TE KOPUA MEETING. (REPORTS, ETC., RESPECTING THE PROCEEDINGS.)

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1879 Session I, G-02

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1879. NEW ZEALAND.

TE KOPUA MEETING. (REPORTS, ETC., RESPECTING THE PROCEEDINGS.)

Presented to both Souses of Iha General Assembly by Command of Sis Excellency. Eewt Manga Maniapoto to Sir George Geey and Mr. Sheehan. To Sir Geoege Geet and Mr. Sheehan, Auckland. Alexandra, 28th April, 1879. Kopua, 28th April, 1879. Salutations to you both! I will not hide my word, but I will give it to you both. Do you come hither to-morrow, with all your people [tribes] to Te Kopua. From Eewi Manga Maniapoto. [From the New Zealand Herald, May I.] Ngaruawahia, "Wednesday. The special train conveying the Ministers to Waikato, for the purpose of turning the first sod of the Waikato and Thames Railway, at Hamilton, and to attend the Native meeting at Te Kopua, left the Auckland station at ten minutes after 3 o'clock, and arrived at Ngaruawaliia at 7 o'clock. There were no stoppages, except to take in water and coal. There were in the train Sir George Grey and Mr. J. Sheehan, with their Private Secretaries, Messrs. ~W. Mitchell and C. H. Moss ; Mr. T. W. Lewis, Under Secretary, Native Department; Mr. E. 11. D. Fergusson, Mr. Armstrong, solicitor, Enorea, Hori Ngatia, Topa Tearoa, Mr. Henry Mitchell, Land Purchase Agent, Mr. Northcroff, R.M. Mr. A. V. Macdonald, railway manager, also accompanied the train. [From the New Zealand Herald, May 2.] Ngaruawahia, Thursday. Dueing the day a message was received by Sir George Grey from Tawhiao, saying that he could not understand why there should be any question of invitation, as the meeting was arranged. Eewi Manga Maniapoto to Sir Geoege Geet. To Geet. Kopua, 2nd May, 1879. Friend, salutations to you ! Do you and Paul come with your Native and European people to-morrow. That is all. From Manga. [From the New Zealand Herald, May 3.] Alexandra, Friday. The Premier, the Native Minister, and party left Ngaruawahia at 8 o'clock to-day. I think I forgot to say that Mr. Seymour George, M.H.8., and Mr. Moss, M.H.E., were with us. The morning was fine. In my yesterday's despatch I referred to a message which had been conveyed to Ministers from Tawhiao, who expressed surprise that there should be any doubt about their coming to the meeting. I have seen the telegram, which is plainly as I stated ; but yesterday afternoon there also came a telegram, proceeding, I believe, indirectly from Te Ngakau, which intimated that Tawhiao did not desire that Ministers should come to the meeting. I cannot tell what to make of it. Probably Tawhiao does not know his own mind, and makes different propositions to different people. 7.50 p.m. The Premier and Native Minister, on landing from the steamer, were received by the Natives who are encamped here, and who formed two lines on the road. A good number of Europeans had also assembled. In a former telegram you were informed that a message had been received, purporting 1o come from Te Ngakau, and to convey the mind of Tawhiao, stating that Ministers were not wanted at Te Kopua. Inquiries were made of Tawhiao, who denied that he had ever authorized such a message, and said the meeting was waiting on Ministers. I—G. 2.

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[From the New Zealand Herald, May 5.] Alexandra, Saturday. The Hon. the Premier and the Native Minister left Alexandra about half-past 9 o'clock, on their way to the place of embarkation, in the two large war-canoes To Ateireha and Te Aparanga. They were accompanied by Messrs. E. Hobbs, M.H.R ; E. McMinn, M.H.E.; P. J. Moss, M.H.li. ;S. Von Stunner, E.M.; B. S. Bush, E.M.; W. H. Grace, Native Agent; T. W. Lewis, U.S.; W. Mitchell, Private Secretary for the Premier; C. H. Moss, Private Secretary for the Native Minister. A considerable number of Europeans rode from Alexandra to the place of meeting. There were about forty people in one canoe and fifty in the other, and in the quiet reaches of the Waipa we had some exciting racing spurts. Both canoes, however, were somewhat overladen, and the task of paddling was a hard one in the places where the current was strong. The day was splendid, even for the Upper Waikato. At one place I, with others, left the canoe we were in to enable the Natives to get it over some rapids. Ascending a small hill, we had a magnificent view of the plain of Waipa, and at about three miles from us could be seen the scattered tents of the Maori encampment, stretching over apparently miles of level land on the banks of the river. The journey on the river was, on the whole, a most enjoyable one. Several times the canoes grounded, and struck on snags, but the Natives, with the greatest good humour and readiness, jumped into the water and floated the canoes again. At about a quarter to 2 o'clock we reached the place of debarkation, and clambering up the steep bank of the river, found a number of Europeans and Maoris awaiting our arrival. Amongst the former were the Eev. T. Buddie and Eev. Mr. Schnackenberg, who have been missionaries amongst the Maoris for a great many years. Near the place of landing was a group of acacia trees, which Mr. Buddie informed us he had planted when ho came to establish a Wesleyan mission at the Kopua in 1840. This is his first visit since the war, and he has been holding religious services among the Natives. We may say that, the Hauhaus did not attend these services. Tawhiao has kept himself entirely aloof, not only from the European visitors, but even from chiefs of rank from other districts ; even Tuhuiuo, from Ohinemutu, who is carrving out the King's policy in that district, has not been allowed to have a private interview with the King. Tawhiao is surrounded by a number of men who prevent him from mingling with the bulk of the people, who are getting dissatisfied with their continual isolation. From conversation with the Natives assembled at the landing-place, I gathered that a great many of the Kingites were much dissatisfied with the reserved and uncertain attitude assumed by Tawhiao, and are not inclined to support him in such a course much longer. On landing, Sir George G-rey and the Hon. Mr. Sheehan were received by Major Te Wheoro, Wiremu Patene, and the Eev. Hete Tarawhiti. On reaching the level ground there were about two hundred of the Lower Waikatos assembled, armed with double-barrelled guns, from which they discharged a feu de joie. Te Ealia and Te Hakariwai, dressed in native mats, then welcomed the Premier and Native Minister on behalf of their tribe. The firing party then fell in and marched four deep in front of the Ministerial party, and in a few minutes thereafter they were met by a party of the Ngatimaniapoto tribe, who also fired a salute, and formed the advance guard. The Ngatimaniapotos performed one of the dances usual on occasions of welcome to distinguished visitors, when a large party in front commenced the call of welcome, accompanied with waving of shawls. The Lower Wmkatos then formed in line, and the Ministerial party, preceded by Eewi's people, advanced to the square that had been appointed for their reception. The Lower Waikatos then discharged a salute, and seated themselves on the ground. A section of the Taupo Natives, comprising the leading chiefs of that district, then came forward, and were received by Eewi in persou and his people. The whole of the Natives then seated themselves, leaving a large open space in the centre. There were present at the place between 1,500 and 2,000 Natives, but Tawhiao and the extreme Kingites remained at their camping-ground, and took no part in the preliminary reception. After a pause, — Mori te Koria, one of the Ngapuhis who had come from the Bay of Islands with the Premier, and who is a leading descendant of the famous chief Hongi, came forward and said: Welcome your guests. The Ngapuhi come here bringing with them authority of old from the time of Governor Hobson. A chief of Ngatiraukawa replied, welcoming the visitors. Iloni Mold Taivlta spoke a few words, and was followed by Hauharu, a leading chief connected with the Ngatimaniapoto, who welcomed the Northern tribes and Sir George Grey. He said : Come where you were wont to come in the days of old ! This place of conference is yours. Welcome to Waikato! You have been in the habit of travelling in all parts. Welcome here this day ! (Song.) Parapue, of Kaipara, said : We have come here to Waikato, and the daylight is around us all. A party of armed Natives from Taupo and the Upper Wanganui, headed by Major Kemp, Te Wetere, and Taonui, then came forward, and after the usual greeting they conducted the Ministerial party to the house of the Messrs. Thompson. On the way thither they were met by other bodies of Natives, who welcomed them in Maori custom. On arrival at Messrs. Thompson's, refreshments were provided liberally. This morning the Taupo chiefs at Alexandra presented an address to the Premier and Native Minister. They expressed their loyalty, and went over the boundaries of their territory, extending in the centre of the Island from Waikato by Tongariro to Wanganui. They declared that all.this country was open ; that they would give lands for townships, and they desired that the railway which was to go from Auckland to Wellington should pass through their country. Sir George Grey replied, saying that he would keep their requests in mind. Alexandra, Sunday. At Ngaruawahia, Sir George Grey received, as I stated before, an unfavourable telegram transmitted by Mr. Grace, and conveying the substance of a letter by Te Ngakau. A directly contrary statement, however, reached him through Te Wheoro. On arriving at Alexandra the Premier received a copy of the letter. The original was in the possession of Mr. Eoberts, of Alexandra, who

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stated to Mr. Bush, E.M., that he was to deliver it personally to Sir George Grey. The Premier, however, did not see Mr. Eoberts, and the letter remains in his possession. The folio wing ia a translation of the words of the letter : —" Kopua, May 1,1879. —To Sir George Grey : Friend, —If you are coming to me, I have not asked you; for I finished with you at Hikurangi. There is nothing for you to do here. Stop to rest at Alexandra.—From Tttkaroto." I would give the Maori words, but I find that telegraphists make such a mess of Maori that Ido not send them. I can publish the Maori version if required. Subsequently to the receipt of this letter, Te Wheoro saw Tawhiao in the presence of Te Ngakau, and Tawhiao then said that he knew nothing of the letter. Tawhiao is, no doubt, influenced by Te Ngakau unfavourably to Sir George Grey, and also by Manuhiri, and it is known that these two are dealt with by certain Europeans.

[From the New Zealand Herald, May B.] Te Kopua, "Wednesday, 12.30 p.m. The meeting was finally appointed for to-day, but the weather is at present doubtful. The proceedings of the Government depend upon Tawhiao, and his course of procedure is quite unknown. The Europeans in waiting are all very weary. It is impossible to go about owing to the state of the country. Alexandra, "Wednesday. About one o'clock all the Natives were assembled near the quarters of Tawhiao. There were about 1,500 Natives present. Amongst the Europeans were Eev. Mr. Buddie, Rev. Mr. Schnaekenberg, Major Mair, Major Jackson, and Mr. Searancke. All the royal guards were assembled before Tawhiao's house, under arms. A table was brought up for Ministers, and those who had to chronicle events and speeches carried chairs and candle boxes to serve as seats. Ministers and party came up accompanied by the Northern Natives. Rewi was very busy and excited, marshalling the Natives. The Premier was seated, with the Native Minister on one side and Paul Tuhaere on the other. The Under Secretary of the Native Department, Mr. McMinn, Mr. Moss, Mr. George, Mr. Hobbs, M.H.E.'s, and others were around him. In a few minutes after Ministers had been seated, a company of young men, having their heads dressed in feathers, marched to the place. They marched in slow time, and were preceded by Te Ngakau. Tawhiao and Wahanui came together. Of the officers the general had a dragoon's helmet, given to him by Mr. O'Connor, of Auckland. Another had a red tunic. The body guard consists of 180 men, most of them armed with double-barrelled guns, and some with spears and pistols. They kept very fair military order. It was quite an imposing military parade. The officers wore swords and cartouche boxes, apparently the spoil of battle. After forming in rank, prayers were said, in which Tawhiao's soldiers only joined. The guard then seated themselves, enclosing Tawhiao, except in front. After a pause, Tawhiao, who was dressed with feathers, and had a piece of white linen around him, stood up and said : Listen ! listen, my fathers, my ciders, listen ! Listen, the people from the South ! from there extending to the North Cape aud down this side, listen! Listen all ye people ! Listen all ye people, to this word. The chiefs of this Island, of this district, listen! There is no one whatever to cause disturbance extending to every part. The word is this: Potatau alone is the ancestor of all people. Potatau alone is the chief of this Island, of you all, and you cannot deny it. The whole of this country was Potatau's. There is another one: Eewi is there on that side. On that side, then, he is one, and lam another. These are my councillors ; for this reason I say the land is mine. I have alone the right to conduct the business of my country. I will not hide what I have to say. I will utter it in the midst of you all. I will write it down amongst you. Listen carefully! A letter from the Queen was received by Potatau, stating that Europeans were coming to this Island, and Potatau replied, " Let them not come here." They were told to remain away, and not come to this Island. Eor this reason I say listen carefully. I therefore say this: Sir George Grey has no right to conduct matters on this Island, but I have the sole right to conduct matters in my land —from the North Cape to the southern end. No one else has any right. Ido not consent to any of the arrangements which prevail on this Island. One of these things is the bringing of war into this country. It must be taken right away back to other places. We must not have fighting here. This is what I have to say. There is not to be any fighting whatever ; neither about roads, leases, nor about anything else. Let fighting be kept away to the other side. He (Sir George Grey) has no right to conduct matters in this Island. That is whyl say all things must be returned, and sent away from here [meaning all English customs]. There will be no evils to-morrow, or next day; none whatever. Eewi then rose from his seat and went to where Tawhiao was, and sat down near him. After a pause the Kingites had prayers. Wahanui said: I wish to speak of the words that have beeu uttered this day. I wish all assembled here to listen to these words. These are the only words that will be uttered during the whole of this day. Wi Maihi ie Eanqi Kahelce then recited a religious chant, in which those around joined in a kind of response at intervals. Te Heuheu said :I am not going to interrupt and shut up these words uttered by Tawhiao. From the duys of Potatau they have not been broken. lam from the South. "What I am going to do ia to hold these words. Major Kemp said : The bell has been rung and the people have assembled to prayers. The Bishop has spoken and preached. I am a Government man. All the people of this assembly have had prayers. The Bishop on that side has spoken to the Bishop on this side. He has not spoken. His words are still to be uttered. lam speaking in the interest of Sir G. Grey. If this is the day when all words are to be uttered, let them (Sir G. Grey and Mr. Sheehan) also speak. Let them speak! Te Wheoro said: If the visitors wish to speak they can do so. I am going to keep my words back. I agree with "Wahanui that the last people or tribe when the time comes will speak, but if the visitors wish to speak they may do so. Te Ngakau said : It has been said that each tribe should now break up and go away, and to-

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morrow come back and speak their words. Let each of these parties go back and ponder over what has been said. Let them come to their conclusions, and to-morrow utter them here. Te Wheoro said : Very well. Let it be so. The meeting then broke up.

[From the New Zealand Herald, May 10.] Te Kopua, Thursday, Bth May. In the forenoon the weather was rainy, making it impossible, to have any outside gathering. About 3 o'clock the rain passed off, and a message was brought to Sir George Grey, informing him that the Kingites were assembling. "When the Europeans reached the meeting-place they found the Natives in a large circle. There were about 2,000 persons present, which was somewhat fewer than ou the previous day. Tawhiao was not present, and there was no military display on the part of the Kingites. Ministers having been seated, and a pause having taken place, Hone Mohi Tawhai said: lam of Ngapuhi. lam asking whether it is right of me to speak now, when so many great men are absent, or are we to wait until all are assembled ? Te Wheoro said: It is getting late now. We had better speak in this order—first, those of Aupouri, then of Barawa, Ngapuhi, Ngatiwhatua, of Hauraki, of Tauranga, of Te Arawa, of Taupo, of Te Urewera, of Te Whanauapanui, of Ngatiporou, of Ngatikahungahunga, then Ngatitoa, then Ngatiraukawa, of Kapiti, then "Whanganui, then Ngatiruauui, then Taranaki, then Te Atiawa, then Taiaroa, and, lastly, myself. I speak in this way that people will not hesitate, and each tribe can follow one another, and speak what they have to say. Himi said: There are none of the Aupouri here. I am of Te llarawa. The words were spoken yesterday, and it was said that we should return to our camps and ponder over what had been said. I have come to this conclusion: The last meeting of Sir George Grey aud Tawhiao was with respect to the land. Yesterday the laws were mentioned. lam of opinion that it was not right to speak of the laws now. There is no trouble here. I wanted to hear the laws that were being made by Tawhiao. I come with my eyes to see and vay ears to hear. Hone Mohi Taichia said: What was said yesterday by Tawhiao was to this effect: Potatau was the man who owned the land from the extreme South to the utmost North. He has said that each person should go back to his house and think over these words. I am going to speak respecting Ngapuhi alone. Now listen! I reply in this way. Governor Hobson arrived amongst the Ngapuhis, the Treaty of Waitangi was made, and the whole of ray parents came under that treaty. They agreed to hand over all their lands and their bodies and all their heirs after them to be under the power of the Treaty of Waitangi. From the time of my parents until now, as I stand here, they have all been under the Treaty of Waitangi. Our lands, our bodies, our children, —they are all under the Treaty of Waitangi. The Treaty of Waitangi was agreed to by all the tribes of the Island as far as Taiaroa. Secondly, respecting the chieftainship,—it belongs to the whole of the people assembled here. From the days of our ancestors we put ourselves under the protection of the Queen until this day, and I am still under her protection. Thirdly, respecting what Wahanui said, that all the people should assemble and listen to the words that were spoken yesterday ; my answer is this : The whole of us have been assembled and collected from the days of our fathers under the shadow of the Queen. Te Hemera (Mahurangi) said :lam of Ngatiwhatua. Greetings to all you people! My opinion is this: I came to see you, the people. I came to see my parent (Sir George Grey) and my son (Tawhiao). This is the reason the Ngatiwhatua came here—to see the work of the father and the son during the past year, and to see the result of the good of their work; and if it should be wrong it cannot be helped. That is why the people of Kaipara and Tamaki have come here. All have come to hear his words. So have I come. For this reason Ngatiwhatua have come to listen to the result of what they are saying respecting the laws for the benefit of the Island—whether the Island should see daylight, or whether all should be put in darkness. PaiaJca aaii: Do not speak just now. Wait till the persons come who have to listen to your words. When they come the man who first spoke will have to commence again. Never mind should the sun set. Paora Tuhaere (Orakei) : What means this talking? I thought the question was asked whether the people were here who had to listen to what was said. It should have been answered that the people wore not present, and to wait for them before the speaking commenced. After several people from the North have spoken, they then say " Stop speaking." My opinion is tha-t if he (Tawhiao) is absent, he has stopped away. He has left the bank clear, and the birds are slill upon it. lam looking around, and I agree with Te Wheoro's proposition. We are not speaking to them alone ; we are considering how we should speak at them. liarawa, N^apuhi, and Ngatiwhatua have spoken respecting their lauds that they should be left to themselves. If the sun went backwards towards the east, then he would be right; but the sun is going the other way and it would be dark, and we are not inside a house. Waikato, your speeches are always troublesome and difficult to understand. They are not clear. Maihi Te Rangikaheke (Arawa) repeated a proverb, suggesting that matters should be arranged amicably. Paora Tuhaere : It does not matter if we do not reply to what has been said, for he told us this was the day for us to reply to what was said yesterday, and if he chooses to remain away it makes no difference to us. The people will hear what we have to say. James Thompson (half-caste) suggested that the speakers should stand in the centre of the circle, so that all might hear. Major Te Wheoro said: The person who asked the question spoke rightly, and directly the speeches commenced somebody from that side interrupted. It is all from you on that side that this confusion has arisen.

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Eauauru (Ngatimaniapoto) said: It was the people on that side who caused the confusion. You, the people on the opposite side, did not say that the men (Tawhiao and Wahanui) and their people had not arrived. We sent a messenger, who came back and told us that wo were talking for nothing, that we were wasting time. Wi Pile aim said: lam from Muriwhenua (North Cape), where the spirits depart. Listen, O "Waikato, to what I have to say! (Song.) [At this point, Te Ngakau, Wahanui, and others of the extreme Kingites arrived.] I hold the law fast in my hands. My fathers established it and held it, and my father (Poroa) told us to hold to it until now. When he died a new generation sprung up, and they clang to the same. He told us to hold to the faith as well. Look ! You will see no red feathers in that country [meaning emblems of war]. I thought my relative, Tawhiao, was there, so that he could see me and I could see him. Hirini Tuiwhanna said: I am a Ngapuhi. My word is this. From the commencement of the fighting in New Zealand, when Sir George Grey went away to England, I said that Sir George Grey alone could give us peace, and I have been of that opinion until the time that ho returned. I thought wo should not seek elsewhere for our salvation. He alone is our salvation. If his face disappears from us we have no one to look to. If we seek for knowledge elsewhere we cannot find it. We will never find another friend like him. We ought to listen to all his teachings, and not hesitate, for there are matters that may trouble us hereafter. Te Wake said: lamof Te Karawa, from Hokianga. The King's words were made known to us yesterday. They were given to .ill the people of the Island to consider, and each hapu has considered them. Now I tell him what my reply is: In old times each tribe had its own chief, and each hapu had its own chief. At that time no Europeans were in the Island. All the bad works were carried on by our ancestors in those days; no good law was ever laid down. They did all that was evil in the world. When the Europeans arrived they brought knowledge into this Island. They landed at the Bay of Islands, and the Ngapuhi took up the European ideas, and the former slate of things was concluded. From that day to this we still cleave to that opinion, that we should abandon the old customs. The advice yesterday was that we should unite under the King's word. I will not do so; I will not put myself under him ; I will have nothing to do with the King. Let the people who choose do so. Hone Paraia (John Bryers) said : I am a Ngapuhi from Hokianga; I stand up to reply to some of the words that were delivered to us yesterday. One of us just now has spoken, and has plainly told you what our course is. I follow that course, and will not depart from it. One of the words spoken by Tawhiao yesterday—namely, that there should be no lighting whatever —that is the word I approve of. But, friend Tawhiao, if you wish to have that word fullilled, this is the road for you to go : Come over to this side, and cling to our father (Sir George Grey). Let both of you become one, and stop all this confusion and trouble. If you seek elsewhere for a road by which you will bo benefited, you will not find it. Come over —-jump over to this side, and embrace your father. 2lajor Kemp said : I am from the South. The North has spoken. I said yesterday that the people were assembled. I will go back to what Tawhiao said at first—what he said was good. I approve of him speaking what he thought when asking a question of his Maori people. I came here for this reason —that Sir George Grey has seen you once, twice, and this is the third time. The bell was rung in March, that all the people should assemble here. The day was put off, but we are now here. 1 came to listen to what Sir George Grey and the King had to say. I have come here now as a listener. I take no notice of what other people say. I listen to what they have to say, whether they agree or not. This is where we should assemble. [Pointing to Sir George Grey, he said:] That pakeha was once your enemy, but now he desires to be your friend. I thought you two would this day rest together. 1 did not come here to judge, but I came here to hear you speak to Sir George Grey, and Sir George Grey to you. Ton told us to go back to the house, but what is the use of that ? We are all Maoris —my handle is a European handle. We will destroy one another by the way we conduct ourselves. I thought that this day Sir George Grey was making his fence, and that you were making your fence. I wished to hear what you had to say. JEnoka (Ngaiterangi) said : The Ngaiterangi came here to listen and to see. Wata Tipa (Ngatipaoa) said :I am from Hauraki. Nothing brought us here but to listen to the discussion between Tawhiao and Sir George Grey, whatever the result may be. A chief of Ngatituwharetoa, of Taupo, said: Salutations to you, King Tawhiao, and all the chiefs and all the people who are assembled at this council! This is the word Tuwharetoa has to say respecting the words that were uttered by Tawhiao yesterday. We reply that this tribe of Tuwharetoa is under the shadow of the law and of the Government. The laws of the Government are in my hand, with all their works—not that I am going to sow them in your district, but I am going to sow them in my own district, Taupo, under my own mana. Wi Maihi said: I. am a Native. Hawaiki is the country from whence I came. Through the improprieties of Tama te Kapua I came here. This is a proverb of Hawaiki. There is only one man in Hawaiki, aud that is Whakatau. This man Whakatau used to eat human beings. That was his work. It was for this reason I came to Aotearoa (New Zealand). When men came to Aotearoa, Manawhiti was to be the man of this Island. He did not live. When our ancestors arrived he was far above. He had been dead a long time. lam the chief of those three canoes. This is not my own saying, but a proverb. It was through me (the Arawa) that the chieftainship of Matatua and Tainui was made small. Now, the Word of God has arrived, and washed away the blood from our hands — from this man and that man. The word of St. Paul the Apostle was, that the fence between us should bo thrown down. Then we know that we are brothers. The seal was allised to that by making the Treaty of Waitangi. I will say something briefly in reply to Tawhiao's words. My advice to you is that you should write down your words. I wish you now to give me your name, and sign it at once. My son, do not give me your words only, but give me your heart. Give me your name, that it may be sictned to the document, so that the words may come true that the sword has been sheathed. Listen, Oh son! Jehovah, the God of Hosts, is abovo us, and let Jehovah listen to our discussions amongst all this people. Listen to these proposals that were made before you by Sir George Grey at a previous

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meeting. Firstly, my son, that you and the Queen Victoria should make peace, in accordance with the Treaty of Waitangi. Secondly, oh, my son, that you and Queen Victoria should become one under the Treaty of Waitangi, by which the old mana over the land was given to the chiefs. Thirdly, arrange that Sir George Grey should be the head and Premier of the Parliament of New Zealand. Fourthly, you, Tawhiao, shall conduct the matters of your people, and Sir George Grey will conduct the affairs of the European side, and you two come to a conclusion respecting the laws for the two races. During the past time Government alone have been making tho laws for the two peoples. Now let you and Sir George Grey unite and become one. Fifthly, it'you and Sir George Grey do not become one to-day, you will have shown that you do not agree to what Sir George Grey has proposed. You have said that the Europeans are to go awav, and that there is to be no more war; but I say that you should become one, so that a definite arrangement may bo concluded. This is the end of my word—become ye one. Whitipatato (Ngatiraukawa) said: I wish to reply to one word that Maihi has said about the ancestors. He said that he is the rangatira. There was no rangatira on his canoe ; the only raugatira was on the Tainui canoe. He stole the chief from Tainui. Nojpera (Ngatiwhatua) said : I came here to see the work of my grandson (Tawhiao) and Sir George Grey. That is why I came under the protection of Sir George Grey. I have nothing further to say. I came here to listen. Te Meuheu (Ngatituwharetoa) : I speak the words of my father, To Heuheu. He left the sword with Ngapuhi, but he kept the land. He never agreed to destroy the pakeha. I was not the originator of trouble. Te Iwikau was at Ngapuhi. He went there to the Treaty of Waitangi. Hone Heke gave us the sword, but it was left with Ngapuhi. It was not used against tho pakeha by us. There is no trouble because of this name, Te Heuheu. What he agreed to was, that Potatau should be elected to protect tho people and the land. These are the words of Potatau : " Hold fast to love." The eye of the needle is small, but all the thread can be put through. Thy son who spoke yesterday spoke correctly, and ho follows what his father said. That is why I said that he had spoken rightly. I wonder what has been the cause of the war, for it has been through war that we are now talking together. Paralene (Te Whanauapanui) : I was sent here from the house of my tribe. I brought an empty kit, but the food to fill that kit should have been the words of Tawhiao and Sir George Grey, and I will take them back to my people and pour them out before them. 1 came simply to listen, and not to judge. Areleatera (Ngatiraukawa) : I am of a branch of the Ngatiraukawa, who live in the interior, and we support the Government. We have all heard the words that Tawhiao spoke yesterday. I speak on behalf of my tribe. I speak as follows to Tawhiao : Friend Tawhiao, vour words have been heard by all the people. The trouble was not caused by the pakeha in my district. For this reason I will not fulfil your words. That is all, lest you should be wearied. I have sent a letter to you, Tawhiao, and this is a copy : Tour words will not be carried out, and will have no effect. Puhata said : lam from Hauraki, of Ngatipaoa. The words that have been uttered before us are good, and have been pondered over by the people. The people of Hauraki did not come here as judges —they came to listen to the words of Sir George Grey and the King. Their discussions allude to both people. But now the people of Hauraki cannot judge, if Sir George Grey's mouth is closed. Noa tt Rauhihi (of Kapiti) said: What I have to say is this: The words spoken by Tawhiao yesterday seemed to be one-sided. I have nothing to say. If I had been a destroyer of the people of this Island, then I would have had something to say. Others have said that they are under the shadow of the Queen. That word is quite true. The word of Tawhiao, that tho sword should be sheathed, is good. His people will carry it out. Wi Paitalci (of Hauraki) said: lam going to allude to what was said yesterday respecting leasing, selling, and surveys. I agree that tho fighting should be returned to the other side, and that the two people should rest. A son of Mete Kingi, of Whanganui, said : I speak respecting what Tawhiao said yesterday, that a letter was received by Potatau from the Queen. If he wishes to repeat that, let him do so. Sir George Grey is now present, and let them talk face to face. One of the words uttered by Tawhiao was, that they should go to their respective places, and consult together. The conclusion I have come to is this, that he and Sir George Grey should now discuss matters together. Sir George Grey is the chief of the Europeans, and he conducted matters with Natives in the old days. Let Tawhiao and Sir George Grey now speak in the presence of the tribes. Paora Tuhaere said: lam a man from the bows of the Waikato canoe. I will not refer to what has been said by a number of people, but it was said that Tawhiao was the bow of the Waikato canoe. I was the man at the bow; Mokau was the stern of the canoe. The people of that end were Eewi and Wahanui. The captain was Potatau. I was at one end, and Rewi was at the other end. I threw out the captain. When Captain Hobson arrived at the Bay of Islands, the Ngapuhi were about to send him away. Potatau, Apihai, and Te Tinana brought him ashore at Waitemata, ami they became his people. The stupid people were not quick enough in thinking, and they afterwards foolishly took Potatau out of my hands and brought him to Waikato, where they set him up as a king. Potatau said to Apihai and Wetere, " I will not agree, to this thing, a king ; this is an arrangement of the tribes themselves. If you two agree to it, then I will agrea to it,for lam tho head, you are my chest." "When all the people said he was to be made king, then he agreed. My word is, be not angry. lam from amongst you. lam one of yourselves. My body is with you. I will not agree to having a king. lam going to rest on what Potatau said—Be loving, hold to love, and cherish the pakeha. What is there nbout one person like mo? lam speaking for the good of the tribes. We hold to these words. Te Awaitaia said: lam one of the people from outside this canoe —Waikato. Salutations to the people and to Sir George Grey! Tawhiao is my younger brother. Potatau and Te Awaitaia were my fathers. These men gave Waikato over to trouble. Potatau said this: Cleave to the law ; cleave to the faith and to love. That is why I have hesitated so long respecting what you have said. I will

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never agree to what Tawhiao has said —never, never! I understood that this assemblage was to collect them together, and that such words should not be uttered. Do not separate the bundle of sticks, for if you do so, they will be easily broken. Ido not like to speak on this matter. Nini Knhuiai (Ngatipa) said: I am from Waikato —from the waters that flow from these two rivers. In the days of old llangi and Papa were separated from one another. I stood in the middle. In the time of William Thompson I stood outside. Sir George Grey was my friend; I stood with him outside. What I say is my own, and I stand outside of my own accord. Sir George Grey was my friend in the days gone by, and is so now. I will not go to you. Iu the days of William Thompson and Potatau I separated myself. lam still of that opinion. Kerei Manganui said: lam of the Ngapuhi. Salutations to you, my son ! These are my words of love to you, and your parents. (Song.) There is a river flowing between us. Respecting your word, that you have taken iu all the Island, I wish to tell you that I am on one side of the river and you on the other. If I had taken part in the war, I would perhaps have been able to approve of what you said ; but Tamiti Waka and myself joined the pakeha. lam a Government man. From that day I have been a Government man. For this reason, I say, I cannot show you any love, for there is a river between us. Let it be sufficient that you see me, and I see you. I came here not to do this, or that, but to listen to what you both have to say —yourself and Sir George Grey. A half-caste of Wairoa, Hawke's Bay, said : What I have to say is concerning the word of Tawhiao, that the whole of the Island was under the shadow of Potatau. That word is correct. Te Moananui and another chief came and put themselves under the shadow of the King. These chiefs brought me under the shadow of the King. I have not heard from that day to this that any of the tribes disapproved of this—that the King should be deposed, or that he should be left to stand. I have heard that one Government has been deposed— : the Government of Sir Donald McLean. Sir Donald McLean was the Minister of those days. I have only to listen to the words of Sir George Grey and Tawhiao. Tuwhenua (Ngatihaua) : I stand up because I heard that this meeting was called by Sir George Grey and Tawhiao. The whole of the Ngutihaua were of this opinion. If I had heard that this meeting was Tawhiao's alone I would not have come here. The Ngatihauas would not have come here if we had heard that it was Tawhiao's meeting alone, and that Sir George Grey was not to be allowed to speak. Major Te Wheoro said: I come from the middle of the Waikato. All the people here assembled know that lam a son of the pakeha. What was said by Tawhiao yesterday has been said before, but I will open up his words that you may be clear about them. Originally, the chief of this land was Potatau. He resided in Auckland. His friend was Sir George Grey. He lived there many years, and he and Sir George Grey established some doctrine of their own there; and I have heard him say, " Cleave to the law, to faith, and to love." I never heard of these other words spoken by Tawhiao yesterday. Subsequently, these words of Potatau were renewed by other people. The whole of the people of the Waikato stood up, and held by these words. But I dissevered myself from them, and fell into the water. When I fell into the water, I was held up by Sir George Grey's hand. AVhat Tawhiao said yesterday was originated at Ngaruawahia. The Waikato people were divided. You brought away your son here. I thought we should make some regulations, and they were made. Sometimes they were up, and sometimes down. Now, what I have to say to you is this: In the days of Potatau, you gave him your land, but it should be your own. The other tribes have spoken their words, and they are mine also. As to the words uttered by Tawhiao, let them be buried out of sight. You people of Taupo and Tauranga, take his words and bury them. 1 say the same to you, the people of Whanganui. I will not allow Tawhiao to follow his present course. No, not until I die. I will never agree to what he says. I alone am the proper one to do this. Here are your treasures [pointing to the Hauhau people!. Handle them carofully [meaning that the Queenites should deal carefully with them]. I have only one thing more to say. There were three meetings —at Waitoino, Kapiha, and Hikurangi. The one at Hikurangi was mine. Take hold of the word uttered at Hikurangi. I will not listen to the words uttered by Tawhiao. I will not agree to them. Go back to the words spoken at Hikurangi, and find fault with Sir George Grey if he has done wrong. Judge him. All I have to say is, finish what took place at Hikurangi. Come and catch hold of these words. Te Ngakau said :It is now becoming dark. The words that you are forcing on us cannot now be considered. I have something to say to you, but I shall not be able to do so, because it is getting dark. Major Te Wheoro agreed that there should be an adjournment until after breakfast next day ; and the meeting then dispersed. Te Kopua, Friday, 2 p.m. Shortly after 9 o'clock the bugle sounded, and the Natives began to assemble at a place much nearer the quarter of Ministers than at the former meetingß. After they had been seated some time, the royal guard marched up, and formed in line outside the mass of the people, who were seated on the ground. The guard were armed, and I noticed one with his musket at full-cock, and capped. Most of them appeared to be mere boys. After prayers, Whitipatato said he would say a few words while he had the opportunity. His idea was that, after the talk was finished, the Hauhau side should remain seated, aud let the others go first. Those who wished to go let them go. Tawhiao himself was not present, but was represented by Wahanui and Te Ngakau. Eewi was also present. Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan arrived on the ground at 9.45, escorted by a number of the Northern Natives. The meeting was the largest that has yet been assembled. An oblong space had been staked out, and a position reserved for the Ministerial party. The weather was fine and breezy. After a pause, Wahanui rose. The burden of his speech was that they should begin by inquiring who had caused the severance between the Maoris aud the Queen. There had been wars in the early days at various places, but he had taken no part in them. He denied that he had severed himself. He had simply put in a post to which to fasten his canoe (meaning that he had taken part in establishing the King move-

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merit). He concluded by sneeringly advising the Queenites to stick to the Government, bo as to continue to obtain supplies of money, food, and goods. Te Ngalcau was the next principal speaker. He said he had simply one question to ask, namely — Who separated us ? Major Kemp, Reivi, and others spoke. Eewi referred to the meeting he had with Sir George Grey, and wanted to know who was to blame for matters now assuming a different aspect. Several of the Northern Natives again repudiated any dominion assumed over them by the Maori King. Hone Mold Tau-Jtai referred to the Europeans, who had formerly been instrumental in establishing what had resulted. He said, addressing the Hauhaus, that there were still Europeans among them who were sharpening swords to cut their throats. The wish of these men was to upset the Government of Sir George Grey. He referred to the former system of scattering money to induce the Natives to part with their land, and said the Government had stopped that system. Several Natives referred to the circumstances attending the establishment of the Maori King. Te Ngakau again spoke, and was answered by Paora Tuhaere, who spoke very vigorously. He referred to what he had done in trying to prevent the Waikatos from joining in the Taranaki war. Wm. Thompson persisted, and after the people had been defeated and the laud lost, he left them to their fate. He deceived Waikato, and Te Ngakau would do the same. It was the Kingites who were now the beggars, and got supplies from the Government. The Queenites did not. If they did not come to some arrangement, he would take care that supplies be stopped. Te Ngakau said he desired that the people should hold on to the land. JReici said that at Hikurangi he was nearly becoming completely an adherent of the Government, They planted a tree at Wailara, and he wanted to know why it had not thriven and borne fruit. According to the Natives, the effect of what had been said at Hikurangi had been destroyed. On the road [meaning the construction of the ftaglan road] what had been said at Waitara had been destroyed by what had taken place at "Waingongoro [referring to the "Waimato Plains District]. Even Sir George Grey asked the Kingites to let them know why things were now different than at Hikurangi, so that they might be able to answer them. After some further talk, Sir George G-rey suggested that the meeting should adjourn for food, and assemble again in an hour's time. This was agreed to.

[Prom the New Zealand Herald, Slay 12.] Kopua, Friday, 9th May. The meeting was resumed at 10 o'clock this morning. There was a very large attendance —larger, perhaps, than on the first day. Topia Turoa referred to what had been said by Te Wheoro, when lie had called the attention of Turoa and Te Heuheu to the Kingites as treasures, and, secondly, that they should take hold of the word that was uttered at Hikurangi. Sir George Grey said, at Hikurangi, to Tawhiao, " Ton are to conduct the matters of your own district." That is sufficient respecting the treasures. [The speaker here threw down several pieces of wood, saying:] This is the Jving, the chieftainship, knowledge, prophecy. This is the bag in which all treasures were hidden in the old days. There were many treasures hidden in this bag. The chieftainship, knowledge, tales, leases, surveys, telegraphs, railways —all were buried in. those days. All these things—leases, sales, railways, telegraphs, and surveys —were all laid down in that bundle, but now I have taken them up again and scattered them to everybody. But now these are all taken away again, and left in the grasp of one man. Every man can control his own district. You did not accept these proposals. You are the cause of them being thrown out. Walianui said : Let the preaching be clear by the Hauhaus alone. I heard a voice saying to me, " "Write it down." I heard a voice in the heavens on a certain day. This, the day in which we are now sitting. We sleep, and we rise in tho daytime ; and we sleep, and rise again the nest day. We have slept during last night, and the night before, and we rise again to-day. Therefore, I say I heard a voice from heaven, saying, " Write it down." There is joy with those who are saved, for the Lord protects them ; also they have destroyed your prophets, and lam the only one left. They seek my life also to destroy it. These are only two words. Thirdly, now my word will spread. This is Hoturoa. This canoe was Taiuui. He is looking for the post to which he will tie this canoe. It will be tied. They found the post and they tied it. This was Ahurei. It will be left for the people to look at. The war was not caused by me. When the Treaty of Waitangi was signed tho war was commenced at Waitangi. Directly the Treaty was made the war was commenced. But where was I on that day? The war afterwards commenced at Whanganui. Where was I [meaning the Waikato people] in those days? Look carefully into this, and be ye clear also. Where is this place, Waitangi ? Point it out. Is it in my country ? The war commenced with Sir George Grey, with the Ngapubl. He broke that Treaty, and where was lat that time. Do not murmur at me. I looked and I found that there was nothing for you to tie your system of government to. 1 thought this [meaning Tawliiao] is where you should tie them. That is my idea. Then I was drawn on to your works North and South. That is why I repeat these words. Oh, Lord, they have destroyed your prophets ! They have swept away your tabernacles, and I am the only survivor, and the murderers seek for my soul to destroy it this day ! lam not finding fault with you ; but, I ask, is the Treaty of Waitangi mine ? All that I have done is to seek for a post to tie the canoe to. This is my post. All I did was to erect a post (Maori King), and when it was erected the people of the Island began to quarrel. Some have said that we should come under the shadow of the Queen, and that we should become one. I say that is right, but who severed that unity ? When we were one, who severed us ? It is said that we should become one under the shadow of the Queen. That is right, for she is my mother ;my father is Sir George Grey. But who severed this unity T, and caused a war between us? Who severed the Queen from us? The Treaty of Waitangi was severed. Let those people who support Sir George Grey be strong, that they may receive his pay. If you do not coax him, you will get no money. Be strong and support Sir George Grey, and you will get your money.

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Tulioro made a few remarks of no significance whatever. Tawhiti asked a question with reference to the order of procedure. Te Ngakau : You all spoke under one head yesterday. There is only one question—"Who severed us? Major Kemp said: There is such a long pause that I stand up. I stand up because I did not speak fully yesterday. I speak on behalf of one of tny tribe, the Ngatikahungungu, who came from the head of the fish. During t':ie time when the Waitara matter was being agitated I wrote a letter disapproving of certain actions there ;it was a request that the Waiters should be investigated. I then followed up to the meeting at Peria. Karnitiana was there. I asked you to allow the Waitara to be investigated. I was replied to, " I won't have a man of no rank to speak to me." That ended matters. I speak on behalf of the people who showed me kindness in those days. Ngatikahungungu came to Pukawa, on the Taupo Lake. From that day Ngatikahungungu were severed, and they have been severed ever since. I now speak on behalf of Whanganui. I came to Auckland when all the Ngapuhi chiefs were assembled there. 1 then spoke. The fighting then stopped, and it has ceased ever since. I was a young man in those days. Sir George Grey knew me as a young man. I never moved in any other direction until this day. Wahanui, what you have said is correct, that lam a naughty boy ; but I have been a post at all times at the mouth of the AVanganui. It is right that your thoughts should be delayed, for you, Waikato, are a big tribe, and have a number of great chiefs. During this day that I speak lam with Sir George Grey. I will not refer to what was said before, and I will not say who was the cause of trouble, or who made us fight. If you had gone to Waitara you could have found fault with Sir George Grey there. We should give up the present childish talk. "We are hereto hear what you, oh, "Waikato ! and Sir George Grey, have to say. Beioi said : Look this way all of you. (Song.) I hastened to this work to plant a tree, that it might grow luxuriantly; that was followed up at Hikurangi. The tree of peace was planted at Hikurangi. I then went to Waitara. 1 followed the work up there ; and I still adhere to what was said at Waitara. Who made it of any effect ?—not me, but Sir George Grey. At Waitara our hands were loosened from one another's heads. Why not speak out your words ? The words at Hikurangi have been destroyed on the road. The words at Waitara were severed at Waingongoro, —but who is the cause ? Am I the cause that we have come to this day and to these words. I speak now to Sir George Grey : Speak, how were the words at Hikurangi brought to an end ? Tell us why the words at Hikurangi have been destroyed and havo not been allowed to mature ? Tell us the reason why we have come to talk like this to-day. I flew to the word that the tree of peace should be planted, and how is it that it has been split ? Tumutumu : What you, Major Kemp, have said is correct. No one can say how Sir George Grey is wrong. There is no man who can investigate Sir George Grey's wrongness. What I have to say is, let all of you follow Sir George Grey. Follow him, and get some nourishing food and money. There is no other treasure for you beyond that. If you come here you will receive nothing from us. You cannot overthrow the Government. I say, cleave to your father (Sir George Grey.) Cleave to him ; that is your course. Timoti (Earawa) : I agree with what has been said, that Ngapuhi was the cause of the first war with the Europeans. I also agree that the Treaty of Waitangi was mine, and that I was the cause of the war. That fighting of mine took place about thirty-five years ago. I think there is no reason why any fighting should be brought up and discussed here. I am positive that all the Europeans approved of how we carried out the war. When one of my tribes fought, they made peace afterwards. It was not left as a matter of ill-feeling afterwards between the Europeans and the Maoris. From that day until now that peace has not been disturbed. My reply to what Tawhiao has said, that his kingship reached to the North Cape, is that I will not agree to it. I will not have the power of the king reach to the North Cape. The Government and myself have been good friends ever since the war. I will not allow my lands in the North to be governed by a person here. No ; I will control my own district. I will make laws for them myself in conjunction with the Government. Let the King of Waikato control the Waikatos, for they elected him as their king. I stand on the side of the Government. Kerei Manganui spoke of the war in the North as a domestic quarrel. They were now with Sir George Grey. Te Ngakau : It was not through us that Waitara was not investigated. It was through Sir George Grey and Governor Browne. That is my reply to you, Major Kemp. Waikato was not the cause of destroying the Treaty of Waitangi. It was you who destroyed it, and you made peace. This is your own work. There have been five fightings before it came to me. For this reason I ask what are my faults ? Hone Mold Taiohai (Ngapuhi) : I follow up what Wahanui has said, commencing from the Treaty of Waitangi. The Treaty was commenced at Waitangi, and was taken right round the Island. The war was commenced by Ngapuhi, but peace was made, and it did not spread. Peace was also made after the war with Eauparaha. After that, war commenced at Waikato, right in the middle of the land. Let your war be terminated in the same way as the war with the Ngapuhi. The wars in the North and South have all been brought to a close by peace. This is the only thing that remains for you. Tamahana (William Thompson) was asked, and came under the Europeans, who directed him. You put yourselves under them, and afterwards you set up a King. Then your advisers took the sword to decapitate you ; but now the day has come when we should look face to face. There are Europeans amongst you now who are still sharpening the razor to cut your throats. Those are the Europeans who wish to overthrow Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan. In the days of Sir Donald McLean he took a bag of gold and scattered it broadcast. The name of it was a deposit on land. The fowls collected to eat that grain, and the Maori people hastened to gather up the money; but now these deposits are at an end. Who has stopped this scattering of money ? I praise Sir George Grey ; I lift up this Government now. 2—G. 2.

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Pdkulcoliatu spoke of the origin of the King movement, and said : "Wahanui was the cause of the King movement in tins place. Whitipatato said: I was the cause of preventing the investigation of Waitara. I asked who should investigate—"William King, or who else ? Governor Browne wished others to investigate it, but I said that was not according to the law. Major Kemp : I was the person hurt when I wished Waitara to be investigated. On this subject all the people have suffered. You did not suffer from what took place <at Ngapuhi or "Whanganui, but when the Waitara matter took place, then we all suffered. It was not through the King; movement, it was some of Satan's work. But that has nothing to do with Ihe business of this day. What we ought to take up, as Eewi said, is the subject of the Hikurangi meeting. We are here to-day with Sir George Grey and Tawhiao. Bewi has spoken ; Sir George Grey has yet to speak. Te Ngakau : In reference to the words said yesterday, the words spoken to-day are not the same. It was said that I was a wicked man. who caused trouble in this land. I have already asked you to tell me what I have done that is wrong. Paora Tuhaere: What I have to say in reply is this : That you were the cause of the evil. I told you this at Ngaruawahia. I told William Thompson and Wetini. These were my opponents when the flag was erected at Ngaruawahia. I said, do not approve of that evil course ;do not fly to that cause of strifeI—have1 —have nothing to do with that strife at Taranaki. Wetini and Thompson replied that they had spoken, and would enter into the war at Taranaki. Those men have now disappeared, and you are in their place. That was what I referred to yesterday, —that somebody came and brought Potatau away from the midst of the Europeans. When the Waikatos were defeated, they lost their lands also. Thompson withdrew from them, and he deceived Waikato. Now you, Te Ngakau, are following in his footsteps. I tell you that you are deceiving Waikato. By-and-by, when you have deceived them, and got them into trouble, you will withdraw from them. I tell you, cease your work. The chiefs of Waikato will not disappear, and they can conduct matters. lam alive. There are other men alive who are at the foot of Tawhiao. I will not agree that you should conduct all matters. Arise, and let us return to Tamaki. Let your place of abode be one with Sir George Grey, so that the words you speak may come true —that the Island and the people are yours. Thus you will be a father for the people in the Island. Sir George Grey, who will conduct the European affairs, has the bulk of the land and the majority of the people of New Zealand on his side. We have only got a small portion of the land and of the people. It would be a good thing that you should become one with us. Come away and become a father to the people of the Island, and let your works be carried out conjointlv. Let your laws be the same for both people. Take up your burden and come away. My houses are not yet unfit for occupation. We have been deceived by the tribes, and it will not do for us to be deceived any further. It has been said that the people w Tho cleave to the Queen are running after money. Tes ; I will agree to that. It is the supporters of the King who beg from the Government. The Queenites do not ask the Government for their luxuries. The Kingites are always asking for Government aid. But if you act as you are doing, I will put a stop to that begging. Paora Karelai (Ngatiraukawa) said that they could not come to a decision. He was in the position that his tribe were divided on the question,—one part was on the Kingite side, and the other on Sir George Grey's side. Te Ngakau said : All I want is that the people should keep their own land. Now, Paul, what is my fault ? What William Thompson said was that the King should stand, and that the Queen should stand, and that their love should be bound by faith. All I have to say is : Hold on to what you have got. But what have I done that is wrong ? Major Te Wheoro: We have been beguiled by the faults of the people of the South—by the people that were mentioned by Pakukowhatu. This has been the cause of trouble. You will say that Sir George Grey is the cause of trouble, but I tell you that the trouble was caused by Te Heuheu, Turoa, and Eewi. When Potatau was brought into Waikato, the words uttered by him and Sir George Grey disappeared, and what was the result ? Death ! Let them bury this thing (Kingism) out of sight. I will never agree to have this thing. There are two causes of trouble. The selling of the land was a cause of trouble. I was brought to grief through deceit. I will not agree that I should suffer twice. Bewi said: At Whakairoiro I became reconciled to listen to what you had to say. Then, at Hikurangi, I went so far as to very- nearly sign my name. Who has been the cause that we are not near that point to-day ? At Whakairoiro I came close to your parent to lift him up ; at Hikurangi I was on the point of signing, but who has been the cause of my speaking in this way now ? Sir Georqe Grey : Eewi has spoken very sensibly. We have had two meetings—one at Whakairoiro, one at Hikurangi. Eewi and myself met at Waitara. We agreed there that a tree should be planted, which he hoped would bear good fruits for the whole Island. The question is, why have you gone away from that ? Let the reasons be stated. Let them be thrown out in the presence of this meeting, then we shall know what answer to make to you. Te Ngakau : I consider that Wahanui's question is still unanswered. I knew the reason why Tawhiao said that you should rest at Alexandra. Wahanui's question should be replied to. I will by-and-by speak my own thoughts. Major Te Wheoro; Wahanui's question has been replied to. I have told you already that it was through the tribes following a certain course that trouble arose. Paora Tuhaere : We have replied that the trouble arose through you joining the war at Taranaki. Henalce Takarangi (Mete Kingi's son) : My reply to Te Ngakau's question is this : That a very small portion of the Island is left for Tawhiao to control. This is also my reply to Wahanui. The thoughts of the friendly Natives have been uttered. Most of the land is dwindling away. The Government have got most of the land, and the fault rests with you. You have only a small portion of the Island remaining to you. The trouble that arose at Whanganui did not extend to you, but remained with us. Wahanui named several places at which the question of Kingism had been discussed, and repeated his question: Who separated the Maori from the Queen ? He said, if we do not finish to-day ox to-morrow, do not return home.

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Paora Tuhaere said that their side would not speak further, and called upon the other side to explain what they really meant. Te Wheoro said : Go to Tawhiao, and tell him that the subjects we wish to talk of are those raised at Hikurangi, and ask him if he wishes to continue the thread taken up there, so that our business will be done. lifiwi: I have been planting a field with proper food, but it turned out weeds. The word was said, " Hold fast, though the Island be thrown into great trouble." The only thing that separates Sir George Grey and myself is what is in my soul. Sir Qeorge Grey : I have heard what To Wahanui has said, and I have heard what Rewi has said. I was very much pleased at some of Te Wahanui's expressions, and I am very much pleased with what Eewi has said. You all know that a very great responsibility rests upon me—that I must strive to guide things to a right conclusion. 1 think, therefore, we had better take Te Wahauui's advice and break up now. Think carefully over what has been said, and then come back in about an hour and see if we cannot work up to some good settlement of the question. The meeting then adjourned for an hour, and was resumed at a quarter past two o'clock. Te Ngakau repeated his question, that he should be told what wrong he had done. Kerei (Mangonui) said that all the people from the North had done speaking.

[From the New Zealand Herald, May 13.] Te Kopua, Friday. TnE following is a continuation of the extended report of Friday's proceedings : — Mailii te Rangikakehe : The tribes hare replied to what Tawhiao has said. The reply of my tribe, the Arawas, was different from that of the others. The people had set up a post, but all the horses except one have now broken away from it. I know who it was that made the King, and also that most of the people have retired from him. The only reason why the Arawas spoke differently yesterday was that we looked and saw that you alone were tied to that post. They saw that all the people who worked that canoe have now gone outside. You should only have one permanent authority over you, bo that some remnant of the Island and the people may remain. There were ten chiefs in this island who agreed to set up the King. "We alone did not utter any words that the King should be set up. But I am not considered a man —my sole chief is Te Arawa. I told the meeting at Ngaruawahia, though all the chiefs of the Island wished to set up our grandson as King, that they should smother the name of King. The name of King is the cause of death. At that time but for very little I would have had my throat cut bv the chiefs. The King is supposed to be for the whole Island, and should therefore be supported by the whole of the tribes, but they have left him to be upset in the ocean, while they have swam ashore. At Maungatautari, it was said : Make peace, in order to save the remnant of the land. I say, Let us all agree to become one. I won't be afraid to utter my words because of you. My son, Tawhiao, you are not a good priest, but I say, Let us become one, and we will stand in the Parliament. There is but a small portion of the Island left, and that is why I say let us become one under the Government of England, so that we may retain a portion of this remnant. I, your friend, am standing under the Government. Some say that I am standing under the Government for the sake of money; but my answer to that is, that before the troubles began I was in the same position. Before the King was made the names of the chiefs who supported the Government reached England. An old man, one of the Kingites, here called out: " You sit down, you are a dos-" Mailii replied: I have not the teeth of a dog, or else I would bite you, you bad fellow. Te Ngalcau said : I have not heard Sir George Grey find fault with me. Am Ito allow my spirit to depart twice? You ask that we should enter into your house. I agree with you. But why should I give up the ghost twice ? Why should I suffer twice ? Hopa te Manqianini (Xgatimaniapoto) : What Mailii has said is correct. By Tawhiao's action the sword was sheathed. It was a sign that war was over. We wish to know his course. Sir George Grey has spoken, and Eewi has followed him. I follow after Itewi, who lias gone over to Sir George Grey's side. I will follow him. lam not going to bo deceived by these chiefs. [Hopa rose from amongst the Kingites and walked away.] A Native from Wairoa, Hawke's Bay, said : I follow what Tawhiao said on the first day, that there should be no more war, no more leasing, selling, or roads. I understood Tawhiao to mean that Sir George Grey should put a stop to these things. I desire that Sir George Grey alone should reply to the speeches, and that no more questions should be asked. I did not come here to hear petty disputes. It is for Tawhiao and Sir George Grey to speak. When I have heard Sir George Grey's speech I will very likely approve of what he says. Te Ngakau : This word has been said, that I should enter your house. Wahanui and I have put our questions, but Sir George Grey has not found fault with me yet. The discussion about matters in this Island are good, and it is right that we should discuss these matters. I have some faults to find with Sir George Grey, and he has a right to find fault with me. I should like all things to be discussed, so that when I enter into your house I will know clearly how I shall die. I ask again, Am I to suffer death twice ? Utuhu Mauliuia : I have not seen any fault in you, the Kingites, since the King was set up. It is right that we should ask those persons who found fault yesterday why they should ask you to enter the house under the shadow of the Queen. They are jealous, and wish you to enter in and suffer with them. That you should enter in without trouble is nonsense. There is jealousy among my tribes. There is a fire consuming me in these days, and that is why I say, Follow the course you are pursuing. Which is the right course? Never mind all things. If you constantly pray to God, you will be saved. He will show you mercy. Lament over yourselves, for I have been bound in chains. The words that Tawhiao has said are true ;it is not a new saying—it is one of old. It has been laid down before. If we lose that name from amongst us, we are all lost, and we have no name left in the Island. We will disappear. There are numbers of men who find fault with this binding together.

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Major Te Wheoro: I would prefer Wahanui and others to tell me, and not you. I object that that sharp-pointed instrument should be brought. It was brought from your quarter, and lam afraid lest it should be said that we were the cause of that instrument having been brought. I have said already that I have suffered from the people of the South. We all kuow that road. By speaking thus, we are adding fuel to fire. Wi Maihi: I say, yes ; let us enter, and suffer a second time. I have made my house, but it still leaks. I say, let your conscience point out your course to you. I say again, come in, and let us suffer twice. I will not say that either you or I will be saved, but we will share the same fate. If you think that I have not replied satisfactorily, stand up and ask again. A discussion here ensued between Te Ngakau, Maihi, and Te Wheoro, the former insisting that he should be informed of the fault he had committed, and why he should be asked to enter into the house, and suffer a second time. Paora Tuhaere explained why the Ngapuhi had ceased from speaking. It was for the other side to reply to what had been said. James Thompson (half-caste) complained that they were wasting time, and not coming to the real point at issue. He summarised the points which had been raised on both sides. He referred to the absurdity of lamenting now over things long past and gone. Sir George Grey • Some of you ask that an answer should be given to Tawhiao. Some of you ask that an answer should be given to Wahanui's question; and some ask that an answer should be given to Eewi's question. The answer to Tawhiao has been given by all the people on this side. Tawhiao said, "I claim the whole Island, from the North to the South," and they have all answered, "We know nothing of you, or of your claims." Now, I answer upon behalf of the Europeans, We know nothing of his claims. Now, I turn to Wahanui. He asks. " Who is to blame for the strife that has prevailed from time to time in this Island ?" And I answer Wahanui, Let him who is without sin amongst you cast the first stone, llewi has aaked, " Why the difference between the conversation to-day, and the conversation that took placo at Hikurangi?" To that I say, There is no difference upon our part. I say the same as I said at Hikurangi. I have heard that some complaints have been made. Let those who have complaints to make stand up, and openly state them here. Aporo said: I will reply to what ltewi has said this day respecting the good tree that is to be planted. I will sav to Eewi, You thief. There are two posts in the world. They shed the Lord's blood —Eewi and Sir George Grey. Both of these men have shed the precious blood of the Lord. They are now coming into the presence of Tawhiao to cause dispute. Tawhiao, in his day, heard the words of the Lord, which were written against all malicious people, adulterers, and so forth, for the fire of hell is burning. Listen, Sir George Grey, I will reply to your words. You did not keep sacred the word of God. You shed precious blood. You and Eewi did this. A man has deicended into the world from the clouds of Heaven bringing good works. He is Tawhiao. Tawhiao descended from the clouds of Heaven, and stood on the land. Tawhiao said that Sir George Grey should come to Hikurangi, and then he stood and pointed out Mangatawhiri. That was through their love towards each other. They drew their boundary —Waikato. This line dividing the land was made by man. The people who have come from the islands [outside of New Zealand] are those who have produced war. Their words at Hikurangi were not brought into force. The Tokehouhou Eoad was commenced [meaning the WaipaEaglan Eoad]. After that Eewi came in and joined Sir George Grey, but he left many here. The thief went away to Waitara. Listen! O people of the world, Tawhiao did nothing. He is the sole person who has the right to make boundaries on the lands. If I have only a small piece for my foot to tread upon, never mind. That is my reply to Sir George Grey. Eewi said: Has the course I have followed been wrong, that you should utter words against me? Was it on account of the badness of the road that the thief fled? Look this way. Was the cause wrong that the man of strife fled? Men flee through the works of men. Words were uttered at Whakairoiro, secondly at Hikurangi. Here I am, a man of war, a shedder of blood. I fled also to the man that shed blood [meaning Sir George Grey]. Our hands hold one another. I was not led astray after other enjoyments. I was tempted by the instincts of my own heart. 1 was not tempted by any nice thing. It was the instincts of my own heart that tempted me, and my instincts have been leading me until the present time. lam with men in all parts, and God looks over the whole world. My work has been to provide a salvation for men. My body took me into the presence of another sinful man. Listen, my child !My child !1 go back to the word that was left to me. lam still of that opinion until this day. I was not tempted by money or by any other thing. I am still in that way now. I have returned to the words that were uttered originally. The word did not spring from my heart originally. I did not set myself to carry out that work of yours, my younger brother. You fed me with that work. Let me be judged by my utterances, so that if I am condemned it may be out of my own mouth. I am he who allowed the people to die, and gave the people unto death. I said to Ngatiawa and Taranaki to arise and fight. [Eewi here recited part of the song comment'ing " Pulii kura, puhi kaka," which was sent down by him to Taranaki, and which is said to have incited to the massacre at Tataraimaka. The song has always been considered as a signal of war.] We then fought with the Europeans. If I die, let Sir George Grey be the cause of my losing my land. Wheu Te Heuheu spoke in favour of setting up the King, he did not say a word to the effect that we should fight against the Europeans. When the days were drawing near for the setting up of the King my brother drew me into the house and said, " This is my word, though I die, still keep my word in existence." My child [looking at Te Wheoro], you say let the elder brother come to my back. You say, let the people work who did devise these matters, but I say lam the only one surviving. My younger brother Paul says, carry my younger brother. Where is he to be carried ? I say make me a resting-place. Sir George Grey has held up my right hand and sustained me. My hand holds his, but my spirit and his spirit are still separate. I will never give him up. The people say that I hold to him for the sake of gain. I say " No," my treasure is my land. I hold Sir George Grey because he was my opponent. Some people say Sir George Grey has tempted me with money. I tell you I have not been tempted by money. lam persisting about the land. Who killed me? It was you, not the pakeha. I was not killed by the Europeans. lam with Sir George Grey, the fighting man. What is my hand to catch hold of? I

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will hold to Sir G-eorge Grey. I will not drop him. Our hearts are interchanged. When we understand one another I will then ask my child to come and sit on the crown of my head. But I say these other people are filling the place on which we are to set him. lam trying to prepare a place on which to place my child, but you are swallowing it up. It is said that you are spoiling yourselves. But who has forsaken him? It is said that we have forsaken him and he has fled. Where am Ito place him? Am Ito place him on what has been taken away ? Is that to be his platform—that there shall be no leases or sales ? I will allow him to go and seek some way to establish things on a sound foundation. I leave my son (Tawhiao) simply and solely to seek some way of getting salvation for my own people, and, when I had arranged things, I was going to place him on a sound foundation. The King party went away to the European side, and then came back again. lam carrying out my plan. I have not been bribed. lam following out my own course. It is only recently that I have begun to seek a restingplace for my elder brother. For this cause I speak as a reasonable man, and what my heart feels. All I have to say is that I will hold to Grey, because we can arrange matters, and find fi place in which, we may dwell in peace. I hold Sir George Grey, and I will continue to hold him. I will hold fast to him that he may finish the work. I have built a house here, because my days are few. When this work is completed I will turn to the matters of my soul. I will build up my spirit. [Turning to Sir George Grey he said :] This is all I have to say to you. It is the same as I told you at Waitara. The good work was commenced at Whakairoiro, then at Hikurangi, and lastly at Waitara. I will build up my district, commencing from a certain point and going right round. I will continue building up this land, and, though you die, I will still continue to work for the good of the people. Sir George Grey said : Listen ! The evening is coming on. I want to say a few words to you. I knew Potatau for many years. I knew all his children —all his friends. Between Potatau and myself there never was a word of difference, and, had I remained in this Island, I believe there never would have been a dispute between the Waikatos and myself. I look on Tawhiao as my own child. Now I say the conversations that have passed between Eewi and myself have passed openly in the presence of many people. There was only one thing that bound Eewi and myself together, and that was love for all the people in this Island, and for Tawhiao and his people, and we determined to work for good. As two old men, we determined to devote the rest of our lives for the good of the people of New Zealand ; but some wicked men have arisen to spread false reports about Eewi aud myself. They muttered in the corners of houses, and represented to the people that Manga had been influenced in some way by myself and the Government. These are untruths. No word has ever passed between us of that kind. I came here full of regard for Tawhiao. I feel the same regard for him still. I have listened to no evil word against him to poison my mind against him. If any man had come to me and said an evil word against Tawhiao, I would not have listened to it. I would have ordered him out of my house. I came here this time hoping to have settled himself and his people in comfort, and it was with delight I heard him say there shall be no more fighting in this Island. When I heard him say that, I said, there speaks a son worthy of his father Potatau. I must go to-night, because it is late, but my last word to you is that I am here still to do everything that is right, and fair, and just to Tawhiao, and for all his people ; but those persons who tell him to claim all the Island—to talk in the way he did the other day, are not his friends, as I and Eewi are. They are enemies of his and of his people, and enemies of their fellow-countrymen the Europeans, if they are Europeans who do it; and they are enemies of their country if they are Natives who do these things. Let all good men unite in an attempt to secure a lasting peace and happiness for both Natives and Europeans in New Zealand ; and when a man rises, like Eewi, to struggle to do good for his fellow-countrymen, let any man be ashamed to utter such shameful words against him as I have heard spoken to you hero this day. The truth is, that Tawhiao is surrounded bv some people who avail themselves of the present state of things to sell their land, to let their land, and get money for their land, and yet they prevent all their fellow-countrymen from doing the Bame. Now, good-night to you all. The meeting then dispersed to assemble again to-morrow. Eeferring to the invitation given to Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan, I may give the letter sent by Eewi, upon which alone they came to Te Kopua. It was as follows : —" Te Kopua, April 2Sth. To Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan ; Salutations to you both ! I shall not conceal my word, but make you both acquainted with it. It is that you and all your people come to Kopua to-morrow. —From Eewi Manga Maniapoto." When we reached Te Kopua, Tawhiao's party desired at once to fraternise with the Ngapuhi chiefs who accompanied us, and who have all great names. But the Ngapuhi stood firm and refused all advances unless the Europeans were included. Te Ngakau himself repeated the invitation to some of the younger chiefs who were about the Ministerial quarters. None of the invitations have been accepted, and I overheard a conversation in the Kingite quarters, with reference to the purport of the Ngapuhi reply, which had been read at the evening prayers. Prom what was said I gathered that they couched their letter somewhat as follows : —" We decline to go. We are held back by our Pakeha. When we go accompanied by him, then we will go." That intimated that they would not accept any invitation without Ministers were included. Te Ngakau has had several interviews with Sir George Grey and the Hon. Mr. Sheehan. The Ngapuhis and othern Northern natives have behaved very well indeed. They have emphatically repudiated the claims of Tawhiao throughout, and have done all they could to assist Ministers otherwise. Te Kopua, Monday morning. Proceedings were resumed this morning, which was bright and clear. Tawhiao was present with his guard. He sat in a group of his friends, with his back to the Europeans. He did not speak, up to the adjournment at 1 o'clock. Te Wahanui stated the points that had been raised, which, he said, had not been answered on the other side. Paul replied, and then a discussion ensued between Paul and Wahanui. Petera Tupahue (Arawa) said : I will reply for my tribe. Your first error was that you did not act in the King movement with the approval of all the tribes. Potatau was lying sick when trouble commenced. You did not look to all sides of the question before you set up the King. Potatau said, Love the Europeans. He did not hold to evil; but, after he disappeared, wrong was done. When Potatau

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died other troubles sprung up, at the commencement of Tawhiao's day. Then the different tribes began to act for themselves. Then I stood aloof. Tawhiao says peace shall be made ; but he has not done so in an explicit manner. I say you have done wrong. You did right sometimes. We are allies, doing wrong on our side. "Wo eat lamb, and eat men; but if you had collected all the people, the results might have been different. Sir George Grey is here. Do not reject him, the friend of your fathers. I spoke at Te Kuiti to draw us together. I say, cherish the representative of your fathers, then will no evil arise from it. But if you reject him, you will receive no good. Let him act as counsellor for Tawhiao. The past events are gone. Let us try now to do what is good. I say, let Sir George Grey act as adviser of Tawhiao. To Ngakau :_ Three things commenced at Eotorua. You say we have done that which is right twice, and wrons; twice. By what course am Ito reach you? Prtcra te Puhuatua : There is a course open for you. lam in earnest when I say that I see no evil will arise if you come over to Sir George Grey. I spoke at Te Kuiti to Tawhiao, but I was never asked to visit him after. Ido not reject, but cherish the pakeha. Te Ngakau said: If my questious are answered, then I will come over and join Sir George Grey. Ido not know why I should come over and join without some reasons. Ido not know any reasons, but you seem to know. Petera : You ask for the road by which we may become one. I say, take him over and cherish him, and then you will see that result. You wish the confiscated lands to be returned. In my opinion this is your course. Begin your advances in the way of closiug with Sir George Grey by degrees. You may say the lauds confiscated were stolen, but I say let Tawhiao and AVahanui go and ponder these things in your house. Wahanui: The sword is sheathed. My hand is stretched forth to the whole world. It is said that I did wrong at the commencement. [Wahanui then spoke of the various houses erected at the time of the King agitation.] At that time I held firm to Sir George Grey, the Governor; and Grey and Potatau made a covenant, but who broke it ? No reply is given through fear. If Sir George Grey was not present, you would all speak. You are afraid no money will be given you. The question has been put, who severed us ? Our power did not go beyond Taranaki. There, in the days of Hauhauism, I had two posts in the North. If a yoke is placed on a bullock and a horse, the one will push with his horns and the other will kick. So it would be with Maoris and Europeans. Petera : If you say that we are to stay, and Sir George Grey to go away, I will be willing. I will assist you to come to a satisfactory conclusion. Let some of us consult to arrange matters. You have said that Tawhiao is the head of all people. Do not throw me away, but let me assist you. Te Ngakau : I understand you. Do you propose to carry out your sentiments? What we did we have kept, and we are resting on it. What you did I remember, for you made a proverb of it. You said about Kingism that the fish of Eotorua were small, but take it to Waikato, where the fish are of a larger size [meaning the chiefs of Waikato were greatest]. If we go on, we may come to an agreement. A discussion took place between Kerei Mangonui and Te Ngakau about former negotiations between Ngapuhi and Waikato. Parapone NgawaJce (Kiapara) : We have been engaged for several days, and Te Ngakau and AVahanui have been repeating the same questions. I was not asked to come here to listen to this kind of discussion. I heard Tawhiao say he would have nothing to do with Sir George Grey. I am still listening for the continuation of the discussion. It will not do for us to continue talking like this. If you continue like this I will leave. Te Ngakau : What you say is right. I did not think this discussion was to take this* turn, and that it was to bo an investigation. I ask, what fault have I done, and by what course can I come to you ? Tokaranga (Ngapuhi) said that the Kingites had tfut a small portion of the land and of the people. Te Ngakau : I ask, who was it that made us have the small portions of the land and of the people ? An adjournment then took place. Te Kopua, Monday evening. After a whole day spent in useless talking;,—■ Sir George Greif said: My friends, chiefs of the various tribes who are here, I will say a few words to you. I have heard since I have been here murmuring of three complaints. Now, first, I will say this to you, that, together with Mr. Sheehan, I made offers to give certain things to Tawhiao and his people. That I did, not as having any right of my own to do it, but simply as the servant of the people of New Zealand —as the servant of all of you who hear me, among others. Now you may all have seen my payment for this service. Three times I have had to come to you at very considerable personal trouble and annoyance. I have had many troubles and many discomforts to go through. I have hurt my health bv so doing, and my only object in undergoing these fatigues was to serve you. I wished to do you good. When I made those offers I had no power to go back from them or to break them, because my masters, the people of New Zealand, would not let me do so. The three things I have found muttering about are, —first, the road that has been made to Raglan. To that I answer that there is no ground of complaint whatever. The conversation that I had with you at Hikurangi was to this effect: That, if it was agreeable to you and Tawhaio, there should be returned to you that remnant of the confiscated land on the west bank of the Waipa which had not been sold to Europeans. Now the road to llaglan ran through our own lands, the lands that belong to all the people of New Zealand, lands which had been fairly purchased, which had never been taken as confiscated land, and which were lands through which all people had a right to have a road made. It was right that the Europeans of Raglan, and the Europeans of Hamilton and Cambridge and other parts of the colony should have the means of communicating together, and carrying their produce along a road. It was a road for the Natives as much as for the Europeans. As the servant of New Zealand I could not have refused to make that road when the Parliament determined

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it should be done. Now, this road was made in great part by yourselves. I was glad that you got the money for making it. I believed that I did you a great benefit in securing that work and that money for you. There was no breach of agreement whatever regarding that work. Another subject regarding which I have heard complaints is respecting certain sections at Harapipi, which had been bought back by the Government from Europeans. Those sections were excluded by me from the lands which Tawhiao was to have. The words were carefully used, that the lands were to be returned to him by the Government which had not been sold to Europeans. Those lands had been sold to Europeans. They were excluded from the arrangement. But the Government did not take them for the people of New Zealand generally. As it was believed they had been offered to you by a previous Government, Parliament set them apart as an endowment for a school, at which your children were to be educated. So that you were to have the benefit of those lands. Further, as I understood the lands had been offered to you by a previous Government, I inquired into the circumstances before I went to Hikurangi. I understood that you had refused to take those lands. I understood that the reason was, that the lands being mixed up with the farms of Europeans, disputes on account of European stock hurting your cultivations were likely to take place between you and the Europeans; therefore I did this: I offered you what had never been offered before —town acres in every one of the towns established in the Waikato district, so that you might have the means of getting an immediate revenue from your lands. Now, listen to this. I say that there could have been no understanding on my part, or on Mr. Sheehan's part, regarding those sections; but I say this, that if you can show the slightest cause to make the people of New Zealand believe that you might have misunderstood the subject, you may rely upon it that the Parliament, as representing the people of New Zealand, would see that ample compensation was given to you on that account. The people of New Zealand, Europeau and Native, are a generous people, and they would allow no persons situated as you are to suffer wrong from a mistake into which you had fallen. I say that in that case those offers made to you shall be further considered. The third subject upon which I have heard grumbling —because there has been no open statement made —is what I will mention to you. I have heard there have been grumblings because I have, or because the Government on behalf of the people of New Zealand have, made arrangements that if you desired that a railway should be made hence to Mokau the money should be forthcoming. Now, that provision was made without the least intention of attempting to make a railway, until the chiefs had agreed to such a tiling being done and expressed their wish for it. It was done out of pure love for you, and the belief that you would ultimately wish it. I did nothing more than Nature has done for you. Look here! Nature has made here for you level plains of rich country, through which a railroad can run with the greatest ease. Was God wrong in doing that ? God has put into your earth up there abundance of iron, by which all the rails for the railroad can be made at any time, and that iron is a very valuable property. It will make many men and many families rich. "Was God wrong in making that provision for you ? If you wish to have a railway, then, God filled that country up with abundance of coal, of the best coal in New Zealand, by which the fires might be made to drag the train along. Those coals are a very valuable property, and will make many people rich and many families comfortable. Providence has made those provisions for a railway whenever you please to have it. "Was Providence wrong in doing that ? "Which is wrong : Providence, who has made all these provisions for your wealth and comfort, or the few men who try to shut out their fellowmen from using those provisions ? Which is wrong : Providence, who has done all that good for you, or the men who shut out doctors and medicine from this country, as you did, and let innocent little children die for want of proper care ? So that innocent children died; young boys and young girls died without any help at all, because men, who were selling land themselves in other places, and making money, and concealing it,too,from other persons, shut all out from this country for fear the lands would be sold. Now, I stand here before you, and I say I was your friend in adding on to the other provisions which Providence has made,that, whenever you did desire this railway to be made, to bring wealth, comfort, and peace to you, the means should be at hand to do it. I say, let every comfort come to your children; let every comfort come to yourselves. I will never try to force them on you, but by words I will always endeavour to persuade you to get what is right done, and no longer to act so cruelly to your fellow-men. Now, the offers which were made to you at Hikurangi were promises of gifts to be given without your undertaking to do anything in return for them. I shall wait until to-morrow at 10 o'clock in the morning. If then you send to me, to tell mo you accept these offers, or that you are prepared to discuss them, I will remain to discuss them. If I do not hear from you that you will discuss them, after 10 o'clock to-morrow morning they will be withdrawn absolutely. And this you must remember, that any further arrangement made with you must be upon a new understanding, not upon those offers made at Hikurangi. I have only further to say this, that, if you do not accept them, if you do not discuss them, yet recollect this, that in me you have always a friend. If you see that you have made a mistake, send for me at any other time, and I will help you. And now I wish you all good night. The meeting then broke up.

[From the New Zealand Serald, May 14.] Alexandra, Tuesday. The following is a translation of the letter sent to Tawhiao after 10 o'clock this morning:— " Hauwai, Kopua, 13th May. " Friend Tawhiao, —I send you this letter for the purpose of wishing you and your people good-bye, and saying a few last words to you, as I, in accordance with the statement made in my speech last evening to the Natives, intend to return to Auckland at 10 o'clock to-day. I came here for the third time to meet you and your people, fully expecting that you and they were quite as anxious as myself to bring about a final and satisfactory settlement of all outstanding troubles. It has caused me sorrow to find that such a change has recently taken place in your views, and within so short a time. You and your advisers know the real reasons which have led to this alteration in your disposition, but at present

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lam ignorant of the causes which have influenced you. Hereafter all this will be known, and it will be Been how far you have been wise in rejecting the friendly overtures and substantial proposals made to you on behalf of the Government of the Colony. Friend, there is but one thing which I said in my speech of last evening that I will now repeat to you. This is it: When I leave Kopua to-day, I will take with me all the proposals which I made to you at Hikurangi. I withdraw them absolutely; and if at any time hereafter the Government and yourself should again discuss the terms of settlement, everything will have to begin afresh, and you will not be able to start upon the basis of the Hikurangi proposals, which will have departed this day with me, and will hereafter have ceased to exist. This is not an idle word, for, when twelve months ago I made you those offers, and you asked for time to consult the chiefs of other tribes who were not present at the meeting, I agreed to that course. Thereupon, I caused all the lands which I proposed to give back to you, and all those from which you were to select portions, to be made tapu, so that they might not be purchased, and so lost to you. For twelve months those lands have been tied up, to the great discontent of many who have come into the Waikato District to settle down, and have not been able to procure land. As our arrangement is now ended, the tapu on these lands will be removed, and they will not further be withheld from sale. Friend, good-bye !Do not imagine that Igo away in anger. I was your father's friend. I have been your friend also, and will continue to be your friend in the days to come. I leave, not in anger but in sorrow, because you have not been wise enough to accept the benefits offered to you, and because the hope which I have cherished for years, that I might be the means of placing yourself and your people in a condition of prosperity and peace, has been again deferred. This is all from me.—From your friend,—G. Grey." The Ministerial party embarked on board the war-canoes shortly after 11 o'clock, and arrived at Alexandra at about half-past 2 o'clock.

By Authority: Geobse Didsbttry, G-orernment Printer, Wellington. Price 9d.]