that correct ? —I then thought Mr. Harrison had some influence with Mr. Vogel. 363. Did you say you thought he had ? —I daresay I did. 364. Then you were anxious that a vote of that kind should not be brought on ?—Personally, my feelings were in. favour of Mr. Stafford's Government. It is a well-known fact amongst my friends that my sympathies were in that direction, and I thought I had a perfect right to express my opinions on the point. It was the first time I had expressed my political views; and now that I was independent of the Government, I thought I had a perfect right to do so. 365. Were you not acting as an extra clerk in the Government offices at the commencement of the present Session ? —No ; I. was assisting Mr. Haughton for ten days or so. 366. When Mr. Harrison said that the further consideration of the proposals should stand over until the end of the Session, was there any objection made ?—No ; it was agreed at once that it should be so. 367. You say you did not infer from Mr. Harrison's manner or tone that he considered your proposals to be of an improper character ?—No ; certainly not. 368. When you expressed the desire to Mr. Harrison that this particular vote should not be brought down, did you not use the word " we," meaning Mr. Brogden, were anxious the then Government should remain in office ?—No ; I did not put it in that way. I said to Mr. Harrison, "If your party are sure of a good working majority, then by all means vote with them; but do not let us have a ' see-saw ' Government, incapable of entertaining any of tho proposals that may be made to it." 369. Then you state the " we " did not refer to Mr. Brogden at all ?—No; it did not. _ 370. It was simply made use of as a general expression, in order that the Public Works undertakings might not be prevented from being gone on with ?—lt was simply a desire to have a Government that could entertain these large proposals. 371. Was not this pledge of secrecy mentioned until after Mr. Harrison and yourself had returned from having a glass of sherry ? —No ; it was not mentioned at all until after then. 372. Mr. Harrison is not correct then in stating that it was made early in the day ? —No; not one word was said about secrecy early in the day. 373. Were the matters for which the confidence was bespoke matters of very great importance ? —No ; not of very groat importance. It related to the tactics that were going on, and what had taken place at certain caucuses. The expression made use of on that occasion was, to the best of my recollection, as follows : —" Now, what lam going to tell you now is between us and the four walls." These are the very words. I then spoke confidentially to him on the strength of that pledge. 374. Did Mr. Harrison know that you had spoken to Mr. Brogden with regard to him?—No ; I do not think he did. 375. Are you aware of any other proposals having been made to Mr. Brogden to employ Mr. Harrison to write up these proposals ?—I am not aware of any other proposal having been made excepting my own intimation to Mr. Brogden. 376. Mr. Harrison.] You stated that I extracted a pledge of secrecy from you. Will you just tell us under what circumstances ; what did I say ? —You began by using the expression " What I am now going to state is to bo kept between us and the four walls." You then went on to state what was to take place at a certain caucus. That unless Mr. Vogel had a pledged majority of not less than four you would not support him. You would be no party to a factious opposition. 377. I stated then that I would not give my support to any vote of want of confidence unless there was ah assured majority ? —Yes. 378. I also told you I would be no party to any factious opposition ?—You did. 379. Was there anything in that which rendered it necessary to exact a pledge of secrecy?—l really don't know. The fact remains that you did exact this promise of secrecy. 380. The Hon. Mr. Fox.] I want to know how much of Mr. Harrison's statement you admit, and how much of it you deny. In Mr. Harrison's evidence, page 1, he states: " Mr. Holt replied, It is because you are a Member that your services will be useful." Is that correct? Did you say so ?— No ; I did not. 381. Again, you are reported to have said, " We have no desire to control your vote in any way, but we thought you might use your influence to prevent any motion being brought forward by the Opposition this Session which might lead to a change of Government." Is that correct ?—I want to say that I did not make use of the word "we" in that sense. If I had, I would have used the word Brogden. At that part of the conversation, I believe, Mr. Tribe was present. 382. In what sense, then, did you use the " we"? —I used the "we "as one of a political party. 383. Oh, are you then one of a political party ?—I am, in the sense that you would speak of one of your own party. 384. I have been the acknowledged leader of a political party for many years back. Do you mean that you are one of a political party in that sense of the word ?—No. 385. I cannot see, then, what you meant by using the word " we," ?—I said one of a party, I think. I meant that; but I have had no communication of any kind with Mr. Stafford. 386. Is it correct that you stated, " You have considerable influence over Mr. Vogel. You can prevent him bringing in a vote against the Government this year." Is that the case ?—Yes. 387. Did you say, " Hang it, man, you have had your turn, let them have their innings. We want no further change to take place this Session "? —I do not think I put the "we" in there. I did not put the " we " in the last sentence. 388. How much, then, did you put in, and how much did you leave out ? That is what I want to find out. " Innings," is that right?— Very likely. 389. " Any further change of Government," is that correct?—l do not think I put that in 7

Mr. Holt

14th Oct., 1872,