PROVINCIAL COUNCILS POWERS BILL.

Waikato Times, Volume IV, Issue 195, 9 August 1873, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCILS POWERS BILL.

Mr Vogel, in moving the second reading of this bill, said he hoped honorable members would approach the cpnsideration of tint bill in a manner in which it was desirable they should. He believed reports which had been circulated had enlarged the magnitude of the bill to an extent it was altogether undeserving of,, and ho \yould- assure honorable members it wns not at oil so large a measure as some appeared to imagine. The main difficulty which existed with regard to effective legislation by the provinces on subjects which admittedly they ought to legislate upon, w&a on account of the restrictions contained in tLe Constitution Apt. These restrictions were 'as to establishing courts of judicature and altering the jurisdiction anil practice of existing courts. The bill proposed to give to Piovmcial Legislatures power to constitute such courts, and power of altering the practice of courts, but only to the extent and for the purpose of dealing effectively with certain subjects specified in the schedule, unless any .Act of the General Assembly of Kew Zealand should specially entrust them with further powers. The subjects included in the schedule were the prevention, or oure of scab or other disease in sheep ; regulating the sale of fermented and spirituous liquors, and dealing with licenses for such sale ; cattle trespass and impounding cattle ; branding cattle i preventing the spread or growth of noxious thistles; #ie making apd repairing of byways ; the valuation and assessing of properties for rates ; the levying and recovery of rales and appeals against assessments, valuations, or rates ; a,nd, the construction, maintenance, and repair of boundary fences, fie believed that in respect to the- greater part of those matters a Provincial Council would be better able to look after an,d attend to local requirements than the General Legislature. Tim might appear inconsistent with what he said a few days ago with reference to regulating the sale of fermented and spirituous liquors, but it would always be competent for the House to supersede legislation on that subject if it should be deemed desirable to do so, or, as he anticipated would be the ultimate course, not to supersede provincial legislation, but for the Assembly to make certain general laws relating to the sale of intoxicating fluids, and leave nil matters of detail to the Provincial Councils. With respect to this measure, it wouH of course be possible for the Assembly to take some such course as was \doptecl with the Municipal Corporations Act— that was, to pass model acts relating bo all the subjects enumerated, and leave it to the provinces to adopt as much as they from time to time desired. The Government intended to propose that course with the Education Bill, which had been read a first time, but the provisions of which had not yet been oxplained to honorable members. That bill would be a permis»iv© measure, and would be made to apply to Yaviouß parts of tb© colony at the request of the respective Superintendents and Provincial Councils, and would not be applicable unless bo desired. The working would rest with the local authorities, and such a course might be adopted in respect to other acts, including those named in the schedule to this bill. He mw, however, of opinion that it would be better oa the whole to gire authority to the Pcoviucuvl Covmcife to legislate effectually on the matter than the Assembly to attempt to do bo, for he tvqs not; sm» fcbnt the House possessed the requisite local knowledge to deal with these questions effectually. Provincial Councils legislated upon these subjects, and bad done so, but there was a constant doubt, or the constant possibility of a doubt, as to the operation of the ordinances, and this bill might effectually, §pt nlj such doubts at rest. It would appear a rery large power to give to Provincial Legislatures to authorise them to establish courts of judicature, but it must be remembered tba.tto aut^hori^e arbitrators to finally decide particular questions, or to authorise Justices of the Peace to settle question? aa to fencing, or "what should be donewfth shabby sheep, or decide as to the issue of spirit licenses, and other similar matters, was in effect to establish a, new co.urt, and, in the cose 'of justices, possibly to add to the jqrijcliction of tm existing court. Hence, though it appeared to be a very large power which was asked under this, bill, it in regality was , not so. It was provided that ordinances passed under this bill should not come in force until after the expiration of the time during which they might be disallowed by His Excellency the Governor. Another difficulty which had occurred in provincial legislation was that of delegating to another body the power of making by-laws or of enforcing them when made, although by the Provincial Councils Powers Aof of 1856, power of enforcing ordinances was given to Piovincial Councils, but that did not coyer delegation of powers to other bodies to make or enforce by-laws. He was advi«ed thnt the objection which might be taken that this bill extended the jurisdiction of Provincial Councils was not correct, for it did no more than enable Proviucial Councils to deal effectively with subjects admittedly within their jurisdiction. That was the intention of the bill, k and he was not at all disposed to say that when ifc was passing through Committee they might not make modifications of some of its provisions. He believed objections, might be raised to the large limit of the penalties which might be authorised to, be imposed, but that would be a question for consideration in Committee. He might say that the bill wqs not introduced a* a political measure, to raise the question of the existence of the Provinces or the extension of their powers, but simply because the Government considered it desirable that such powers should be intrusted to Provincial Legislatures- $c had the honor to move the second reading of the bill. Mr Bunny thought the Government might have brought down a bill much more acceptable to the colony, and which would set at rest how far the Provincial Councils could proceed with their legislation. He thought they were all too much frightened by the idea that this or that Provincial Act was ultra vires, and they forgot that the General . Legislature derived its power to legislate from, the same source that the Provincial Councils derived their*. Clause 19 of the Constitution Act plainly stated tk.e subjects on which Provincial Councils should not legislate, and that, to any sensible man's mind would imply tha.t they should h%ve power to deal with all other matters. Mr Fox pointed out that the measure did not propose to confer new pAwers, but to presmibe that they might effectually legislate upon a range of subjects which they had been previously in the habit of inefficiently legislating upon. Mr CHllies cordially coincided with the object of the bill, that object being, as he understood it, to remove doubts that had arisen with regard to the exercise of their powers by the Provincial Councils, but he ventured to say that the bill itself did not carry out that alteration at all"; in fact, that it merely mocked them by pretending to fulfil a function it could not perform. Severul other members spoke, after which the bill was read a second time.