TELEGRAPHIC (From the Daily Southern Cross.) PARLIAMENTARY NEWS. WANT OF CONFIDENCE MOTION. FIVE HOURS' SPEECH BY MR VOGEL.

Waikato Times, Volume I, Issue 53, 31 August 1872, Page 2

TELEGRAPHIC (From the Daily Southern Cross.) PARLIAMENTARY NEWS. WANT OF CONFIDENCE MOTION. FIVE HOURS' SPEECH BY MR VOGEL.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday Night. Mr. Vogel, who spoke for five hoars, said since Mr Stafford had taken upon himself to lead the Opposition, the Government had no reason to complain against any factious opposition, and the present motion was a perfectly fafr one, although Mr Stafford had a singular way of showing , that he had no desire for office. With reference to Sir David Monro's accusation, about the colony buying rails from Mr Brogden, he said the colony had money, while, if Mr Brogden advanced the capital, he would require interest on it. After replying at some length on the remarMs of Messrs. Collins, Rolleston, Johnstone, and quoting Mr Rolleston's no-confidence speech in 1869, he alluded to the change in the opinions of Messrs. Bunny and Fitzherbort, relating some facts to show how difficult it was for the General Government to carry on business at the head-quarters of a Provincial Government. He referred to the Brogden contracts Nos. 1 and 2, every detail of which had passed through hi* hands in London. These contracts were then deemsd singularly favourable to the colony- In 1870 Mr Stafford himself, judging from his speech at Timaru, would have been, ready to at such contracts , and it was- unfair now to view them according to the light of subsequent changes of erents. They should be

looked at from the stand-point of the time when they were made- He dll not think that Mr Stafford had ever been in earnest

regarding immigration' and public works from the time when the Government had, a few weeks after taking office, asked for £.30.000 for North Island roads to the present tim©; In reply to Mr Collins's statement of excessive travelling allowances, he said the position of Colonial Ministers was being more and more recognise I at home, and had to be maintained. If the House thought the allowances- he had drawn excessive, he would willingly refund. He reviewed

the whole history, of the Brogden contracts, and quoted innumerable' precedents to show that it was usual elsewhere to let large railway works by private arrangement instead of public tender. Regarding Messrs. Proudfbot and Forrest's offers to undertake railway work the Government attached no importance to them. In reply to another offer last session, Air Proud foot was informed that under resolution of the House the works in question had to be given to Mr Brogden. Knowing therefore that no offer could be accepted, they were perfidy safe in making any sort of one. The first thing the Government had done was to determine tho time and order of the works to bo contracted, and then, in order to save time until further tenders could be given, the temporary ten per cent, arrangement is made with Mr Brogden for a few weeks. He did not think this ex cessive, alth u/h M r Brogden would have been satisfied with 5 per cent, if the English contracts had been carripd out. In the first order for rails and for material of two works —one at Auckland and the other at Dunedin, which would probably be useful for all contractors — Mr Brogden's assistance was valuable, and he received commission, but on subsequent large orders it had been refused. With reference to the Mataura and Invercargill line, Mr Brogden's first tender was £iß'3,4'J2, Mr Carruthers reported that this was too high, 135,425 being his estimate. Mr. Brogden's tender was refused, and he was told that the Governor would uot give above Mr Carruther's estimate, which was £22,000 beyond Mr Brunton's. Mr. Brogden, after going through the items again, tendered at £139,856, which Mr Carruthers advised the Government to accept, although £1,600 above his own estimate. In this tender Mr Brogden wanted a guarantee against the rise in the price of iron and 10 per cent upon its cost. The Government eliminated both items, and accepted the tender at £36,697. The line would now be completed for £137,000 or £28-36 below the tender which Mr Carruthers had advised them to accept as reasonable. With reference to the Clutha line, he reviewed all the provincial negotiations for its construction, reminding the House how Mr Reid had ridiculed his statement in Dunedin that it could be done for £270,000, when Mr Reid wanted to spend £400,000 upon it» and give the promoters of the company a bonus of £15-000 beside. The present cost would be £276,000, notwithstanding the rise in the price of iron. The whole of the railways would be the cheapest in the world, not costing above £5000 per mile. If Mr Brogden made money out of the contract he would do it by skill, and would deserve it, for he also had a risk of loss. He referred to the terms the province gave for the Port Chalmers railway which the Government was negotiating to purchase. He had also instructed the Agent-General to endeavour to redeem the Port Chalmers railway debentures in London at £90, although the province had sold them at £80. With reference to his original budget of 1870 calculations, he said they dated from the time the money would be raised. The first three years would expire in June, 187-1; aud before that time he still hoped to see a profit of £10,000 a year realised from railways. His original scheme of putting aside railway estate had not been carried out; but the land sales showed an increase of £139,000, and surely some of that was indirectly due to the present policy- The sale to Colonel Fielding was directly so. He defended the AgentGeneral, and protested against condemning him after only a year's trial in a difficult and novel position. With reference to Mr Gillies's charge about Fort Britomart he said that tenders had b-en called for privately, and that letters from Auckland stated that the present contractor was likely to be a heavy loser. He defended the San Francisco mail service, and denied that it had stopped the formation of an English company. That was owing to the outbreak of the German war. He read an official letter giving this reason. Excepting the Land Transfer and Telegraph Departments, the departmental expenses had decreased since the present Government took office. The increase in the cost of those departments was far below the increased amount of business. He also included the Native and Defence department. He denied that the colony was in a b&d financial condition. After paying off £100,000 deficiency bills, they still had £10,000 to their credit. Althongh they had no power during the session to re issue such bills, he had on Saturday paid off the £100,000, and on that day the balance at the Bank to the credit of the colony, after paying this, stood thus: Credit to Consolidated Fund, £62,600, or total to all funds, £318,000. Taking the estimated revenue and liabilities up to the end of October, there wo aid be a balance of £116,000 to the credit of the Consolidated Fund on that date. When was the Treasury ever in such a condition before ?

He was prepared to show that a less number of the members of tUo Assembly bad received appointments from the present tbau from the previous Government- The Government was,, and always had beony willing to accept thoassistance of the provinces, but only lately had that been cordially given 'in some provinces. The Government were not aware of llr Gillies's oiler of provincial officers to carry on works north of Auckland. They would gladly receivo provincial assistance, but would not consent to any formal delegation. Sinco tho Government took office the defence expenditure had been reduced enormously, while during- that period only 1 !■}()• lives had been sacrificed. against 772 nn lor their predecessors. He believed tho state of the colony did credit to the Government. The appointment. of a .Resident Minister for the MidJlo Island had been tried as an experiment. Hut owing to departmental difficulties it had not worked well despite the great ability shown by the Resident Minister, and at the end of the session the separate establishment would bo discontinued, and ministerial portfolios be redistributed. ling tho absenco from the seat of Government of Ministers, now that the number of Ministers had been increased they would always keep a quorum at Wellington! but would also take care to visit all parts of the colony, it would be a reproach to constitutional government if Mr Stnttord's resolutions were carried,, for it would show that men and not measures influenced the decision, of the House. Ministers had personally no groat desire to retain office, but they were bound to resist the motion to that elToct.

Mr JiollesLon (Canterbury), quoted Mr. Stuart Mill in support of the principle of local administration. The Government should have had practical experience of this, ;ui the only rag of results they had to show for the scheme was in the Canterbury works, which had been done with the assistance of the Provincial Government. The Ministry had shown a want of administrative ability, and tho members did not work in concert. It was apolitical monstrosity for one man to be Treasurer and Post-master-general, administering finance and making gigantic contracts. Tlie colony was really becoming governed by departmental autocracy. The responsibility of Mr. Brogden's affairs rested solely with Ministers, and the present contracts to 800,(KM would in reaiity amount to more than a million promised to Mr. JBrogden. Besides, those contracts excede I the authorised contracts £120,000. What was termed rolling stock contract was really to give to Mr. Brogden 5 per cent, for writing his name and doing the Agent-General's work. He complained more of what had been left undone than what had been done in Canterbury. The Government's idea of immigration was simply bringing people anyhow and from anywhere. Shaw and Saville's Canterbury service had been entirely unsatisfactory, but tho Agent-General should not have let the shipping contract without competition. Mr. McLean's attitude on the native question was an attempt made to overpower all other considerations and traverse tho real issue. If this were tried, either native affairs would have to be removed beyond the pale of General Government admiuistiation and Parliamentary action, and a kind of native Brogden set up, or else the area of Constitutional Government would have to be limited. Mr McLean was making a strong point in favour of separation. What tiio country needed was a Legislative and Administrative) reform—a definition of the powers and responsibilities of central and local authorities, so as to run in parallel grooves, without collision ; also a definition of finance, to say when they were to stop borrowing and give the provinces and road boards somo certainty. As to reform in the Civil Service, a system of open contracts was also required. Notwithstanding Mr. Vogel's earnestness, great ability, energy, and honesty of purpose, he personified all that was retkleis and mischievous in the administration, and was one of the greatest evils that had ever befallen the country. Air. Fox was oidy nominally Premier, and in the hands of Mr. McLean. Mr. Vogel had falsified all the promises on which he took office. Of Mr. Reeves, since he joined the Ministry, he, as Superintendent of Canterbury, had no reason to complain. lie did not, however, fear that even two or three Yogels would ruin the country

Sir David Monro.—He had been convinced that the affairs of the colony were not bjiing satisfactorily mauaged, bat he did not thifik that they were in such a muddle until he heard the evidence adduced during the present debate. Irregular as Mr. Vogel's conduct had been in delivering the Budget in the face of a vote of want-of-confidenco, it was slight compiled with Mr. McLean's conduct in announcing the intention in native matters of a Ministry which had probably only a few days to live. He must have known that his doing so would, from the importance which natives attach to his word, seriously compromise and embarrass his successors whatever changes took place. However, no reversal of the peace policy was possible, nor was any reversal of the public policy, although he believed it would result in the colony being a heavy loser. He then gave a history of the Government policy, contrasting it unfavourably with the public works po!icy of Victoria. Kail ways were being twisted about to suit the amount of money available, and the Blenheim line would be a disgrace to the colony. By the Biogden contracts the colony lost alike the advantage of employing small contractors and the employment of large capitalists. Mr. Brogden ran no risk, and the colony even bought the rails for him. The Government had grossly abused their power of patronage, and had inculcated lessons that the avenue to advancement and profit lay through the door of political prostitution. Servile political dishonesty was a worse evil than drunkenness : a Permissive Bill was required to protect truth, honour, and politieal honesty. He drew a similar picture to Mr. Kollcston's of Messrs, Fox and Vogel, and denied that Stafford had any desire for office. Taking it as not compatible with his personal arrangements, he had only consented to come forward at urgent pressure. In conclusion he urged the Hoase to forget the past, and rise above a spiiit of petty contention to a sense of dujy to the country, and place the administration in other hands