PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3233, 23 June 1871, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, "/UNE 22. The SPEAKER took the chair at 3 o'clock. PETITION. Mr PEARCE presented a land petition from Jame3 Brady, formerly of H.Ms. 65th Regiment. Received and read. FAPEE3. Memoranda of the railway works recommended to the General Government for construction were laid upon the table and ordered to be printed. NOTICES OP MOTION. Several notices of motion were made. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. Mr W. MILNE called the attention of the Counoil to an article which appeared in a paper published that morning commenting upon and laying down what should be the dutios of a member of the Council under certain circumstances. The article in question, in referring to some remarks made by the hon member on theconsus returns, said that he ought to be prepared either to retract what he had said, or go further, in order to justify I himself in making such a statement. To act upon such advice as that, would simply be to make a man a common informer. While he felfc much obliged to the editor of the newspaper for giving him an importance be was not aware he possessed, he still thought that a little more discretion should be exercised by members of the press in commenting upou detached words dropped in the heat of debate, No doubt these words attributed to him might be perfectly true j but still he had guarded himself in saying what he did about the census returns — that it was doubtless due to a "clerical error." The hon. gentleman then recapitulated that portion of the debate referred to, in the course of which he referred to that particular item which had amused him, and called forth the remarks which had been commented upon by the newspaper, viz., that one item in agricultural statistics for the district of Rnngitikoi put down the area of wheat under cultivation at 17l£, while the estimated produce in bushels was stated to be 16,470 ; of course the estimate was so extravagant, that it could only be attributed to a clerical mistake. The hon. member also pointed out o'hor mistakes of a like nature which had since come under his observation ; and availed himself of that opportunity of calling attention to something not creditable to the province. With regard, however, to the real matter before the Council, he wished to say that while ho would be very sorry to see members of the Council too ready to seek shelter on every little pretext under these privileges, and also sorry to wound the feelings of anyone in this matter, he yet thought that members of the press should more fully consider the position of members of tho Council, and display a nicer discrimination in their comments on the proceodings for the future. The SPEAKER pointed out to the hon member that unless he intended to follow his speech by tabling &l motion of some sort he was entirely out of order. After a few observations of an unimportant character from several members, the matter dropped. UNSOLD PORTIONS OF RECLAIMED LAND. Mr WATT moved — " For a return of the quantity of the unsold portion of the reclaimed land, and the value of the sume at the present valuation." The necessary return had been already laid on the table. COMPENSATION CLAIM 3. In committee, Mr PEARCE mov<jd— " That a respectful address bo presented to his Honor the Superintendent to place on the estimates the sum of £90, for the purchase of land, in order to satisfy the claims of Robert Bright, of Charles Jeffcott, and of William Crozier, in terms of the report of the Public Petitions Committee, presented to this Counoil 2lst June, 1871." Tho Commissioners had gone carefully into the allegations, and discovered that they were correct;. The whole of them were merely matters of oversight on the part of the petitioners. Mr LUDLAM thought these reports should be printed, unless they were very long. At present he was in some doubt as to the exaot grounds on which tho petitioners based their claims. Agreed to. MR IRWIN'S CLAIM. Mr PEARCE moved—" That a respectful address be presented to his- Honor the Superintendent, toplace on theEstimatosthesum of fifry pounds to be paid to Frederick Henry Irwin, in accordance with the recommendation of the Public Petition's Interim Report, No. 2." The substance of the claim was briefly this : — Mr Irwin went to the Land office, and paid in a deposit of £50 for pastoral land in the Waitotara. The surveys, however, had^ not been completed up till 1870. In the meantime, the purchaser found out that the so-called pasture land was nothing but a sand desert. He then went to the Land Commissioner, who gave a promise to refund the money. Did the committee not think that some such promise had been made, they could not have made tho recommendation on behalf of petitioner. Mr LUDLAM took occasion to complain that the report had not been printed, co as to enable members to give the matters contained therein careful consideration. It was not right to make these things a mere matter of form. They should be discussed by the Council before being reccomrciended tohia Honor. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR differed from the hon. member. As it was a money vote, it was well understood that it would be put on the Order Paper for discussion by the Council. Mr PEAROE said that in this case tho Committee had been particularly guarded, as they were anxious that it should not be taken as a precedent. Their course was dictated by the fact that they did not wish to see a promise made by an officer of the Government repudiated. The report was ordered to be received tomorrow. UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY (in the absence of the Provincial Treasurer) moved that a sum 2, £95 bo placed upon the estimates to cover certain unauthorised expenditure. Agreed to. THE HIGHWAYS BILL. Was made an order of the day for tomorrow. The Council then went into Committee on THE TOLL GATES BILL. The first two clauses were read and passed. On the third clause, enabling the Superintendent to erect toll gates and fix tolls, • Mr LUDLAM drew attention to the one great failure of the Government in past times with regard to tho bridges over our rivers. Through a temporary impecuniosity they had always neglected to put in their stitch in time. It seemed that past experiences pointed to the necessity for setting by a certain fund from the proceeds in order to keep the bridges in repair. After some remarks from Mr Masters supporting the clause, Tho PROVINCIAL SECRETARY showed that a clause in tho bill enabled the Superintendent to contract with any person to construct or repair a bridge, the contractor having a lien upon the tolls for payment. This led to a discussion on roads and bridges generally, and the proper system of maintaining them, whether by contract or otherwise. The clause passed. Olauso 4 (limiting tolls) was passed. On clause 5 (exemption from tolls) Mr Hutohison called attention to the fact that elsewhere funeral corteges wore exempt, Ministers, too, sometimes had occasion to travel a good deah Mr MORGAN thought members of road boards should alao be exempt while on business of tho board. It was pointed out that in order to meet the case, wardens must either receive an allowance for their services, or that the board should }

vote a sum of money to cover expense in that way. The olauae was passed as road. The remaining clauses of the bill were rapidly passed, without amendment. After come discussion on the schedules of the bill, they were amended and passed. THE LICENSING- AMENDMENT BILL was read a second time, advanced through all its remaining stages, and passed. On the Oounoil resuming they went into committee on THE WELLINGTON EDUCATION BILL. Clauses one to fifteen inclusive were passed as read. Clause 16 (appointment of secretary and treasurer) vraß postponed. On olauae 17, defining the general powers and duties of the board, Mr Hutchison moved as an amendment, that the board should have the right of appointing the teachers, but not the power of removing them. The object of the hon member was that the appointment of a teacher should rest in the hands of a local committee and that, in default of misconduct or incompetence, the appointment should be permanent. Several hon members, however, deprecated the idea of the hon member reopening hie original- objection to the bill, and on which he had been defeated on the second reading. It was pointed out that he was endeavoring to introduce something utterly antagonistic to the very spirit of the bill, the chief object of the Government being to raise the status of the schoolmaster by preventing the constant interference of local committees in their supervising power over masters. Mr MORGAN supported the views of Mr Hutchison. He wanted to see some connecting link between the central board and the parents. Me LUDLAM also regretted the stand I taken by the Q-overnment on the bill, as boards, like other people, were fallible, and there was no medium between the Govern* | ment and the people, unless an individual | ratepayer choso to act as suoh in the event oi any complaint or dissatisfaction. The hon. member referred the committee to the satisfactory working of the Nelson system. Bather than see the bill destroyed altogether, he would support the bill, as he had done I the previous sitting ; but he would earnestly ask the Government to allow something to be introduced into the bill, which would succeed in interesting the people without necessarily destroying the fundamental principie of the bill. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY pointed out that these objections were raised on an erroneous conception j because, as it was, the board was practically a local committee. Were they to adopt the amendment of the hon. member for Wanganui, and allow a local committed for every school, there would be no end to the complaints and suggestions, and all other kinds of jarring influences militating against the efficient working of the educational system as a whole. The hon. member for the ffutt pointed to the satisfactory working of the Nelson system. He could tull tho hon. member that on drawing up the bill, the Government had not closed their eyes to the different systems existing in. the colony; and they had, furthermore, the very best authority for saying that the one blot upon the Nelson system was just that which the hon. member for the Hutt wished them to introduce. The hon. member said theInspector did not say so in his report ; but there might be many reasons to prevent an. Inspector from speaking the plain truth on such a matter. Hon. members ought to know the injurious result which had constantly flowed from tho thousand and one little interferences to which teachers had been subjected at the hands of theselocal boards. If the Government conceded the request, they might" also sweep away the central board altogether, for virtually the local board could neutralise any action taken by the central board, who were as much re« presents tiyes of the people as local boards could bo. The board might appoint a teacher or remove one, but the committee could defy them, and refuse to accept the decision of the board in either case, and say — We will have this teacher, or we won't have him, whatever you may nay to the contrary. He deprecated the idea of battling over a principle on which they had already suffered a defeat, as wasshown by tho Council sanctioning the second reading of the bill. Mr LUDLAM again urged upon the Government to reconsider their decision iv rejecting the assistance of local committees. Mr HUTCHISON denied that any squabbles which might 'have ensued overtook theform of lowering the status of the teachers. The issue was on a totally different point. The real fact of the matter was that they wished to deprive the people of their natural right, in favor of a board in Wellington, of which the strings would bo pulled by two or three gentlemen, and perhaps put Mr Bowden as inspector. It was utterly wrong to deprive the people of that in which they above alt others were most deeply interested. For, hia * part, he would not allow a man to teach his children of whom he did not approve. After some remarks from Mr Deansfield on the breach of etiquette committed by Mr Hutchison in referring by name to a person outside the Council, a division was called- for, and tho Council divided with the following result : — For the amendment — 3 : Messrs Hutchison > Morgan and A. Milne. Against— l 3: Messrs Pharozyn, Andrews, Dranßfield, Crawford, Bunny, Pearce, Anderson, Masters, Thynne, Fagan, Taylor, and Ludlam, Renall. On the original clause being put, Mr Andrews moved as a proviso to be added to the clause, — " That, in places situated more than five miles from any sohoo], the board, on the petition of parents and guardians of not less than twenty children of from five to fifteen years of ago, shall have the power of appointing itinerant] teachers for the purpose of educating such children." He had seen this system work very beneficially in Norway, a number of emigrants from which country we now had as settlers in this colony. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he would accept the amendment of the hon member so far that he would postpone the clause for further consideration, in order to provide for the maintenance of travelling teachers. On clause 21, providing for the payment of the capitation fee, the date of payment waa fixed for the first day of September. Mr BRANDON asked that the clause be postponed, in order to consider whether some allowance should not be made iv districts where natural difficulties prevented the regular attendance of children. He knew of several roads in his district where the distance from the school, while being considerably less than the three miles specified in the bill, which entitled people to exemption, was yet abso« lutoly impassable nine months out of the twelve. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY thought the amount of hardship likely to arise from such causes was so small, while the various advantages of the bill, both directly and indirectly, were so great that they felt they were entitled to accept the amendment of the hon member. Besides, as he was informed that the Porirua district was increasing so rapidly, the probability was that before any great diffioulty of that kind arose, the establishment of a school would remove it. Mr LUDLAM thought the suggestion of tho hon member for certain exemptions would, if granted, open the door lo suoh a number of_ applications of that nature from such avmetjttp of natural difficulties that it would bo impost sible for any board to entertain them. The amendment of Mr Brandon. was then pub, and the Council divided, the result being — For the amend aienr, 3 j against, 12. Messrs Brandon, Thynne, and Andrews were the only hon members voting for the amendment. Mr BRANDON then moved another amendment. He did not think ho would stand quito alone on the division, as he believed there was at least one other member in the , Council who had some idea of justice. The ,

amendment to be inserted in the clause was : — " Nor for any child who has for the beforementioned period received competent instruction at home." The division was— For, 4 ; against, 11. Progress was then reported, the amendment; being made an order of the day for tomorrow. Tho Council adjourned till to-morrow, at 3 p.m.