PARLIAMENT.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3341, 9 November 1871, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, November 8. The Speaker took the chair at 1.30. WELLINGTON RECLAIMED LAND BILL. Mr BUNNY, the Legislative Council having refused to agree in the amendments of the Lower House, moved that the former resolution of the House of Representatives declining to agree to the amendments be rescinded, and that they be now agreed to. The House concurred and the amendments of (he Legislative Council were agreed to. PETITION. Mr O'CONOR presented a petition from 466 inhabitants of tLe Innngahun, Westport district. Mr M'LEOD presented a petition from Roman Catholic inhabitants in the district of the Bay of Islands with reference to the Education Bill. PETITIONS COMMITTED. Several reports were brought up by the Chairman of this Committee. One related to tho claim of a person, whoso name we failed to ascertain, who had been wrongfully confined as a lunatic at Dunedin. He now claimed compensation on tbe ground that his property had been illegally dealt with by Mr Cutomore, the registrar of the Supreme Court. The report of the comrultee recommended that the petitioner was entitled to the sum of £300 to be paid by the General Government, for tho unwarrantable action of one of the public servants, such amount to be recovered from the officer if posssiblo. The report of the committee on the petition of Simon Saunders, was also read. It stated that the committee having made inquiries, and having examined Captain Fairchild, of the Luna, and also the Harbor Master of Taranaki, were satisfied that the Huou Belle had not sustained any damage through the neglect of ths Government, as the wreck of the Gundagai ,was 300 yards from the place where she was injured. The committee reported that the petitioner had nu claim ; that tho petition was one of thosg attacks on the public purse which were becoming too frequent. AUCKLAND POLICE. Mr WILLIAMSON asked tho Colonial Secretary, whether it was the attention of the Government to restore to the Provincial Government tbe appointment of officers and men, and the management and direction of tl.e Auckland Police force, in compliance with the unanimous wish of the Provincial Council of that province? The mover said that there was the possibility of the present force being called away on the occcurrence of any emergency, so that tho city of Auckland would be left, without any police force. Mr M'LEAN said the Superintendent of the province had informed the Government thut he found the Constabulary to be quite a sufficient poiice force for Auckland, not only for the ordinary duties, but for any circumstances which might arise which would render it desirable to have the assistance of other forces, in addition to the ordinary police. Ho was aware that a difference had arisen between the Superintendent and his Executive on the mutter, and that tho Superintendent of tho province still adhered to the arrangement with the General Government. He had not had an opportunity of communicating with that gentleman during tho last few days, so that the Government could not say what course would be the best to take. He would state it as his opinion that it would be beneficial if a general arrangement of a similar nature to that in the province of Auckland were made for the whole colony, because they had had evidence that the police duties might be inadequately performed if left to local management. It would also be much better that members of the force should be strangers to the inhabitants of the towns, and not that they should bo acquainted with and be known to the criminal classes. Mr GILLIES said it was evident that there was a misapprehension on the part of the hon member, Mr Williamson. The Provincial Government had always had tho management and direction of tho police force. The General Government had merely provided the men, who were always at the disposal of the authorities. PABTY PROCESSION BILL. This bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-moriow. PAYMENTS TO PROVINCES BILL. Mr FOX moved that the amendments made by the Legislative Council in this bill be not agreed to. Mr G. M'LEAN moved that the amendments be agreed to. Capt M'PHERSON seconded the amendment. The SPEAKER said he would be ill performing his duty if he did not inform the House that tho amendments made by tho Legislative Council were clearly beyond its functions. Mr J". E. BROWN said he was one of those who voted for the amendments when tha bill was before the Lower House, so that he quite agreed with the amendments made. But there was now a higher duty before them — the defence of the constitutional rights of tho House of Representatives, and he should strongly support tho Premier in insisting that the amendments be disagreed with. He thought the time had now come of which they had been warned a few evenings ago by Mr Stafford, and they should at once take steps to resist any interference by the Legislative Council in appropriation bills passed by the House. Mr GISBORNE hoped thoße hon gentlemen who had moved and seconded the amendment would not persist in their action. They wore young members, and wero not aware of the importance of the point involved. The question was now one amounting almost to high treason against the rights of the people. They were sent to that House by the votes of the people, and it was their exclusive duty to legislate in the way of taxation and appropriation, and not to bo dictated to by a body composed of nominees of the Crown. Mr REID, though agreeing with some of the amendments made by the Legislative Council, must insist that the rights of the House of Representatives be insisted upon. He not only agreed that tho Legislative Council had no right to interfeie with tho bill before the House ; ho thought there were other portions of the constitution of that body which required reform. Mr STAFFORD agreed with much that had already been said. Mr Reid had anticipated him in what ho wished to say. Although he agreed in terms with the amendments made he had to repeat that tho House Bhould insist on its constitutional rights, and he was willing to become one of the managers appointed to decide the matter. Mr FITZHERBERT, as a means of meeting the viewß of those who agreed with tho amendment, and at the same time wished to insist on tho constitutional rights of the House, would move, " That this House doth disagree with the amendments made by tho Legislative Council, for this, amongst other reasons, that in making these amendments the j Legislative Council lias exceeded its constitutional powers." Mr FOX desired to amend his motion so as to exactly meet the case. He would now move — " That this House doth disagree with the amendments made in sections 14, 15, 28, and 29, because such amendments interfered with the privileges of tbo Houeo of Ropresen- , tatives, and because tho amendments made

were beyond the functions of (he Legislativ 6 Council." Mr Murray and Mr Calder objected to standing too much upon form. The former gentleman thought it w.-is becoming ridiculous, this following o{ tho forms of the House of Lords, while the latter merely desirod that some more definite case should be laid down for the guidance of the House. In reply to this challenge, The SPEAKER again laid it down that the representatives of tho taxpayers alone had the privilege to pass appropriation bills and to regulate the expenditure of public moneys Therefore, it was his duty definitely to inform bon members that fcho rights of tlio House had been infringed by the amendments made in the bill by the other branch o( the Legislature. Mr FOX moved that the Colonial Treasurer, Mr Stafford, and himself should be appointed managers to confer with tho Legislative Council on the subject of the amendments made. Motion agreed to. WELLINGTON DEBTS BILL. Mr YOGEL, to meet objections urged by several members on the previous evening, moved the insertion of the following new clause, the substance of which is as follows : — " Whenever it shall be established to tho satisfaction of the Governor that the province of Wellington has incurred a liability to tho extent of [amount to be stated by Governor] and that the revenue of such province is insufficient to meet the same, and that the debts shall remain undischarged for a period of throe months, then power shall be given to tho Governor to cause a rute to bo levied for the purpose of raising a sufficient sum to discharge such liabilities. (The clause then provided for the appointment of a commissioner, who shall, upon theamount of the liability being ascertained, fix the amount to be raised by such rite ) Mr ROLLESTON" was not at all satisfied with the clause, and proposed the substitution of the following clause: — "From and after the passing of this act no debt or liability incurred, cr which may hereafter bo incurred by tho Superintendent or Provincial Council on behalf of the province o^ Wellington, under any power for authority in either of them vested, shall be or become a liability or charge against the General Government or colony of New Zealand." Mr FITZHERBERT was quite willing to accept the new clause proposed by Mr Rolleston, and Mr Yogel then withdrew his clause. Mr CREIQHTON looked upon tho passing of the clause ns shuting the door after tho steed was stolen. Mr SWANSON thought the clause would bo utterly useless. The Wellington members would only have to come to the House next your to get ib repealed. Ho looked upon it as utterly useless. The Wellington members had fought their bill well ; it had been a very uphill game all through, and they had fought it well. He did not doubt that they would have sufficient influence in the next session to remove anything that was objectionable to them in the bill. The bill having been reported to the House, Mr Yogel moved fiat it be read a third time. At the same time he must make an acknowledgment to (he member for Avon for the asistance he had rendered in proposing a clause which had obviated much difficulty. Mr MURRAY must record his protest against the passing of such a bill. There was not the slightest doubt that the colony would have to make a present to the province of the amounts ostensibly being lent under the bill. There were certain little items in connection with a Building Society.aniouutingto £35,000, which had been wiped out by the colony in favor of tho province. There were also some matters connected with Maori moneys which had been wiped out by the colony, and he had not tho slightest doubt they would have to do the same with this debt. As to the security offered he considered it utterly inadequate. They had the Colonial Treasurer's own estimate in his contract with tho Messrs Brogdon that the lands of the colony were worth only 3a per acre, and that would be nothing like sufficient to cover this debt. Mr SHEPHERD also wished to record his protest against this bill. He distinctly stated that it had been carried through the House by the votes of the Otago members. Mr Rejnoldß had voted against the bill in its early stage, and had turned round and "ratted," in addition to obtaining the votes of other members of the House under false pretences. Mr Peacock had distinctly told the House that he voted for the second reading on account of representations made by Mr Reynolds. That fact had altered a sufllcieut number of votes to have rejected the bill. The motion for the third reading was then put and a division culled for, which resulted hs follows : — Ayes, 27 ; noes, 20. The bill was was then read a third time, and passed. IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WOEKS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the calling of the order of the day for going into committee on this bill , Mr GISBORNE stated that as it was likely a discussion would be raised by many members as to the constitution of the Board of Works, and by others as to the desirability of having a board at all, he would suggest that tho discussion on that particular point should be taken in the House, so as to facilitate tho progress of the bill. With that view he would move " That tho Board should consist of such ministers or officers of the Government as tho Governor might appoint, and that none of its membersshould be selected from persons outside the Government," Of course the Board would be an unpaid one, and would be constituted on a basis similar to that of the Victorian Board. He wished it to be understood that he merely made this motion to raise a discussion on the constitution of the board, in order that the Government might have an opportunity to modify tho bill in accordance with tho wishes of the House. Many objections were made, and the House then went into committee. Mr GIBBORNE said he thought it advisable that the board should consist of the Minister of Public Works and such other Government officers as the Governor may appoint from time to time, such officers not being members of the House. Mr REID objected to the formation of a board composed of Government officers. The aot gave power to the board to take lands for railways and for settlement, and conferred other large powers which he did not care to see placed in the hands of ft board composed of Government officials. He would prefer that there should be no board at all, but that the House should retain the power to say what and how new works were to be oarried on, holding the Ministry responsible for the carrying out of such works. Mr BELL generally advocated the adoption of a similar course, pointing out that the Provincial Governments should be used as boards of advice. The hon member pointed out the great advantages which had been gained by leaving such mattors to the Provincial Governments of Canterbury and Otago. Above all, he hopod tho proposal in the bill would not be sanctioned, but that all the clauses relating to the formation of a board Bhould bo struck out. Mr M'LEOD concurred witli the views of tho two previous speakers. Mr GISBORNE requested to be allowed to withdraw his amendment. Mr MACANDREW proposed that the Chairman Bhould report progress, with the view of enabling the Government to reconstruct the bill, so as to provide that the functions should be performed by the Minister of Public Works, Mr E. RICHARDSON did not approve of the board as proposed in the bill, but be had been on the look out for an opportunity to make a suggestion, which ho would now make. Let tho board be constituted how it might, either under the direction of the Minister of Public Works or of one of his secretaries, but let there be a recognised board, who should receive all tenders, and that their proceedings should be conducted with open doora, so that all tenderers might be present when the ten-

ders were opened. He made tho suggestion because he hud seen the want of such a provision both in Victoria and Now Zealand. He held that it was desirable that the greatest possible publicity should be given to matters of tho kind. If the clsmse in the bill relating to tho constitution of tho board were struck out, he hoped to see a clause introduced enacting that the opening of tenders should be done in the presence of the public. Mr GISBORNE promised that such a provision should be made either by regulation or by being inserted in tho bill. Mr REYNOLDS objected to the proposed board although he thought a board should be appointed whose duty should he to collect information with reference to the formation of railways throughout She whole colony, so as to decide where it would be advisable to construct railways. Another thing for the board to do, would be to ascertain what quantity of available land there was in the districts through which tho railways would puss, and also the traffic that was likely to accrue. These matters should be reported to the Government for the purpose of being laid before the Assembly. He would not object to the employment of a competent engineer at :i Bnlury of £2,000, to gather such information and muke a report. Tho clause constituting the Board of Works was then put to the Committee and struck out on the voices. Progress was then reported, and leave given to sit next day, 80 as to give the Government an opportunity of coming down with fresh proposals on the subject. BAILWAYB BILL. The House went into committee on this bill. On the proposal of the 7th clause, which provided that the construction of the railways specified in the first eobedule, other than those in the provinces of Auckland, Wellington, and Hawke's Bay, should, as between the colony and the province, be churged against the land fund of each province, Mr I Kelly proposed that the province of Taranaki should be included in the operation of the clause. Reasons Vere urged against this, Mr M'LEAN stating that it would be injudicious to attempt tho carrying on immediately of a line on which the fee Bimple to the land had not been acquired, through the existence of native difficulties. In answer to further inquiries Mr M'Lean stated that the line to Masterton did not puss through any land that had been leased to Europeans previous to the sale to the Government by the natives of the Seventy-Mile Bush. Mr CREIGHTON said he had been informed that all the flat and open land had been leased by European gentlemen within the last two years, and that the only land left to the Government to take the line through was heavily-timbered country. He would propose, if such were the case, that tho land should be taken by tho Government without any compensation whatever to those gentlemen. Mr M'LEAN said he had discovered bince he made his reply, that the line did go through land leased by Europeans, but ho know that none would be more willing than those gentlemen who had leased the land to give up their rights. Mr REYNOLDS would like to know whether the land recently purchased by the Government ran through any portion of lands leased by Europeans ? Mr M'LEAN said he could answer that at once, by saying that the land recently pur chased did nob run through the land of any leaseholders. Tho motion of Mr Kelly was put and carried, and tho province of Taranaki included in the clause. Mr REID objected to the exceptional treatment of the provinces. He would like to see the clauee omitted altogether. By the act of 1867, the land revenue was made provincial revenue, and these railway charges Bhould be charged generally against the provinces. Mr GI3BORNE wou'd be willing to insert the words " and ordinary revenue of such province" The Government merely desired that they should take the land revenue of the Middle Island ns security, and in the North Island they would take not only the security of special bloek3 of land but they would Becure the cost on the ordinary revenue. Mr REYNOLDS said it was useless for the Government to atttempt to throw dust in the eyes of the committee. The House knew well enough what the security to be offered by the North Island woa. They would get security to the amount of about £18,000 for the construction of railways to the extent of a million. They were now goisg to be offered aB security land which the General Government had taken as security before, and had handed back to a province, and had been taken as security ugain for debts alroady incurred. He moved that clause 7 be expunged. The motion was rejected. Mr GISBORNE moved the insertion of a new clause providing for the purchase of ai-y railway from the contractor within a period of twenly years, and in the event of the contractor and the Government not agreeing, the amounts to be settled by arbitration, an amount to be deducted for wear and tear. Another provision for the construction of branch railways in Oant9rbury was proposed by the same gentleman. The first clause was agreed to, and the second postponed. Mr CREIGHTON proposed the insertion of a clause providing that compensation should not be given for any lands taken for the purpose of constructing railways from European lessees of native land. Hia intention was that I the native owner should be compensated, but the price of land should not be increased by the claims of lessees. He knew as a positive fact that many persons had been going about leasing land with the intention of claiming compensation from the Government. Mr M'LEAN did not object to the clause. He believed Buch a practice had been resorted to in the Auckland province, but he was confident it had not been done either in the pro vinces of Wellington or of Hawke's Bey. KARAITIANA agreed that whatever compensation was to be given should belong to the native owners. The lessee was merely the leseoe of tho grass. This opinion was supported by Pabata. Mr OREIGHTON withdrew his clause on condition that provision should be made in another bill to be brought forward. Motion withdrawn. Mr BATHGATE proposed a new clause providing that in the event of any railway yielding a surplus over all charges connected with its working, suoh surplus should be carried to the credit of the province in which such railways were situated. The olause was withdrawn on condition that provision should be made in the Immigration and Public Works Bill. Mr REYNOLDS proposed the adjournment of the debate. He regretted he had to observe that on tho schedule of railways to be had constructed, Middle Island interests had been neglected. This he attributed to the fact that there was not on the Ministerial benches any representative of the Middle Island. He regretted that the House was about to separate without the Government having seen the nocessity of taking a representative of the Middle Island into their ranks. Mr MACANDREW said the hon member seemed to bo laboring under a_Wairarapafobia. He seemed to have a dread of that railway being undertaken. He (Mr Macandrew) firmly believed that that line would be one of the most profitable in the whole colony, combining as it would the most important part of the North Island with the port. Mr REID did not agree with Mr Reynolds in bis regrets as to tho want of a Middle Island representative in the Ministry. No Middle Island member would sit with the present occupants of the Ministerial benohos. Seats had been offered and refused by Middle Island members. Mr SHEPHERD objected to the passing of all the railways in the schedule. There was one, from Wellington to Masterton, which was not required, nor would it be of cny ueo.

It was all very well for the Government to put that line on the schedule as a reward for the steady support of the Wellington members, but he should oppose it, and divide the House upon it. Mr GISBORNB said the hon member was most unfortunate in singling out thut line. It was placed in the schedule last session against the wishes of the Government, who voted against it. Mr FOX repeated the assertion already made that the Masterton lino would open up one of the richest parts of the whole colony, and could not but be a most profitable line. Mr J. C. BROWN related on incident to prove how futile it was to expect the House to consent to the construction of any lineß other than those specified in the schedule of the Government bill. He spoke to a then member of the Government (Mr Boll) when that gentlemaii was in Dunedin on the matter of a railway for a district in Otago, and he was told by him that it was out of the ques (ion for him to think of getting a line for his district unless he supported the Government. Mr BELL emphatically denied that he had f ver made such a statement. Mr Pkacock and Mr Mkryyn opposed the vote for tho Masterton line. Mr ROLLEsTON also opposed the vote. He considered it opposed to the principles of the Government a? onunciated in the various statements to the House by them. Mr GISBORNE denied that there was anything opposed to the Government policy in it at all. Besides, ample provision was made for tho repayment of the outl»y, provision being made by which tho private property of every person in the province should be rated to cover the whole of the cost. The item was carried on a division, the numbers being — Ayes, 35 ; noes, 17. The item for tho tramway between the Manawatu and Wnngnnui was also carried. The line between Napier and Ruataniwha was agreed to. These were the only items in the schedule affteting the province of Wei* ■ lington. The House was st'll discussing the other lines in the schedule when our reporter left at 2 30 a.m.