THE BROGDEN CONTRACTS.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3326, 23 October 1871, Page 2

THE BROGDEN CONTRACTS.

A " working man's" meeting on tho subject of fclio Brogden contracts was held on Saturday evening at the Odd Fellows' Hall. The meeting had been called for balf-past seven, and by that hour a small assemblage straggling about the corner of Grey street was tho only evidence of the counterpart of the great " movement" in tho cities of the South on tho same subject. Tho doora having been openod, and thoao who had been patiently waiting having seated themselves, their number appeared to have increased to about two hundred. It was evident, however, that tho early hour of meeting had something to do with the sparse attendance, for rapidly the numbers increased in the sp ice of a quarter of an hour until the hall had become crowded, and by eight o'clock, was densely packed, the gallery being crowded with occupants in a standing position, tho " gangway" of the body of the hall and the whole of the baok portion being similarly filled. The delay in commencing the proceedings created great impatience, which found expression in loud uproar, until Mr Williams, one of tho promoters stepped forward and announced that the early hour fixed for the meeting was rather a mistake, and ho hoped tho meeting vrould have a little \ forbearance until those who were to address the meeting had arrived A few members of the House of Representatives were present, distributed'among tho audience, the only members j j on the platform being Messrs Pearce, Hunter, and Wakefleld, all of whom wore received with great cheering on taking their seats. The anxiety on the part of the meeting having be- ! ! come very groat, Mr Carter proposed that Mr Tolley should take the chair. No other candidate being proposod for so responsible a position, Mr Tolley approaohed from the body of the hall and was duly installed. The Chairman: — Gentlemen, I must claim your indulgence during tho conduct of the proceedings over which you have placed me as Chairman this evening. I have no knowledge of the arrangements of tho committee who have called the meeting beyond tho mere purport announced in the advertisement; therefore, with your kind assistance T hope to see the proceedings of the meeting conducted in an amicable and orderly manner. The subject for consideration is the Brogden contracts, a matter of which I myself am quite ignorant, knowing nothing more than what has appeared in the newspapers, and that, as you are awaro is very limited, and does not give much information on the subject, and I hope everyone who wishes to address the meeting will, in explaining these contracts, have a fair and impartial hearing. There are very few of us who are not anxious for information on the subject. I do, and for that reason I do not wish to bo premature in condemning a thing before I understand it, and that is the case, I apprehend, with a great number vrho have attended here this evening. I will now read tho advertisement convening the meeting : — "The Bbogkden Railway Conteacts. The working men and other inhabitants of Wellington are invited to attend a public meeting to be held at the Odd Fellows' Hall on Saturday evening, 21st inst., at half-past seven o'clock, to take into consideration the contract entered into by the Colonial Treasurer with Me3srs Brogden & Son for the construction of railways in the colony, and to show how it will affect the interests of the tradesmen and working population of the colony, if the proposed arrangements are carried out by the Government. — John A. Williams, H. B. Cookburn, H. Carter, S. Snider, D. Hall, John Twist, Henry Trueman." As this is a working man's meeting, of course tho resolutions will be moved by working men. I, therefore, call upon Mr Williams to address you. Mr Williams : Brother workmen — Wo are met here to-night to ventilate and diecus3 the Brogden contracts, as the Government call them, or rather as they should be properly called, the contemplated contracts, whioh have caused so much excitement throughout tbo colony. I need not say that wo hare met to adopt the course decided upon in the petition which is laid before the meeting, but I wish to explain to the meeting whatever knowledge I possess on tha matter of railway contracts, and of what wo are capablo of doing in the colony. I suppose tho people of the colony do not wish to see more money paid for this work than should be paid for it, and with that view I wish to give tho result of my experience in tho matter. As regards the rolling stock, I venture to say that we can manufacture it for half the money it will cost to import it from England. Then there is this consideration : that the imported material is JiaWe to damage. I know that the rolling stook imported to Victoria was so much damaged that ifc cost as much to repair it as it would to manufacture it in the colony. That was also the case at Obnstchurcb, whero the repairs were done in such a way as to prove that they could as well have manufactured the plant &a repair it, and our manufacturing works iv Wellington are quite capablo of doing the same thing. With reference to the other parts of the work, I do not see any necessity for going all the way to England to give a foreign contraotor a fat railway contract at tho expense of tho colony i of New Zealand. There are plenty of large railway contractors in New Zealand, gentle- | men with £20,000, £30,000, or £40,000 at their oommand, quite willing and able to undertake tho construction of any railways required in JNow Zealand. By recent papers I huve received by the Claud Hamilton I see there are four railways to be made in Victoria, tenders for one of whioh are advertised for in the Wellington Independent, and there are more to follow. There would be uo difficulty in getting a sufficient number of men to work our railways, as I see by the papers that there has lately been a ! meeting of the unemp'oyed in Melbourne, at I which a Mr Hart stated that the number of unemployed was estimated at four thousand. He strongly opposed any further immigration as long as work was scarco, and objected to the system of sub-contracts. Hero we have railway contracts to be oarried out, and I have no doubt they could be bettor carried on under a system of tender, that is, by small sections. By such a system the whole of the New Zealand public will be benefited by the saving of a considerable sum of. money. We all know that there is to be a Boavd of Works, and if the amount of the contracts is to be left to their valuation, wo can imagine what that will be, for it must not be forgotten that they are to be appointed by the Government, and can fix any valuation they like as the amount of the contract, andthon tho contractor is to receive 5£ per cent, on his outlay; rather a large margin, I think the meeting will admit. The objection of tho Government, that the splitting up of tho contracts would give too much work, is one that could easily be got ovor by the appointment of an extra staff of clerks. I advocate the letting of the works to tho small contractors of the country, because it is far better to feed a number of loan swine than one fat sow. I shall now propose the first resolution: — "That the present Government gained the support of tho peoplo at the last general elections from the belief that the construction of large public works would havo the effeofc of relieving the colony from its present distress ; but that, in tho opinion of this meeting, tho letting of public works to English contractors by private agreement is calculated to produce the contrary effect." Mr Millwabd seconded the resolution. A Voice : What about the contraots themselves ? Wo havo had nothing of them put before us. Tlie CirAIEMAN : I told the meeting I was not in a position to say anything about them myself. I understood tho committee would bo prepared to explain thoir nature. Mr Wakefield, M.H.R., who was received by the meeting with loud and prolonged appluuso, then said: Mr Chairman and brother workmen of New Zealand— l say of Naw Zealand, baoauso I draw no distinction of provinces ; " New Zealand," I bavo always -aid, is written on my hoart. (Cheers.) lam neither a Wellington man, a Canterbury man,

— , •> an Auckland man, nor an Otngo mnn. I hope you will give me credit for having been earnest in my endeavors, on behalf of New Zealund as a whole, to obtain the prosperity and union of the people. At the same time, many of you know that 1 havp fought the fight of the working men of Wellington against influences ca!« culated to deteriorate their position, and to put them under the screw of hostile classes. (Loud cheers.) I come bnrk to you after a long absence with sufficient credentials from the working men of Canterbury as chiefly their representative, for under the ballot- they put me into a seat in Parliament; without the ballot I knew I should not have had a shadow of a chance. (Cheers.) I have been sent with the workmen's credentials to this part of New Zealand ; it was they alone who sent me, because I had the great monied party, the influential party— the quality— agairißt me. (Great cheering.) And ypfc, through speaking quietly under the Godley Statue in Ohristchurch, without a chairman, in the open air, to an orderly and zenlous meeting, every individual of which was inquiring for the truth, and for that truth which, is the interest of the greatest number, the rosult was that poor Teddy Wakefield, whom ! you meet here, was electecVto^ represent a constituency of the city of Christchurch. t (Tremendous cheering.) And while on thismatter I must fcell you that is not quite foreign to the subject before you tJiLws^lking, because this question of contract9_tnj«re in, I England between ambassadors whoappoint themselves, and contractors who agree in some I lawyer's private room as to how muoh they Bhall take from New Zealand, and in what way they shall compete to take away the employment of the people of the colony, is ft. question whioh concerns you all. It is mostimportaut and relevant to the question thtit you should understand the position you are in with regard to the power you will exercise at all future elections in comparison to the past ones. You have only had a taste of the ballot — a more sip of it; but J know that in my district the effect of the ballot has been that those whose means were not very good f and who were heretofore afraid to put themselves on the roll, or to exercise the power of voting, through the fear of losing their situations if they should tote adversely to the interests of the upper classes, or of having a bill brought down upon them by the highly polished, electro-plated gentlemen with whom they might have a small business transaction, havo now put themselves on the roll in shoals j so that under tho ballot they are now prepared for any future emergency. Hew you in this part of New Zealand hare done in, that jrespecfc I do nofc know because I have boon away. (Growing confusion.) I hope gentlemen who have anything to say on the subject will come up here and say it« I am sure they won't harm me or themselves. When I go into politics I go in with the ekitt of a hippopotamus. (Signs of opposition,) If gentlemen of the opposition object to wlmfe I am saying let them come forward ; I don't speak twaddle. (A voioe : "Why don't you speak to the question ? " Uproar.) I am speaking to the question ; I am speaking to the first part of the resolution, "That the present Government gained the support of tliß people at the last general elections from th© . belief that the construction of large public works would have the effect, of relieving the colony from its present distress." I am, therefore, speaking of the last general eleo tions, and how they were influenced. If the gentleman who spoke understands the question at all he will understand what I am saying. I have purposely taken the trouble to understand the contracts myself because at the last general election there was a prevailing feeling that there wore to be millions spent, and that the money would be spent among the people of tho colony without tho intervention of. some rich man who comes to the country only to make his wealth tenfold at the expense of the colony or its inhabitants. The second part of the resolution sajs, " But that in the) opinion of this meeting the letting of public works to English contractors by private agreement; ia calculated to produce the contrary effect." This does not require me to go into the details of the contract, but to confine myself to saying, as I said before, that I altogether object to ambassadors appointed by themsolve9 going home and Baying what terms the colony shall pay for its railways. Ido not care what the terms are. I Bay tbe prin» ciple of having the question settled in the private room of a lawyer in London is eminently dangerous to every interest, not only to the working men as a class, but to everybody who has property in New Zealand, and does not mean to hand it over to leeches to suck and go away again. What I say should be dono is that the contracts should be open to public tender; open not exclusively to English firms, to Australian firms, or fco New Zealand firms, but to all alike, both oolonial and English. Any and every sort of contractor you like, but let it be by public competition, subject to no suspicion. (Loud and continued applause.) I do not require to go up to tbe Assembly to talk like this. Every man knows that it is better to go into competition in matters of this kind. You know then that each competitor has made a calculation ; you take it for granted that they are men who all know what they are about, and that whatever price the colony pays is a fair one — at least that it was tho fairest that could be got by the fairest known means. The people know that that is the best means, and I hop© they will never give up the right to insist upon such a method of dealing with large contracts, whatever may be the inducements that-are hold out to them. Inducements there will be, because in an Assembly higher than this there aro plenty of inducements held out, and there will bo great disappointment, not to those who have had tba courage to oppose the Government schemes, but out of about between twenty and thirty place and profit soekers of some kind or other, there will be perhaps six or seven satisfied, and about twenty growling with discontentment. I shall mention no names, but you must all see how easy it ia to keep office if the power of appropriating it is "judiciously" exorcised. Gentlemen, I can imagine what I should do, looking to the main chauco and to myself, not oaring very much about New Zealand, or whether I made my money in the United States or Russia. I shouldaay to myself, "New Zealand is a country that has got money now, and if T can make the people believe that I am the best man for Prime Minister, why should I not make the best of my circumstances." And if ihe " Advertiser" will write up ray policy, and say that it must be the best — because that is a respectable paper, so benevolent and so delicate in handling people's character (laughter), a paper so much revered in the person and in the oharaoter of its proprietor (laughter,) so careful in expressions towards all public characters, whethor they bo new comers to him, or whethor they bo old chums like myself, who knows how to ward off his abuse — I say if the " Advertiser" will write up my little game, and say it is the best, why surely you would not require any further assurance on the point. (Laughter.) Did any of you read the " Advertiser" this morning? I pub tho question to you, because when you see a sow with a straw in her mouth you can tell which way the wind is going to blow. The article betrayed a superior hand. It was not Bully's. (Laughter.) There was a fine Roman hand in it, and I can imagine Bome^ ouch conversation as this taking place not «C great time before that article appeared in print, M^glK Mr So-and-so, I have retained you beoaus^*believe you are tbe most eminent counsellor in New Zealand. I wish first to ascertain whetbor the first contract is valid. Then, if that is shaken, it will be much better to say that they must take the last one. Is there a newspaper I can buy up while I am here ? " To which the other replies, " Yes, there is one that oan be bought for a mere eong. Before tho session came on that paper was very hard up, and I think the ownors are quite willing to acknowledge the crumpling of a • bank note. Will you do it yourself, or shall I do it ?" " Oh, no, thank you, my brother is a member of Parliament at home, and it wouldn't do j be knows bow those things are

managed. Will £50 ov £100 do ?" " Oh, ! bless you, yes ; they will jump at £50, and turn the very reverse to-morrow for the same amount." (Laughter.) Well, the article of that morning was written to decry the movement by abusing those who had called this meeting fcigether. It wishes the meeting to advocate the cause of the English firm, and not to go in for small contractors, who would broak down and sacrifice the workmen's wages. It ■wishes to urge tho meeting to forsake the small contractors, and go iv for the new broom, because it is hung with gold pieces. It presumes from the names attached to the advertisement that it is intended to adopt resulutions similar to those passed in Christchurch and Dunedin. Why, it did not want a prophet to see that. Tho workmen of Wellington have called the meeting in the same spirit in which the men of Dunedin and Ohriatchurch did, and.if the " big bugs" wish to keep aloof, let them. The " big bugs" kept aloof at Christchurcb, but they afterwards got the " big bugs" to consent to attend the meeting. I would make you believe that tho petitions at Dunadin and Christchurch were signed by loafers. Why, Mr Rolleston presented a petition to the House a few days ago signed by-%1105 persons resident in Christchurch against these contracts, and there is hardly n signature of the 1105 the owner of "which I am not acquainted with, and I can aaß^jo you that I never saw a petition more signed, and more thoroughly reprefSiiing the respectability of all classes. (Louu applause.) lam only doing my duty to my constituents, as well as to you, if, when they hold a meeting and send a large petition up to the House, they send also up to me and aßk r»e to support its prayer. Of course I agreo with it, and how can I better Bupporfc its pvayer than by appealing to tho same class of people in this city. (Loud applause.) Whether they be divided by Cook ■trait or by mountains from mo, I uaunot forget that " a man's a man for a' that." Just to dhow you what paid advocacy can do let me point out to you an example. There is in tho General Assembly a good deal of what I call "Nero fiddiing while Rome is in flames." The Government ha^e a tremendous majoriiy. Every night Ministers taunt the Opposition with wasting time. And what are they doing now ? The Government and their supporters are busily knocking up the benchos in preparation for the great event of Monday night, •when there i 8 to be unlimited indulgence in the enjoyments of, ah, the light fantastic toe. (Suiting tho action tollio word Mr Wakefield polked. Cries of, "Bravo, old fellow," and "Encore.") Now, is it right that they Bhould knock up the benches in the middle of the Beasion ? Why, the jjlace was so disturbed it took mo half an hour to find the petition presenred by Mr Rolleston, and these are the signatures appended to it — tho people who have been called loafers. I Gnd the signature of the present Mayor of Christchurch (Mr Jameson), the two past Mayors (Messrs John Anderson and William Wilson), Mr Sawtell, one of the principal merchants j Mr George Goold, another eminent man who has raised himself by his own exertions from the position of a railway guard to his present standing ; Mr Inglis, the representative of the great firm of Matheson & Co, of London. I do not know how the representative of the same firm iuthis city, Mr Pearco, intends to vote in the matter, but there is the fact that Mr Inglis condemns these contracts. Mr E. C .J. Stevens, late a member of the House of Representatives, and a string of others of equal standing. These are the mon whom the "Advertiser" has lumped together as loafers. (Laughter.) I have not brought the contract with me ; I lent my copy a day or two ago to theworkmen'o committee. (A Voice : "Hero's a copy.") I don't wuut it, thank you ; although I do not fail to recognise a Christchurch face in the person who made the offer. (Hear, hear.) It would take too long to read through and discuss here the memoranda I hav<> made upon it. It is unnecessary that I should detain you with any further remarks, further than to accord my support to the resolution which say 3 that the letting of the contracts to English contractors under the present arrangement is likely to produce bad results. I am not going to allow the papprs to pay that "he made a wenry, dreary apeech." I beg to conclude by telling you that I have very good hopes, within a very few days, of establishing a really public paper tbat shall, without fear or favor, represent the interests of the people, not merely of Wellington, but of the people throughout New Zealand ; which shall oppose tho land monopolists, whether they be pastoral tenants of the Crown or pastoral tenants of die Maoris. I shall establish a public newspaper, whether in Parliament or out of Parliament times ; a newspaper which will make your feelings known if you have any confidence in myself, and which shall be one ■worthy of New Zealand and of the class it shall represent. I cordially support tho resolution. There are resolutions to come on with which it would not be my duty to meddle. I have a few further remarks to make. Some of you know the man called James M'Laren, " the Wauganui Loafer." The "Advertiser" has descended to select some of our oldest associates in the work of subduing the wilderness, and mixed them up with the " Wanganui Loiifer, " implying that the "Wanganui Loafer" wus along with them in opposing the Broaden contracts. Curiously enough, the part tho "Wanganui Loafer" took was to support the Brogden contracts. I have with me a copy of the " Otago Daily Times," which shows how much right the " Advertiser" had to associuto those who are conducting this meeting with the individual named. Tho resolution M'Laren proposed at the Dunedin meeting waß .• — " That Mr Brogden deserves the support of the whole of the colony for constructing railways under the Public Works Act." Of that you can now judge for yourselves, I have to thank you for your attention. (Cheers.) Mr Pbabce, M.H.R., who came forward after loud and repeated cnlls, faid: Gentlemen, the promoters of this meeting, who did me the honor to ask it c to be present, stated that I should not be asked to take any part ia the proceedings. I accepted the invitation with pleasure, and came to the meeting, not to express my own viows, but to hear those of others who form a section of my constituents. During the session, the proper place to express my views is on the floor of the House, and by the expression of my viewß there, and by my votes, you will know what I think in the matter. At the same time I thank you for calling me forward. The Chaieman having inquired whether any other person wished to address the meeting upon tho resolution, ; A DIKTY-LOOKING INDIVIDUAL, in a state of intoxication, created a great deal of amusement by scrambling out from amongst the crowd at tho back of the Hall and getting on to tho atago. On his arrival there, having made several attempts to articulate, The Chaieman eaid ho could not permit the meeting to be interrupted by tho presence ofadrunkon man on the stage, whereupon the person referred to took a seat, amidst great laughter, very close to, and parallel with the Chairman. The resolution was then put and carried unanimously, not an opposing hand being held up. Mr Caktes, one of the promoters, then stepped forward and said : Fellow-workmen, — I have to bespeak your indulgence whilst I endeavor to make a few observations on the resolution which has been plaeod in my hands. I need not tell you that although I have resided in Wellington for five or six years, I have never addressed a public meeting and will not, probably, be able to do justice to a subject of such importance; but I hope you will be BO far indulgent as tooverlook any shortcomings on my part and awnrd to me the attention which the importance of the subject demands. The resolution which I have to propose is : — "That, in the opinion of this meeting, all contrucls for railways to be constructed in New Zealand, by means of borrowed money, should be open to public tender in small sections, and the work paid for in cash only." I will point

out to the meeting the many important reasons why this course should be adopted. To secure economy it is necessary. New Zealand is peculiarly situated. It is a large and straggling country ; and these railways will have to pass over a very great number of miles. Supposing the railways are let to one contractor there must be a man to attend in each different place, and there must be a larger a-nount of waste under the supervision of managers than if the different sections were underthe maniigoinont of the contractors themselves The whole of our experience shows that the smaller the contracts the better the competition, and the public get the benefit of that competition. There have been many very large contracts given out in New Zealand, and in no instance has there been a failure in the carrying out of those contracts. On the other hand, there have been large contractors in Europe, and with them large failures ; instance the case of Betts, l'eto, and Co. Had these contracts boon let in the usual way ; had Mr Brogden tendered here and fuccceded, there would not have been the slightest objection to his doing the work. But. it is not so ; the colonial contractor is wholly abandoned white Mr Brogden is treated with every consideration; every freedom is given to him in order that he should be allowed to carry on this work. There is no price specified ; that is to be specified by the Board of Works. History will "repeat itself, and this is one of those instances in which the great wharf job in Melbourne will be repeated. There, a largo contract was taken for the construction of a wharf. Tho amount of the contract was £90,000, and the Government appointed a board to examine the tenders and determine which should be accepted. They did detertermine whioh should be accepted, and ultimatelj tho board retired with £6000 each in their carpet-bags, with which they built themselves very handsome mansions in the suburbs of the city. The historical repetition, I hare no doubt, will take place here if these contracts are gono on with, but with this difference : that instead of the palatial mansions being erected in New Zealand the money will be taken home to be spent in England, and the railways will have to be mado anew ten or j twelve years after their construction. But there is another aspect in which this contract will affect us. Most of you are aware that in the country districts there are men well qualified to do the work and who are at present unable to find employment. What will be the result if this contraot is entered into? Mr Brogden is to receive large sums of money to execute work that you are willing to do at the present moment. And is it desir able that borrowed money should be employed for such a purpose ? In addition to those objectionable features, men will be imported who will not bo able to adapt themselves to all tho varied circumstances of the colony, but will be able only to make railways, and when there are no railways to make then they must migrate to some other country to follow the same occupation. (Applause ) | But there is yet something more. In Now Zealand wo enjoy, after many struggles to obtain it, the eight hours' system, oue of the graodast systems known to the world. (Cheers.) New Zealand stands pro- eminent in having established such a system. In England the workmen have been struggling to obtain the boon of working nine hours a day, but supposing the labor market became burdened heve, is it not likely that Mr Brogden would insist that the workmen should work ten hours a day instead of eight ? You will observe that if tho whole of the labor for tho construction of the railways is to be imported into tho country it argues that you must find occupation elsewhere, and that, as j a necessary consequence, there will be vast competition, and ' another result will bo brought about, namely, that there will be a very material reduction in the value of wages. Are you prepared to accept such a reduction j of wages ? You have, no doubt, been look- j ing forward to those great works, believing that they would improve your condition ; that you would be able to settle down comfortably after years of industry, when old ago had crept upon you. Besides, it must be evident that the interest on this money will have to be paid, and it will be those who will be left in the colony who will have to pay it. The country will be burdened to the extent of £40,000, and there must be more people to make up the deficienoy that must then nriae. But I think tho most objectionable feature is tho fact that there is no price specified. In all other contraces tho contractors are bound down to a price. In other countries it is specified that the contractors shall name the amount of their tender and all amounts for extras, and as a necessary consequence there is something substantial to depend on. It must be evident that under such a contract as Mr Brogden's there will most likely be a great number of disputes, and disputes aro very costly ; the process of arbitration is most expensive. I see nothing in the contract to prevent Mr Brogden from importing a largo amount of Coolie or Chinese labor, and I would like to know whether you are prepared for that ? Such a contingency must have a deterrent effect on the progress of the country, and nullify much of the benefit that we have expected to be realised from these large works. There is one very important point in connection with this question of local contractors. I may state that although we are opposed for calling this meeting, we have very strong facts in support of the course we have adopted. Do the Government imagine that the people have, an opinion on these matters ? They simply know that their case is a bad one, and then they commence to abuse us. I see by tho papers that the coat of che Clutha line, constructed by local contractors, is now ascertained to be £250,000. Some time ago an attempt was made to induce sjme English contractors to tako up the construction of the line, and the lowest price offered by them showed that by accepting the looal tender a clear saving of £350,000 was effected on this contract alone. (Loud applause.) Whatever may bo the opinion of the writers in our papers, tho Government of Victoria have not tho same opinion. I see by the Independent that tenders are invited for the construction of a lino sixty-five miles in length in Victoria. Why not have called for tenders here for the construction of our own railways, to be done in sections of 10, 20, 30, or even 50 miles, as might be deemed most advisable ? Why not call for tenders here tho same as for other works ? If this had been done I have no hesitation in saying that the line to Maatorton could have been done by local contractors, and not have cost nearly so much as they would by being done by English contractors. (Cheers.) Then, our own workmen would be employed, and there would bo smiling faces in place of a gloomy condition of affairs. (Cheers.) There is another aspect to this affair, and a very important ono. We have in New Zealand a class of artisans of tho h ghost order. There are men as capable of constructing the whole of the plant of the New Zeuland railways, as can possibly be brought from England. There is abundance of tho finest timber, and why we should import the material from England I cannot conceive. I am perfectly satisfied that the whole of tho plant for the New Zealand railways could be manufactured iv the country, as cheaply and better than could be imported from Eugland. In Victoria they have determined not only to manufacture their carriages, but have commenced to construct the locomotives, and if the Government hud adopted that course instead of employing the people of England they would have taken a much wiser course than the ono they have dtcided on. The Government of Victoria have begun to recognise that it is politic and advantageous to use up the raw products they have within themselves, to be used and reueed, so that all classes shall benefit by it — tho highest and tho lowest, the meanest and the richest — and as a necessary consequence tho country is bound to be prosperous. I am quite sure that when the railways are started the next thing you will have to do will bo not only to bring out the artisans, but the Government will be compelled to erect workshops ; it

then follows, and I think you will bo with me in this matter, that if foreign labor is to be introduced to execute the neeessury works and repairs, everything they could produce could bo produced as cheaply by those already in the country. (Cheers.) If tho Government has the interest of tho country at heart they will recognise this fact. (Cheers ) I will conclude by moving th-j resolution.

Mr Hayward then addressed tho meeting. Ho said— l thoroughly agree with all tint hns been said. lam well acquainted with Auckland and the Thames, and there are as good men there for navvy work as could be found. Why should we introduce mon of that clnss when we have the class of men in New Zealand, hundreds of them, capable of performing all the work that will be required. We have timber fit for sleepers that will last any length of time, and engineers capable of carrying on the works. Take the instance of the reclaimed land. No English firm could have made a better job of that. Then there is the raising of the Taranaki. There was no reason for going out of tho country to pet those jobs done. We have tho Taranaki sand, and we hear of the manufacture of steel rails in England, and why should rails made from st.oel sand be inferior to Brogden's iron rails. We find on the whole all these things to be rather superior. But there will bo another difficulty. It is not the mere making of tho rails. Who is to keep them in repair when Mr Brogden is gone ? The same skill will be required to keep them in repair as to make them. 7"hen we do not require locomotives to weigh thirty or forty tons to go up to Wild Duckland. Look at the boiler manufactured by Mr Seager tho other day. Could anything better bo mude in England? The very fact that we could get such a boiler made amongst us, shows that we have men here equal to the making of railway stock. That shows that wo are advancing. There is machinery in Mills' and Seager's equal to anything we would be likely to require. I remember speaking to Sir George Grey in 1854, about undertaking some great work, and he said " you may rely upon it, when the time comes to require these things, there Tvill be found men to do it us soon as ever they find tho thing will pay ;" but-, ho said, "it ia always a bad plan for the Government to go into these things." I have worked many years on a railway at home, and I know that you can mi>ke railways at any price you like, and there aro men here who can make them quite as good as Brogden's men can. When tho wharf ivas constructed, we had colonials showing tho English men things they did not know. The Government will put down railways at about £4000 a mile, but why should we not havo railways at £2000, that will last quite as long as we want them. And if we aro to have railways let us have them don 6 by those men who are walking about idle, who will then be able to educate their children, then we would bo doing what they are neglecting. The arts and sciences are going back to bnrbarism. Why must wo go home for everything? I think we should do these contracts for this reason : that we sha'l be educating the sons of onr colonists, who will be able soon to do these things, and we shall have our own engineers and fcicntific men among our own people. When these nuvvies come here they will serve their own ends and then bolt off and leave their wives and families to be maintained by the colony. What we require are men who will become bonafide settlors ; men who como out with the intention of settling and seeing tho railway works out. I really hope the whole matter will be considered by the Government, and tVat they will see that it is very necessary that the contracts should be let in small sections. Then they will find that all tho difficulties will vanish. If Now Zealand is to go ahead how is it to be done ? By depending on foreign support ? No. Those men who had come out to New Zealand Bhowed that they had pluck and that they wore progressive men, men who will go forward in the world, in the construction of the railways the material required should be procured on the spot, and then the money would be kept in circulation amongst us, whereas tho aliip that brings out tho railway plant will take back the money for it. If we had attention paid to the local industries and kept the money invested among us we should have 1,500 men going out on Saturday night putting about £3,000 iv circulation, calculating that on the average they spent. £2 a week. But if tho money is sent away tho seed dies, and there is an end of it. I second tho resolution.

Mr Tbueman : The resolution I havo to propose is rather turning the scale a little. It is, in faot, to ask tbe Government not to ratify the contract entered into by Mr Togel and Mi' Brogden. There might be much soid on the subject, but a little will suffice on this occasion. There is little doubt that what has been said will meet with the approval of the working men of New Zealand. The resolution I have to propose is : — " That this meeting records its decided opinion that the General Assembly ought not to raiify, as printed and submitted to it, either of the contracts which were entered into by the Colonial Troasurer during his visit to England with Messrs. Brogden & Co., for the construction of railways in New Zealand." Mr. Williams and myself called upon Mr Pearce and Mr Hunter to request them to be present, and I am glad to see them hero so that they may know what the feeling is upon the matter. With reference to the contract, no doubt Mr Brogden and Mr Yogel agreed in some snug parlor in London that they should make it very comfortable for one another. No doubt it was arranged thafc Mr. Vogol should got the Parliament to allow the 5J- per cnnt. for every pound Bpent on the railways, Mr Brogdon doing the handsome afterwards by tipping him out of the proceeds. You quite understand that Mr Vogol is a bird of passnge. He can soon take wing und fly away to the land of his nativity. Nothing easier than to tip Mr Yogel with a nice little fifty thousand pounds. The thing reminds me of the story of Paganini. When ho had made a very handsome fortune ho went back to his native country, built a mansion, and termed it the " Englishman's Folly ;" and if Mr Yogel can carry out this contract he will get as much aB will enable him to build a " New Zealand Folly." What the meeting has to do now is to sign the petition asking the G-eneral Assembly not to ratify the contract. Every working man Bhould come forward and sign ; by doing so you will strengthen the hands of the representatives of the people. Thoro is littlo time to bo lost, as it must be presented on Tuesday. I havo much pleasure in proposing the resolution placed in my hands. Mr Millwahd seconded the resolution, and it was carried. He also proposed the next resolution : — " That the petition now read bo adopted by this meeting, circulated for signature by the people, and presented to the House of Representatives, and that copies of the same and of these resolutions be forwarded to each member of the General Assembly." Petition. — To the Honorable the Speaker und Members of tho House of Representatives, in Parliament assembled. Tho humble petition of the undersigned working men, mechanics, and other inhabitants of Wellington, respectfully sheweth : — That your petitioners, having read and duly considered tho proposals of the Hon the Colonial Treasurer to enter into large contracts with Messrs Brogden & Co, for the construction of railways in the colony, are of opinion that tho proposed arrangements, if carried out, would bo most unfair and projudicial to the interests of the working men and other inhabitants of the colony. That your petitioners view with alarm the proposal to pledge the revenues of the colony in guaranteeing interest on euch expenditure, and believe that if sections of tho various line? vrero competed for by tender amongat both colonial and foreign contractors, and paid for in cash, that plan would bo found both tho most economical and the most advantageous to the interests of tho colony and the people. Your petitioners, therefore, moat respectfully pray your honorable Houbo not to confirm any contracts for public works to bo ontered upon under the Public Works and Immigration Act, except euck as shall be open to public

I tender and general competition in the colony. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray." I find those who have preceded me have* said so much that there is little left for me to say, but I cannot help making a few remarks on the English railways. I havo worked on the line betwoen Manchester and Liverpool. From what I have seen of the mechanics both in Australia and New Zeuland there are none superior, and it would be very hard that those who had lived twenty or thirty years should not have the privilege of working on theße railways. With regard to the contracts, I am not going to say anything disrespectful of either Mr Yogel or Mr Brogden. I give Mr Brogden credit for one thing; if he had the contract offered to him he had a ri^ht to accept it. If the contractova of this plaoo were to got an equal share of the contracts, I say .still there is another local industry that should be supported, I kr.ow a man in Wellington who has made every preparation for the manufacture of railway carriages, with the idea that ho would have some ! portion of the work to be gone on with. I \ will not mention his name, but ho is present amongst you. These carriages, lam confident, could be made aa well as in the English market. There are men in this lir.e here who could not bo excelled. I hope the workmen of Wellington will help to carry out the object of the meeting, by signing the petition. Mr Helteb : I second the resolution with pleasure. This ia what is called outside pressure, but there are men in the House who are supposed te represent the people, and I cannot understand how it is that such a tiling us a public meeting is necessary on such a subject. I should like to ask Mr Wakefield whether we are living under representative government at all. Last year there werp powers asked to borrow money, and a certain gentleman went to England, and out of that vieit arose these contracts. I do not know that any of the members of the Mouse knew that he had authority to make any such contracts as these under discussion. It ia certainly a remarkable fact that he should go to England without any of those seventy members knowing what he was going to do. There was one thing certain, that he udded much to the expense of the country by "ueopins; the business of the House much behind. I nsk is that right? I say it is an insult, not only to us but. to our representatives. I heard Mr Stafford say in the Hoii9e that, he knew nothing about the "contracts," and under such circumstances it is a disgrace to cay that w»live under responsible government. I will tell you why we are not represented ; it is becuuso there are a uumber of members who go to the House, not to represent their constituents, but to make what they can out of their positions. They do not go there for the good of the colony or of the people. Ido not think the meeting of to-night wi'l be any good, because we cannot get these members to change their idfas ; Mr Yogel is too cunning for them, and he will carry anything he likes, but still I wish to second the resolution. Mr Hunter, M.H.R.: Reference has been made to me during the evening. I simply have to say to you that the contract has yet to be ratified by the representatives of the people. Mr Caeter announced that as there would be some expense attached to the carrying out of the proceedings, it would be necessary that those present should subscribe to the extent of sixpence each. The petition would have to bo placed in the shops for signature, and there would be come expense attached to their collection. The petition was numerously signed before the hall was cleared, and at about ten o'clock the meeting broke up.