HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3301, 13 September 1871, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, September 12. Tho Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. NELSON GAS BILL. This bill was read asecond time and ordered to be committed next day. PETITIONS. Mi' Studholrue presented a petition with reference to tho railway in the neighborhood of Woodend, Canterbury. Mr Karslake presented a similar petition from tho Malvern district in the same province Mr Haughton presented a petition from John Morgan, of Wanganui j also one from certain "Roman Catholic inhabitants of Charleston and Brighton, West Coast, with reference to education. Mr Macandrew presented a petition from certain persoiiß in Otogo on land compensation. Mr Harrison presented a petition from licensed victuallers on tho West Const. Mr Hunter presented a petition from 1600 inhabitants of Wellington. Mr Calder presented a petition from certain Roman Catholics with reference to education, as also did Mr White, Mr O'Conor, Mr Shepherd, and Mr Hull from tho Roman Catholics of their respective districts. NEW MEMBER. Mr Rolleston, member for Avon, took tho oath and his seat. PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE. Mr T. KELLY brought up tho report of the Petitions Committee on tho petition of John Kerr, of Waimea, Nelson, praying for compensation in consequence of errors in the quantity of land contained in his Crown grant ; tho committee repovtod that tho compensation offered to the petitioner by the Provincial Council was sufficient to satisfy his claims. Also, the report of the committee on the petition of John Dick, of Dunedin, newspaper proprietor, complaining that undue preference has been given to certain other newspapers in the matter o£ Q-overnment advertisements, and praying for redress ; tho committee reported that they did not consider it desirable to recommend any interference in tho acts of the Executive. Also, the report of the committee on the petition of Alexander Svend Drever, of Nelson, for compensation for loss sustained by him in consequence of a Ciown. Grant, the issue of which was recommended by Public Petitions Committee of last session, being still withheld from him ; the committee reported that the petitioner was entitled to the award of last session, but to nothing fureher. Also, the report of tho committee upon the petition of 57 Roman Catholic inhabitants of Oamaru, in favor of a denominational system of education j tho committee reported that as the subject matter of the petition was under the consideration of the House, they could make no recommeudation. PAPERS. Mr GISBORNE laid upon the table a number of papers and returns. THE MOTTJEKA ELECTION CASE, Mr BRANDON applied for leave to adjourn the proceedings in this inquiry, for the purpose of enabling the sitting member to procure witnesses. Leave was given to tho committee to adjourn until the 18th instant. VACCINATION BILL. The report on this bill was agreed to, and it was read a third time and passed. JUSTICES PROTECTION ACT AMENDMENT BILL The report of a committee of the whole on this bill was adopted, and it was read a third time and passed. CONVICTS FORFEITURES BILL. This bill was committed, reported to the House without amendment, read a third time and passed. MARRIED "WOMEN'S PROPERTY BILL. Mr FOX, in moving the second reading of this bill, said the subject was ono that had created considerable interest in various parts of the world of late years, and had formed the subject of legislation in that House on two or three occasions. In 1860 an Act was passed by the General Assembly of New Zealand providing for tho cases of women who were deserted by their husbands, and provision was made which gave protection to the earnings of the wife from that time forth, bo that her husband could not leave her, and then come back and rob her of whatever property Bhe had acquired in his absence. Last year a draft bill was brought before tho House for the purpose of giving independent rights to single women, which proved, on examination, to be an exceedingly one-sided proposal. While it gave the wife very large independent rights, it gave the husband nothing whatever to compensate for it. The bill was referred to a committee of both Houses, and came out in a form which gave married women something like their proper right, and was doubtless, as far as it went, an improvement on the existing law. At the same time, while discussing the matter in this Colony, it was being discussed in tho Imperial Parliament, and the bill that was there introduced containod many points which our bill contained, but instead of dealing only with the circumstances of a woman who had been deserted by her husband, it imposed obligations upon her. In the event of her becoming posßeesed of property, it compelled her, in oaso of sickness, to maintain him, while we got no return for the privilege. This bill provided that bank stock, shares, &c, and savings' bank money, Bhould be secured to the wife, though of course if she wished to hand over any such property to her husband — if she found that he was a man who would turn it to account for the benefit of both — she could do so j and on the other hand, there were provisions in the bill which prevented her investing the " pudding money" in such a way. Whatever money she had of her own, she was at liberty to do as she liked with, but she was not to take away her husband's money and put it in the bank. Having conferred these rights, she would have to defend any action that might be brought against her in her own name. Then came provisions for protecting the husband. When a man married he was liable, on tho marriage day, to bo sued for debts contracted by bis wife, of which he could not possibly know anything whatever, and thus the marriage day was often rendered a very miserable one. In such cases the wife was still to be sued. By other acts she could throw her husband over, if she thought fit, but now she could not do so, because in the event of her husband or her children becoming sick she wa6 bound to bear her part in support of the domestic establishment, and prevent their becoming a burden on tho parish. There were various other provisions, some of which were not in tho English act. Mr HALL had not had the bill long in his possession, and was not prepared to discusß its merits. He would like to know whether the bill went the length of conferring upon married women separate rights to their property, both real and personal. (Mr Fox : Yes.) He thought the House was taken at a disadvantage in being asked to discuss a bill like this without having had full opportunity of looking through its contents. There being such a great amount of business on tho order paper he did not wish to offer any objection to getting through the business, but he hoped the hon. the Premier would not offer any objection to the discussion of tho bill at a future stage. Mr FOX euid he did not intend to hurry the bill through. Mr SHEPHERD thought tho bill should not bo passed without receiving the greatest consideration from the House. No doubt there were muny good points in it, but he thought it should be delayed, because he suw a possibility of creditors being defrauded under some of its provisions. Ho proposed the adjournment of the debate, Mr FOX hoped the hon. gentleman would allow tho bill to proteed. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed that dtiy week. MESSAGE FROM TEE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The SPEAKER announced that be had received a message from tho Legislative Council, transmitting the Prisoners Maintenance Expenses Bill, with nn amendment. The

amendment was ordered to be considered tomorrow. Also, tho Punedin and Port Chalmers Bill, with cerlain amendments. Tho amendments were ordered to be considered next day. Also, the Coasting Trade Regulations Bill, without nny amendment. HIGHWAY BOARDS BILL. Mr GISBORNE moved the second reading of this bill, and explained its scope in detail. He said it was altogether a bill to put highway boards in a more effective and better position than they were in at present. TAIAROA requested that the consideration of the matter might be allowed to stand over. It bore on a matter ou which he had already spoken when he asked for the appointment of a council for carrying out such matters as these among the Maoris, and which bad been agreed to. The laws had not as yet been made known to tho Maoris. When tho missionaries came to New Zealand, they began to teach the Maoris, but at present they were left in a stato between ignorance and knowledge. The old chiefs did not know of the existence of all these laws regarding land, and it should bo left to tho young men who were growing up to decide upon theßO matters. In i the treaty of Waitangi, in consideration of the natives giving up their entire sovereignty, the Queen preserved to them their rights over their land, their fisheries, and their forests, and if it were urged that this bill should pass as it was he would urge that the treaty of Waitangi bo laid on tho tablo of tho House, that members might know what its contents were. He would like to Bee this measure referred to the council he had moved for, in order that it might prevent any trouble arising. Mr CARRINGTON thought where Crown Grants were issued to Maoris they should pay rates the same as Europeans. They used the roads as much as tho Europeans, and he would put it to hon members to say whether it was right that they should use those roads without paying for them. Mr BUNNS thought the Maoris were dealt with very leniently under the act, which in many sections specially exempted them from its operation. The natives paid nothing at all unless, as provided by the fifth cluuso, the Government of tbo day certified that any particular native land was capable of paying taxation. He thought tho bill waß a right step for doing away with the provincial councils. He would like to see a clause introduced in the bill enabling tho boards to raise money upon special rates for tho carrying out of great works, such as erecting bridges, &c. He believed the measure was one of those sound, practical measures which would do much towards tho settlementand development of the country. WI PARATA said the existing stato of the laws with reference to the Maoris should not bo disturbed. He thought the laws should be framed in as easy a manner as possible for tho Maoris for the next few years. Mr KELLY thought tho Government should see that the existing boards were so constituted as to be in a position to properly carry out the provisions of this bill. He thought, for tho purposes of the bill, that instead of the powers being conferred on small boards several should be united. He had no doubt the act would [be boneficial, and he looked upon it as a step in the right direction. With regard to borrowing money, that, he thought, was a power that should be conferred on large boards. The rating of the Maoris would be found to be a very difficult matter, and he did not see his way to rating them at all. Mr HALL did not blame the Government for not having brought in what had been called a general measure, because he knew what had been the fate of previous general measures ; at the same time he would have preferred that tho bill should bo more comprehensive. Still tho time would come when the House would have to lay down a law for tho construction of these boards throughout the colony. There should be two classes of boards — ono for managing matters in small districts, and the other a general board, having power to borrow for large works. He was sorry that the Government had not aHSwered the question of the Provincial Government of Canterbury, asking them to define the proper functions of Provincial Councils ; then they would have known in which direction they could legislate, and in which they could not. It was highly unde.irable and improper that half the legislat'en of the country should be done by one body and half by another. The bill was one that he, to a'certain extent, approved of. The Maori members had for a long time requested to be placed on an equality with the Europeans, but they must be told that that right brought with it a share of their responsibilities. The bill was one in tho principle of which he agreed, though he had objections to it. Mr FITZ HERBERT entirely agreed with the hon member who had just sat down, although he did not agree with one provision in the bill which was thatunfenced lands belonging to Maoris Bhould not be taxed. That he alto gether objected to ; part of the hardship of the case was that the land was not fenced. Ho hoped no law would be passed which allowed any large holder of land to be exempt from payment of taxes. Mr CURTIS agreed with the hon member for the Heatheote in his regret that the Government had not brought in a more comprehensive measure. He would point out that the fifth part of the bill was too cumbrous for the possible requirements of the boards. It provided that in onses of invalidity of elections the members of the board might go to the Supreme Court, and apply for a rule visi t which, after following the forms of the Court, would result in an expense of about £100. That was a trouble and expense they were not likely to go to, and he hoped this part of the bill would be simplified. Mr COLLINS would support the bill, which hethougbt|lollowed in the steps of one that was introduced into the House three years ago, and which the Premier did not entirely agree with at that time. Mr FOX explained that he had taken overy pains to secure the passing of tho bill referred to by the hon member, and moreover that he (Mr Collins) himself was at that time a strong supporter of Government, and it followed that tho bill was brought into the House with his entire concurrence and assent, so that if he (Mr Fox) had changed his opinions so also had tho hon member. Mr THOMSON said tho bill met all objections to the present system but one — it did not givo the power of borrowing. He should like to see that power conferred on road boards in proportion to their size. KATENE said his objection to the bill was that supposing a man had only two acres of land, and those two acres were taken from him for rates, vthat means would ho have of living. Ho thought tho laws should be framed in an easy manner for the Maoris, because they were not entirely clear about their meaning. He believed tho bill to be a just one, but let them first put down present evils among the Maoris before they were called upon to pay equal taxes with the Europeans. At preßont they paid taxes by an offering of their labor (in a manner described by the hon member). They did their best to pay taxes ; they did not wish to avoid them. He would like to see these matters peaceably Bettlod. The Maori members came to the House for the purpose of expressing their ideas on such matters, and he hoped their objections would be heard with consideration. Mr BUCK LAND thought tho measure was not sufficiently comprehensive. Tho bill thrown out a few years ago was a good one, but contained tho vicious principle of anticipating probable requirements. If they could get a copy of the Adelaide Act bearing on the subject it would considerably simplify the mutter. Mr SHEPHERD thought tho measure such a ono as was much required throughout tho colony. There was no doubt that if the Government had not already abolished provincial institutions they would soon do so, and it was their duty to bring in some measuro to substitute them. If Mr Macandrew's resolutions were not oarried he felt conviuood that they

would have to introduce some measure in the direction of shire councils. He would support the bill, because he looked upon it as a straw to show which way tho wind was blowing— tho direction in which legislature was required in Now Zealand. Mr M'LEOD agreed with all thinkers on the Bubject that the inhabitants of rural districts were the best judges of what was re* quired in their neighborhood, and in this light he looked upon the bill aa a good measure. i Tho hon member gave a recital of the systems of Government in Canada and many of the American states. He thought the bad results apprehended by the natives from the working of the bill did not exist at oil. The Ngapuhis, and other numerous tribes, would have a considerable voice in these road boards, merely on account of their numbers, if far no other reason, and ho would do his beat to advise those natives to accept the act, although ho did not suppose that the Government would ever make any attempt to inflict an unjust tax upon them. He would reiternte his opinion that all taxation should come through the Customs. In Nova Scotia the revenue waß so collected ; one-third being appropriated for roads, one- third for education, and so on. With regard to what had been said about the Maoris not paying for road rates he thought the charge was an unjust ono. The Ngapulus paid between forty and fifty thousand pounds per annum into the revenue, and what did they get in return — absolutely next to nothing. The amount tho district north of Auckland got was— for Mongonui, £27, and for tho Bay of Islands nothing at all, while an amount of £700 was paid to one board in Auckland — the Parnell board. The hon member explained the disadvantage under which the Bay of Islands suffered, and claimed that the General Goverment should give them more consideration than they had received from the Provincial Government ; in fact, he hoped to see the Provincial Governments abolished altogether. He thought the bill a very good substitute for them, and would do all he could to pass it through the House. Mr G-ILLIES thought the honorable member was like the bird that fouled its own nest. The hon member was a member of the Provincial Council himself when the votes wore apportioned. (Mr M'Leod : 1 always opposed them.) He would support the bill, not because it was perfect, but because he believed it was a good one. He cautioned the hon member, Mr Thomson, not to support the bill uuder the impression that it conferred powers on the Provincial Council : on the contrary, it took away certain of their powers. With regard to the natives in the Bay of Islands, the hon member for that district should have told the House that they moat willingly paid their share towards the making of roads ; he had never had any difficulty in getting them to do that. The further discussion of the motion was then deferred. EXPLANATION. Mr Yogel, before entering upon the financial statement, offered a further explanation in reference to the question asked a few days previously by the hon member for Collingwood, referring to matters contained in the Controller's report. Mr COLLINS said if the answer given by the Colonial Treasurer was unsatisfactory, this further explanation was still more so. It confirmed him in his belief that the money advanced by the Comptroller had been improperly applied — applied in a manner that could not be properly characterised in parliamentary language. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Mr YOG-EL then moved the House into Committee of Supply, and having delivered tho financial statement (a summary of which will be found elsewhere), he moved that the chairman should &i that stage report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Mr STAFFORD pointed out that the hon gentleman had pursued a very unusual courae in resuming his seat without proposing some resolution to the House. A discussion upon Parliamentary form ensued, and ultimately, in order to place a motion before the House, Mr YOGEL proposed tho first item on the estimates — £2550 for public domains and buildings. Mr HALL rose to ask the hon. gentleman for some information upon a point which he had not made quite clear, and which was one of considerable importance to the provinces. He had announced that changes in the pDy ! ments to provinces were to be made. What | date did the Government propose that these j changes should commence from ? Mr YOG-EL : The whole of the financial propositions will date from 30th June last. The question that the Chairman do report progress was then put and agreed to. ! Mr YOGEL then announced that the Go- \ vornine&t would be prepared to take the dis- { cuesion on the statement on Tuesday next. In consequence of the pressure on our space, \ the remainder of our report is held over. j The House adjourned at a quarter past twelve o'clock. ■