E—No. 1 Sec. 11.

the others promising to pay one pound for every Maori that they made drunk: and it was in accordance with these agreements that fines were inflicted. Ruia's kegs of spirits have not been "seized," they are only detained by the owners of the vessel. Thompson says that he finds great fault with tho captain for not having at once sent them back on shore again, when he found out what Ruia had put on board; but the captain gave him notice that he left them at his own peril, and that they would not be given up to him at Piako. I explained to Thomson that he and his Runanga could do nothing with the spirits without committing an unlawful act, and then pointed out how the traffic in spirits conld be legally suppressed, and how much the Government desired to assist them in promoting the good of their people. Thompson replied that he had long looked for Government assistance, and had iooked in vain, and had now tried to set up a system of his own. He said that that the iveka, once escaped from the snare, was not easily caught again. I said that no one desired to deceive them, and I would tell him frankly all that the Governor wished to do ; that, if they did not choose to have our help, the Governor would find others to occupy himself with, and that they would see others advance in civilization, and themselves left behind, 1 then explained the whole of the Governor's scheme to the best of my ability, and especially impressed upon him that the Governor would make the law a bulwark for them and for their children for ever. He seemed much impressed, and I fancied very much pleased : but he only observed that it was a very serious question, and one that the Chiefs of Waikato would have to decide, —that the young men could be managed easily enough, but the old men would give trouble. On Friday, wc went down together to the school, and had some further conversation, and I stayed at the school that night. On Saturday, I did not go near Thompson, as I thou.ht it better not to seem to press him. On Sunday, we went up in the morning to Peria; Thompson said that Tioriori had been there on Saturday, and that they both agreed in opinion about what I had said. They liked the Governor's plans very much, everything except the idea of submitting to the Queen, and sending their laws for the Governor's assent. Tioriori wanted us to go over to Arikima, anel he (Thomson) would accompany us; we could there tell the Governor's plans to the Chiefs, and they would all consider about them: but he still intimated that he would not accept them unless all Waikato agreed to do so- I thought it therefore best to accept this invitatien, as the majority of the Ngatihaua tribe is now cultivating in the neighbourhood of Arikima. Tioriori has summoned a number of people from the neighbourhood to come here to-night, and we are to have a Runanga on the subject of the Governor's scheme.

Tuesday, December 3rd.

The meeting lasted the greater part of the night. The first subject of discussion was, whether they should accept an invitation of Walter Kuk,atai's to go and meet the Governor, and whether they should invite him to come to Ngaruawahia or Tamahere. Most of the opinions seemed favourable: but a Runanga does not divide or come to a definite decision. They then proceeded to discuss the object of my being sent to Wm. Thompson. I again explained the Governor's plans, and gave four reasons for having his assent to their laws : (1) that they might be published for the benefit of everyone in the country; (2) that all conflict of laws might be avoided, so that the law would bo one; (3) that, as their laws often concerned Europeans as well as Maories, the Governor should assent on behalf of the Europeans that the laws might be binding on all; (4 J that the Queen might bo pledged to maintain their laws, so that they would stand for ever. The first and third reasons appeared to produce conviction, and they all declared that they agreed to have the Governor's assent to their laws. Thompson made a speech, expressing his approval of the plan, but then he said that Matutaera'. consent as well as the Governor's should be obtained, and he asked ifl thought there was anything wrong in that? I replied that I could not call it either right or wrong, it was simply useless; if the Governor and the Runanga agreed, who cared about Matutaera's opinion? I said I had shown him the good produced by the Governor's agreement, and challenged him to show the good produced by Matutaera's opinion being given except as a member of the Runanga. He would give no reply. But he said that if the King and the flag were left, all the rest would be assented to by the whole of AVaikato.

As the flag was mentioned, I said I had a message from the Governor about it, which I gave him. He still persisted in saying " Let the Runanga make the laws, and let them be assented to by the Governor and Matutaera, and then be established." Please send me instructions upon this subject. There was a great deal of discussion about letters sent to Auckland by Heta from the Rapa, and by Andrew Patene from Karakariki; Thompson was very angry about them, and said that they were full of falsehoods. The Runanga at Ngaruawahia has been lately publishing a law requiring all cattle travelling through the country to have passports, to check cattle-stealing. The chief reason against inviting the Governor which they all alleged, was the want of food, which is scarce, as I can testify by experience. They had a letter of Mr. Ashwell, saying that the Governor did not care about that. I did not like to offer any food, as they are easily offended at anything that looks like an attempt to bribe. Palmer says that the whole discussion about meeting the Governor turned, not on whether they should meet him or not, hut upon how they could do so without giving offence to other tribes ; and that their opinion lean.d to having him at Tamahere. I feel certain that Thompson and his tribe are sincerely desirous of having law established; they have all declared that they are anxious that I should remain here to show them the law, but they have the fear of Ngatimaniapoto before their eyes. Since writing the above, I have had a little more talk with Thompson; he says they agree to the laws being made by the Runanga Maori, and assented to by the Governor and Matutaera; but he will not say more till he has been to Tamahere. He says "in the multitude of councellors there is safety." Thompson, who is looking on as I write, begs me to add that he pledges himself to nothing till he has been at Tamahere and Ngaruawahia.

I have, &c, The Hon. AV. Fox. J. E. Gorst,

46

DESPATCHES FROM GOVERNOR SIR G. GREY