PARLIAMENT.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3343, 11 November 1871, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

■■ ■ ■» HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thuesdat, Novembee 9. The Speaker took the chair at half-past one o'clock. COLONIAL CONFERENCE. Mr MURRAY asked the Government, if they would, during the recess, correspond with the Governments of Australia and Tubmania, with a view to arranging questions of colonial importance and advancing coloniul interests upon the basis of a federal conference ? Mr FOX said the only answer he could give was that the Government had no intention of entering into any abstract questions of the kind. He was afraid if they have to rush to the other colonies with unnecessary propositions of the kind, they would be looked upon bb schoolboys or enthu&iastio members of a debating society. If by the action of any of the other colonies the question assumed a form which would justify the Q-overnment in entering into the matter, they would have no objection whatever to do so. COAL FIELDS. Mr HARRISON asked the Minister of Public Works, if the General Government had had their attention drawn to the,advisabiHty of assuming authority in the principal coal fields of the colony, and whethtfr the Government intend taking any steps in that direction ? It had eccurred to him that in the working of their coal mines large sums of money had been spent and were about to be spent, and no provision had been made for the control of the moneys to be spent. He felt there would be great necessity for some such control as he had suggested in the case of the Brunner coal mine, where, a» soon as the expenditure under the act was commenced, they would have part conduoted under the direction of the County Chairman of the County Council of Westland, and part under the Superintendent of the province of Nelson. Under such ciroumstanceß he wished to point out that there was a great necessity for uniform aotion. Mr GISBOBNE said the Government quite recognised the importance of the matter to which the hon member had drawn attention. It was a subject to which they had not directed their attention, but it was one, in connection with the railways to be considered, to which they would have to devote a considerable amount of care, and with that view would communicate with the Superintendent of Nelson on the subjeot. Not having hud their attention previously drawn to the particular point, he could not at present give a more definite reply. AMENDMENTS BY LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Municipal Corporations Bill, the Wellington City Reserves Bill, the Civil Service Act Amendment Bill, and the Native District Road Boards Bill. MEDICAL PBAOTITIONEBS BKGISTBATION BILL. This bill, introduced to meet complaints' similar to those contained iv petitions presented to the House early in the session, was read a second time, committed, read a third time, and passed. LUNDON AND WHITAKER CLAIMS BILL. The House went into committee on this bill. The claims of Messrs Whitaker and Lundon were keenly debated from one side. Mr G. M'Lean, Mr Gillies, Mr J. E. Brown, Mr Caldeb, Mr Reynolds and Mr T. Kei.lt stated that it was their intention not to hare taken any part in the discussion of the bill, but the special advooacy of Mr Bell in behalf of the claimants compelled them to wntch the passage of the bill in the interests of the colony. Mr Bell openly confessed that he did not pretend to be impartial this case, and quite admitted that he was arguing for one side, because he supposed there were members on the other side doing the same. A proposal by Mr Brandon that the judge to whom the matter was to be submitted for settlement should have power to call evidence to enable liira to arrive at a just decision, was npgatived, the numbers on division being 27 to 24. Mr Reynolds complained of the unsatisfactory way in which the votes had been obtained on the question just decided. The bill wus then reported to the House, and the motion for the third reading having been put, Mr ; SHEPHEBD hoped the Government would take such, steps as would secure that when the case vias tried before the Judge at Auckland, the necessary witnesses should be culled, and that the case should be conducted in such a manner as would satisfy the public as well as those who were doubtful as to the nature of the claims of Messrs Lundon and Whitaker. Everything that took place in connection with the case would be very carefully scrutinised, and he hoped for that reason that the proceedings would be of an impartial nature. He hoped the Government would give him an assurance that such a course would be observedMr O-ISBORNE Baid the Government would do everything they could to have a thorough, searching, and impartial investigation into the whole ca3o, nnd that they would take care to do full justice to the interests of the colony. PAYMENTS TO PROVINCES BILT.. Mr FOX brought up the reason for disagree* ing with the amendment of the Legislative Council iv this bill. The reason assigned was that the Legislative Council has not power to expunge the clauses. NEW BAILWAYS. The House went into committee to consider proposals for new railways. Mr GISBORNB announced that whatever lines might be agreed to in this committee would only be taken as suggestions, and that when the Railways Bill was further considered in committee the Government would definitely announce its opinions on the lines proposed, He then proposed the following new clause, which was agreed to : — The Government may construct and maintain, or cause to be constructed or maintained under the provisions of the said act and this act, the several line 9 of railway in the province of Canterbury, specified in the third schedule, hereto, ajid to meet the cost of such construction, there eh til, and may from time to time be issued in the construction of such railways mentioned in the said schedule, any sum or sums of money, not exceeding in the whole the sum of ninety thousand pounds, and bucli Bum or sums, shall be issued and applied out of any moneys for the time being available from the Middle leland railway fund for the construction of railways in the Province of Canterbury, and out of the sum of forty-two thousand pounds, appropriated by the Superintendent and Provincial Council of Canterbury towards the cost of the construction of the said railways, which sums so appropriated, the Superintendent of the eaid province is hereby authorised to pay into the Publio Works aa- ' count, and so far as the moneys for the time being available from the said several funds are Fnsufficient to meet any of such costs as shall for the time being come in course of payment, then ouch deficiency, shall and may be issued and applied out of any moneys for the time being stauding to the orodit of the Publio Works acoount. The cost of the construction of such railways and of the maintenance and working thereof, so iar as the same, shall be defrayed out. of other moneys than the Middle Island Bnilwuy Fund, and tho said moneys appropriated by the Provincial Legislature of Canterbury shall be oharged against tK^S^rovince of Canterbury in the same manner as p&\ vided by the said amending Act with regard to main railways. Mr J. C BROWN proposed, the insertion in the first schedule of a line from Tokomariro to Lawrence, in the provinoe of Otago. Mr SHEPSERD seconded the motion. He considered the proposed line would bu one of the most important that could be constructed, not only to the interests of the province, but to the interests of the whole colony. He considered it a great mistake to have left the recommendations of the lines to be constructed to the Provincial Councils of the colony. It was now obvious that those recommendatione

iad for their object the benefiting of private propert v. Mr GISBORNE said thut looking at the aatuiv of the country through which the line would piss, they had come to the conclusion that it could not bo considered as a branch line, but was essentially and substanitilly a main line, and should not be treated as a branch line. Therefore the Government were propared to nsk the Assembly to put the line in tho schedule of main lines. The motion was agreed to. Mr T. KELLY proposed the addition to the sehedulo of the line between Taranaki and Warignnui. He would therefore move the addition of the words '" Waitara, in tho proTirop of Paranaki, to Wangnnui. Mr GISBORNE would at once state that the Government were willing to agree to tho proposal and would recommend the Assembly to sanction the construction of the line. Of course the parts to be nonstruoted and the time of their construction, must be left to the Government, Mr CARRINGTON hoped tho railway would be commenced at both ends simultaneously. The molion was agreed to. Mr BELL proposed tho following motion : — " That this committee recommmends that provi«-"»sajß&miU?»s, made for the construction of a Ifiie between iff o A*hhurton and Temuka, so as to continue fcf»e line of communication between Rangioru find Timaru. Mr STAFFORD announced at this point of the discussion that it was by sheer accident j that ho happened to be in the House. He ■would now repeat thufc it was his intention i not to lake any part in the Bcrutnble into which the great scheme of tho Government had degenerated. He might prefix many adjectives to the word "scramble," but he would leave that scrambling to members to whom such an occupation was congenial. [Mr Stafford walked out of the House.] The motion of Mr Bei.l was agreed to. Mr G. M'LEAN proposed that the line between Moeraki and Waikouait should be surveyed so aa to continue the communication Port Chalmers or Dunedin. Mr GILLIES said that as recommendations seemed ro be given from all quarters he would make a recommendation " That in the opinion of the Council the country generally ou»ht to b<s surveyed in order to ascertain where lines of railway would be useful and profitable, and that a report should be mude in a future session." Mr YOGEL eaid the best plan now would be to move that the Chairman do report progress. Then every member could make his suggestions, and the Government would come down to the House to morrow and say which they would be prepared to accept. Those proposals which were not handed in to night would not be entertained. Mr GISBORNE said the principle the Government had anted upon was that only Ihose lines which had been surveyed should be gone on with. Some of those railways even might not be gone on with for six or seven years, and it would be useless to receive euggestions for an indefinite number of railways, Mr REYNOLDS hoped the Wellington and Masterfon line would be one o£ those not to be undertaken for six or seven years. Mr REID said, as the Government did not seem to confine themselves to the schedule, he j had a railway to propose. As the question of railways had now resolved itself into a scramble, ho had a duty to perform to his constituents, and he would propose the addition to the eehedule of a line from Mosgiel to Outram. This would be a very important line, and as every line already proposed was going to create a great amount of traffic, he could aesurej the House that this line would create an enormous amount of traffic. Mr REYNOLDS thought the Government Bbould at once definitely cay which lines were to be constructed and which were not. Mr RHODES said he would propose a line that would be a very beneficial one — that from Chrißtchurch to Akaroa. Mr YOGEL said he had observed a smile on the face of the hon member for Taieri wheu he mad bis proposal. He hoped tho hon member would not turn the Government proposals into buffoonery. Mr REID objected to the Colonial Treasurer attempting to put members down by snubbing. His occupation of a scat on the Government benches for the time being did not confer the right to treat members in any such manner. His position in the House wus quite as important as that of Mr Yogel, MrBEI Lsaid the Government had brought the difficulty on themselves. They had iome down to the Hoiue with proposals which he, as a thick and thin supporter of the Government, was bound to support, and now they were inviting suggestions from members on all Bides, instead of confining themselves to, and taking a stand upon their own schedule. They were, in fact, by the present action, asking the House to completely reverse the policy enunciated in the financial statement. Mr O'CONOR gave notice of his intention to move that a lino should be constructed from Mount Roehforl to the Buller. The House having resumed, the CnAIiiMAN reported that, the committee had come to certain resolutions, which were ordered to be considered to- morrow. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. A number of messages were received from the Legislative Council, amongst which was ene announcing that the Upper House insisted on its amendments made in tho Public Revenues Bill, which contained an objection to the union of the offices of ControllerGeneral and Auditor-General, on the ground that it was not consistent with the public interest, and would effect no saving of public money, to permit the amalgamation of the offices. Mr YOGEL said that whilst he could not at all agree that it was to the interest of the country thut the other branch of the Legislature should interfere in a subject of which it was quite impossible tLey could be possessed of any accurate knowledge, the Controller being an officer of the House of Representatives, having tho control of funds appropriated by the House on behalf of the taxpayers of the aountry, and whilst he could not conceal from himself that such an interference was of an unwiße nature, he must admit that it j was not absolutely an interference with the appropriation of funds, and therefore was not quite unconstitutional. He could not allow the mattor to pass without remarking that whilst; members were quite willing to moralise and talk of reducing the public expenditure the moment the House came to reduce that expenditure by proposing to touch the salary of any particular person, and that person wsb fortunate enough to have frienda in the House, there was at once an impediment in the way of reduction. This propoßal, however, was not to reduce expenditure, but to alter an unwise provision, which ho might say had, by accident, got into the Public Revenues Act. It was not because he agreed with the proposal of the other branch of the Legislative, or because he considered that body had been very well advised, or that he had taken into consideration how strong the personal influence which kad been brought to bear to cause an interference in the matter, that he now moved that the amendments be agreed to, but because it was now too late in the session to interfere in the matter. He would, therefore, ask the House to agree with him wheu he moved that the amendments of the ct&er branch of the Legislative be agreed Mr ROLLESTON said he must protest xuoßfc strongly against the statements of tho Colonial Treasurer. He entirely disagreed with what had fallen from the hon gentleman, and considered that it was a very wrong thing that the question of personal influence should have been brought in by the Government. The Colonial Treasurer had stated that the striking out of the clause was the result of personal influence, nnd that because individuals bad friends in the Legislature therefore changes of this kind, which were advantageous to the country, were prevented. The hon gentleman knew, and nobody knew better,

that tho change effected by the bill was deprecated by the Public Accounts Committee — that there waß, in fact, an understanding with that committee fchut the clause should be struck out. At anyrate he thought it was objectionable that the Government should state in the House that personal influence had been brought to bear by the members of both branches of the Legislature to carry out objects detrimental to the public interests. Mr J. E. BROWN though the questions of personal influence should not have boen referred to, but they were indebted to no one member of the House for that kind of influence more than to the hon member for Avon. When it was proposed that any reduction should be made in the estimates, when they were before the House, the hon member was the first to urge personal considerations ; in fact it was a hobby with the hon member, and yet he objected to any reference being made to it in the House. He could tell the hon member that the civil servants had nothing to thank him for ; his advocacy of their interest in the Houso had done more to injure their cause than anything else, and he could hardly complain when the Colontal Treasurer told him of the result of his action. Mr YOGEL said the hon member must have been mistaken in what he stated about the Public Accounts Committee having come to Bueha decision ashe had mentioned, or that the Government had entered into any such agreement as that he had spoken of. It might be very agreeable to him to suppose what he had stated. The hon member did not surprise him at all by his protest against tho objections of the Government to the exercise of personal influence in the House, because the very life of the hon member was embraced in the exercise of his personal influence in the House. When an important discussion came on in the House the hon member failed altogether to listen to any arguments adduced, but immediately began buzzing about, Baying to hon members, "Oh, you must do so and so; never mind the speeches that are being made." He was not speaking without warrant when ho stated that there was a large amount of personal influence exercised in" this matter. He thought he was not incorrect in saying that the hon member had written a letter on the subject, which was read in the other branch of the Legislature when the matter came before it. He would repeat that personal influence had had a great deal to do with the throwing out of the clause in the other House. He was quite aware that some hon members had read the dause upon its merits, but he certainly did not expect that the other branch of the Legislature would have interfered in a way which certainly this House would not have expected them to interfered in a matter in which they had not the same means of judging as had the members of that House. He suid that such an interference barely fell short of an unconstitutional proceeding, and he only regretted that the lateness of the session prevented him fighting out the question aa it should be fought out. THIBD HEADINGS. The following bills were read a third time : The Representation Act Amendment Bill, the Provincial Acts "Validation Continuance Bill (to enable the Provincial Councils to adapt their acts to the Highway Boards Bill), the East Coast District Land Titles Validation Bill, the Poverty Bay Grants ict Amendment Bill, the Plan of Towns Regulation Bill (with a new clause, providing that any person laying down a street in contravention of the act should be guilty of a misdemeanor), the Timaru and Gladstone Board of Works Act Amendment Bill* Friday, November 10. Tho Speaker took the chair at half-past 1 o'clock, PAYMENT OF MEUBERS. Mr FITZHERBERT, the House having gone into committee, moved " that the payment of members be fixed at £105 per regular session, 40a per diem being deducted for each sitting-day a member may be absent from attendance, unless he be prevented from attending by illness. Special sessions, if any, to be paid for at the rate of 20s per day. That the above rule of payment shall continue in force during the present Parliament and apply to the present session, and be exclusive of I ravelling expenses to and from Parliament, the above proposed scale of payment not to refer to the Speakers of the two Houses, Ministers of the Crown, and to the Chairman of Committees." The Select Committee appointed by the House had met and discussed the matter, and had requested him aB chairman, to propose the above resolution, which was founded on the report of the committee. He would observe that although it was now lute in the session, it would be very undesirable that tho matter should be tided over till the next session, when there would be a repetition of the discussion which took place at the early part of the present session. The investigations of tho committee had led them to this conclusion : that whereas the general opinion was that the principle of payment of members was an exceptional custom, they found, on tho contrary, that the payment of members was the rule, and that the non-payment was the exception. A discussion on the motion ensued. An amendment moved by Mr O'Conor, that instead of 40s per diem being deducted for non-afctandance of members, an amount proportionate to the length of the session should be deducted, was corned. The payment is to extend to members who reside in the place where the Parliament is held, Mr Fitziierbert staling that the question had been discussed in the committee, and the special stipulation unanimously agreed to. The motion was then agreed to. CONSTUCTION OF BAILWAYS. Mr REID asked the Minister for Public Works whether the Government had considered Messrs Connor, M'Eay & Proudfoofc's offer to construct railwayo ; if co, whether they are of opinion that the terms of that offer are as favorable to the colony as those of the agreements made or about to be made with the Messrs Brogden, assuming that payment is to made in cobli or debentures? Also, what action the Government intend to take in reference to the above or any similar offer ? Mr GISBORNE said the Government had been so pressed with legislative duties during the last few days that they had not been ablo to consider tho offer, and ho did not think they would be able to do so until tho session closed. Tho railways to be gone on with would then have been decided on, and they would then come to a decision on the matter. In the meantime it was impossible that the Government could have arrived at such a definite conclusion as was due to so important a matter. Mr REID said as it Beemed impossible to get any answer from the Government during the session, he would repeat tho question "after the session." THE TELECiEAPII INQUIRY. Mr STAFFORD brought up tho report of the Telegraph Committee, which will be found elsewhere. The hon gentleman stated that he had been very anxious to get the report in time to be laid before the Houso that day. He moved that tho report be received. On the motion of Mr Yogel, the report was read. Mr YOGEL desired to know whether tho hon member intended to move that the report be adopted. After the great attention which had been bestowed on the subject, the House would be rather stultifying itself by not adopt ing the report of the committee. If the hon member did not move that the report be adopted he should bo compelled to do bo himself. Mr STAFFORD had no objection to move the adoption of the report, but whatever day was fixed there Bhould be sufficient time given to memberß to consider the evidence, and those who desired to do so should have an opiiortunity of reading the whole of it before entering into a discussion on tho consideration of the report. As a general rule the House, of course, could express an opinion with re gard to reports, but nothing was more absurd than the motions made by some hon members that the House should concur in the reports

immediately they are brought up, because that assumed that the House had done what the Committee had done, viz, that they had heard the evidence. Ho was quite willing that the report should be willing because it was desirable that the House and the country should bo made aware that the chargOß had, as he himself believed, been substantially removed. He was not prepared to move the adoption of the report at that moment, but would move thufc the report be considered tomorrow. Mr CREIGHTON thought there would not be sufficient time to consider the evidence before to morrow. He must say that, for one, he had heard the contents of the report read with a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction, and he hud no doubt it would be received with the same feelings when it was circulated throughout the country. The hon member for Timaru had certainly not moved the motion in any friendly spirit to the Government, and he hoped the report would be bound up and printed with (he journals of the House. Mr M'LEAN thought it would be nothing but right that the hon member for Tiraaru should move that the report be adopted tomorrow. Hon members had had plenty of opportunity of hearing the evidence, and aa it was all in print now, those members who desired to debate the question would have plenty of time to consider the evidence before to-morrow. After all that had taken place, it was extremely desirable that tho report should be adopted, and that it should go to the country in an authoritative form. Mr SHEPHERD said he was perfectly satisfied with the report of the committee, and was quite prepared to accept it as giving a fair statement of all the facts of the case. He did not desire to read the evidence to enable them to debate the question. He quite agreed that the report should be adopted by the House in order to set aside the injurious influences which had been spread throughout the colony. He looked upon the report of the committee aB the best and only moans of restoring that confidence in the Telegraph department which it was desirable should exist. Mr YOGEL wished to make a few observations before the question was put. He did not desire to provoke any discussion, nor did he desire to pufc any hon member to any inconvenience, but he was sure hon members would sympathise with the Government, and would admit that during the early part of the Bession thej were subjected to a great amount of contumely on account of certain matters in connection with this eubjecr. He was now happy to say that the hon member for Timaru had conducted the matter with the greatest consideration towards the Government. Mr ROLLESTON said that whether the report was considered to-morrow or not, he was quite Bure that the country would respond to tho of the telegraph depart ment and the Government. Mr FOX said the Government wore quite satisfied with the result of the inquiry, and, no doubt, there were many disingenuous persons who would be satisfied too $ but there were other disingenuous persons who would say, " Oh, but that report was not considered by the House." Ha hoped the House would consent to consider the report next duy. Mr STAFFORD then moved, That the House has received the report of the Telegraph Committee with great satisfaction. The motion was agreed to. NELSON SOUTH WEST QOIJ)VIBLD3 Mr HARRISON proposed, Thufc it is desirable that the Government should during the recess devote its attention to the subject of the application of the goldfields' revenue to goldfields purposes, with a view to introducing a measure in the next session to secure the expenditure of the rt venues raised under the Goldfields' Duties Act, 1853, and the Goldfields' Act, 1866, for the purposes to which such revenues were by the said acts intended to be applied, Mr CURTIS would not object to the motion, provided the hon member would permit the addition of the words, " Provided that the Government shall find, on inquiry, that tho goldfields' revenue has not been so expended." A long discussion between tho two hon members ensued upon the motion. Mr YOGEL requested tho hon member to withdraw the motion. It was the intention of tho Government to bring down a bill next session, which would satisfactorily deal with the matter ; in fact, the bill the Government would bring down would be in the nature of a new Constitution Act. MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from His Excellency the Governor, transmitting the Land Transfer Act, the Wellington Reclaimed Land Aot, and the Supplementary Estimates. Amendment was made in the Reclaimed Land Act. In the debentures to be raised by the city for the purpof eof carrying out the arrangement for the purchase of tho wharf, there was no provision by which the Building Society would purchase debentures. The amendment enablsd the Building Society to take up shares, if they should so fool inclined. The other amendments were agreed to. MKBSAGB FROM THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Ihe SPEAKER read the reußons aßsignod by the Legislative Council disagreeing in the course suggested by the House of Representatives in reference to this bill. Managers were appointed to draw up further reasons, and to report to the ITouso, and at a subsequent stajje Mr Fox brought up the reasons, which were in effect, " that it is beyond the power of the Legislative Council to alter or vary the distribution of moneys authorised by the Assembly." SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES. Supplementary Estimates were brought down to tho House and passed. PUBUC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE. Mr Fitziierbkkt brought up the report of the Public Accounts Committee. Important matters were contained in it with reference to the system of audit, upon which Mr Yogel made a statement to the House in effect simiInr to tho opinions already expre?sod by him during the pussuge of the Public Debts Bill. THE WELLINGTON DEBTS BILL. This bill wud transmitted from the Legislative Council A'ith amendments, which were disagreed with, and managers appointed by the House to confer with the Legislative Council. NEW RAILWAYS. Mr GLSBORNE announced that the Government would consent to the addition of the following lines to tho schedules: — Tokomairiro to Lawrence, Mount Roehfort to the Buller (coal line), and Ashburton to Tomuka, tho first not to bo commenced until the com men cement of the trunk lino. The Govornment would also consent to the construction of the line from Waitara to Wanganui, but would ask Ihe House for a further appropriation of £50,000. Surveys would also be pro posed of the lines from Dunedin to Moeraki, and from Auckland to Onehunga. These were the only additions the Government would assent to. The committee having agreed to the proposals, they were reported to the House. The committee then went into committee to further consider THE RAILWAYS BILL. The railways agreed to in a former committee were added to tho Bchodule of the bill. The line from Rolleston to Mulvern, Canterbury province, was trans/erred from the coal line schedule, and made a branch line. The bill wus then read a third time, and passed. THE BRANIGAN PENSION BILL. Thie bill was read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr Swanson and Mr Gillies announced their intention to oppose tho bill, Mr M'LEAN, in answer to Mr Reid, said he would insert a clause providing that the pension should cease in the event of Mr Branigan'a recovery. PAItTY PBOOEBBIONS BILL. The second reading of this bill was proposed, but much opposition being offered, tho Government promised to make known its opinion on the bill next duy.

rjIE IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS ACT. This bill was committed. All olauses relating to the Board of Works had been expunged. In amendment was proposed in the clause providing that portion of the Nelson share of the Middle Island Railway Fund should bo spent on roadß in the Nelson South-west Goldfields, to thi6 effect : that instead of leaving it to the Governor in Council to settle tho amount, a definite proportion of 4-llths should be applicable to the South-west Goldfields. The Government promised to bring down a new clause on the subject. The House was sitting in committee when wo went to press.