REPORT OE THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE.

21

H.—No. 7

spoken to Mr. Vogel. In the course of that day several Members spoke to me about it, so that it must have been the subject of some conversation before I received the letter from Mr. Harrison. 269. Had Mr. Vogel any conversation with you on the subject ?—Yes. 270. Then I understand from that, that previous to your giving Mr. Harrison the advice that he was at liberty to disclose the facts related, and bound to'do so, the matter was evidently abroad and known to other persons ?—I could not say, because it was in the course of the same day that several Members spoke to me ; I could not say that it was before I saw Mr. Harrison, because I only saw him at eleven o'clock on the morning of Wednesday. 271. It was on Wednesday, about eleven o'clock, that you were originally consulted in the matter ?—Yes; and to the best of my knowledge I had no conversation with Mr. Harrison of any kind on the subject before that time. 272. When did you hear from any other person about it ?—I cannot be sure whether it was before or after I saw Mr. Harrison, that several Members asked me whether I had heard anything of this, and spoke to mo about it; but I did not enter into conversation with anybody on the subject till afterwards : I should not have felt it right to do so. 273. Can you recollect whether Mr. Vogel spoke to you on the subject prior to Mr. Harrison speaking to you on the subject ? —I think he did, but I cannot be sure. 274. Mr. Travers.] Mr. Bell has stated this: " I should have considered any proposition by Mr. Brogden's representative in the direction indicated as a disgraceful one." Did you understand from Mr. Harrison that the proposition was made by Mr. Holt in the character of Mr. Brogden's representative?— Certainly, I understood so ; but I am not sure whether he said so. 275. But you were led to understand that Mr. Holt was then acting with Mr. Brogden's authority in making the proposal ?—I was led to understand that that was Mr. Harrison's belief. In my own case, I did not suspect Mr. Brogden of anything of the sort. 276. You understood that it was Mr. Harrison's belief that Mr. Holt was acting in the character of an authorized agent?— Precisely. 277. May I ask you, whether you advised Mr. Harrison to make any direct inquiry from Mr. Brogden himself, as to whether such a proposition as that reported to you was made with his sanction or previous authority?—No, I did not. 278. You, I presume, acted upon the belief or supposition that Mr. Harrison's belief was a wellfounded one in regard to the representative character of Mr. Holt ?—No, I cannot say that I did. My own belief in the matter was this : that a very disgraceful proposal had been made to Mr. Harrison, and that if Mr. Brogden were mixed up in it, it would be a thing that ought to be stamped out at once. 279. You have known Mr. Brogden for some time, so far as his connection with New Zealand ? —Yes. 280. You have known him for a considerable period ?—Yes. 281. Have you any reason to think that Mr. Brogden would make such a proposal ?—No, not at all. 282. I believe you have known Mr. Holt for some years ?—Yes. 283. Was he not for a long period an officer in the Civil Service ?—Yes. 284. Had you known anything of him to lead you to suppose that he would do such an act as that which has been suggested ?—Certainly not; and I told Mr. Harrison he was making a very grave charge against a gentleman who had held a high position, and that it was a very serious matter for him to make that charge. 285. Mr. Harrison.] You have stated to the Committee that I told you that, at a certain stage of the conversation between myself and Mr. Holt, I said to Mr. Holt that I had been entrapped under false pretences. I ask you if your memory is sufficiently clear with regard to what took place between us in that interview, that it might not bo possible for you to have misunderstood me, and that I said to you, " that I felt, at a particular period of the conversation with Mr. Holt, that I had been entrapped under false pretences ?"—lt is of course possible I may have misunderstood Mr. Harrison ; but my recollection is perfectly clear on the point, and for this reason : that it was the use of that phrase that at once established in my mind tho idea that Mr. Harrison deserved great credit for having forthwith put a stop to so disgraceful a proposal. 286. Mr. Fox.] Would not the impression have been equally made on your mind whether Mr. Harrison stated to you that he told Mr. Holt that he had been entrapped, or whether he only said to you that, feeling entrapped, he told Mr. Holt the conversation should cease ? Would not that have equally brought to your mind the idea that Mr. Harrison had done right in putting an end to the negotiation, whatever it was ?—I dare say it would ; but the impression was strikingly made upon me by the statement that an immediate stop, in those terms, was put to the interview. 287. An immediate stop being put to the interview was that which had force in making you think that Mr. Harrison had done right in putting a stop to the conversation ? —No, but its being done in those terms ; however, I should have equally thought so if the conversation had been summarily put a stop to. Witness was thanked, and withdrew. The Committee then adjourned.

Son. F. D. Bell. 10th Oct., 1872.

Saturday, 12th October, 1872. Mr. Charles Lemon was in attendance, and, on being sworn, was examined as follows : — 288. Mr. Travers (as Counsel for Mr. Holt) ] You are the Manager of the Telegraph Department ? —Yes. 289._ Is it not the custom of the officer receiving a telegraphic message, to mark the hour at which it is received at the office ?—Yes. 290. That is part of the ordinary duty of the person receiving the telegram ? —Yes. 291. Have you the original message of a telegram delivered for transmission to the Daily Southern Cross ? —I have not got it along with me. 6

Mr. Lemon. 12th Oct., 1272.