PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3144, 10 March 1871, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, MAECH 9. The Spbakbb took the Chair at 7 p.m. The minutes of the previous sitting were read and confirmed. PETITIONS. Mr HUTCHISON presented a petition from Philip Davy, of Rangitikei, for a grant of land ; also, a petition from a number of set* tiers on the No. 2 line of road. Petitions re* ceired and read. A petition was presented by Mr Watt on behalf of the Wanganui branch of the Ancient Order of Odd Fellows for a grant of land also, a petition of a similar nature from Gh Driver, an old Boldier who had served in New Zealand. Eeceived, read, and ordered to be printed. Mr ANDREW presented a similar petitionfrom one Richard Young, late of H.M. 49t* Regiment, Received, read, and ordered to be printed. NOTICES OP MOTION. Mr PHARAZYN asked for leave to move, without notice, that his Honor the Superintendent be asked to send in his resignation at once. Mr BORLASE objected. Mr HUTCHISON gave notico of motion that the petition of Philip Davy bo referred to a committee. DISTBICT HIGHWAYS BILL Mr THYNNE moved— That the 'order for the second reading of the Dietricfc Highways Bill on Tuesday, the 21st March, be discharged, and that the bill be ordered to bo read the second time on Friday, the 10th instant. Mr BORLASE said that such a motion as this was most unusual, especially a? the hon. member said one of the reasons why the measure was postponed was because the country members were not in their places, and that that difficulty was obviated now they wcro hero. The true reason, however, why the bill was postponed was, that the constituents of the l'On. member should be enabled to know something about the principlos of the measure. The hon. gentleman might think that he knew better than his constituents what they wanted, but the constituents might hold a different opinion. It was with this view that Mr Bunny obtained the postponement. (Mr BtrNNjr : Hear, hear.) Nothing would be gained by bringing so important a bill forward in a hurry, and before they knew what the people really wanted. Mr FAG-AN thought it highly necessary that a motion affecting country districts co materially should be discussed so soon. The step would be premature, and the origina motion ought to be sustained. Mr MOfiQ-AN was in favor of the motion, as all the information that was required could be obtained to-morrow morning, as well as in a fortnight hence. Mr BUNNY would put it to the Council, whether, if tho motion of Mr Pharazyn wore carried, which would put an instant end to the sittings of the Council, it would be advisablo to begin to discuss such an important measure at this stage. They could not get through a bill of such large scope in a few sittings. There had been too much of this hurry scurry in trying to bring the work of the session to an end in a few days. The result had always been to lead to a series of bungling. He trusted, that the hon. member's motion would not be carried. Mr PHARAZYN thought the Provincial Solicitor ought to have prepared this bill a long time ago and sent it to the country road boards in order to get their expression of opinion. It was a bill of too important a nature to attempt to pass in a hurry. Mr BRANDON felt certain, from the remarks of the last two hon. speakers, that they had not studied or understood the bill, or they would not have opposed an immediate discussion on it. He believed no objection would be urged against the bill in the country districts, as there was nothing new in its principle ; it waß merely an improvement on provisions which had been working since 1862. If hon. members would allow the bill to go through a second reading, he felt ceriain they would alter their opinion, and would not consider it such a bungle as they now thought it was. Until a second reading, they could not appoint a committee to further mould and improve the provisions of the bill ; there could be no objections to the principle. Even if the motion for the xesignation of hia Honor were carried, he saw no reason why the committee should not consider the measure ia the interregnum. Mr BORLASE wished to know if the Provincial Solicitor thought if the Superintendent resigned to-morrow, the Council could pass any measure ? Mr BRANDON : I did not gay so ; but they could collect evidence. Mr HUTCHISON said ib was well known that no measure could be brought down perfect in all its parts at first ; but he did not think a fortnight would elicit any further iuformation on the matter. It would have been perfectly proper to ask for delay if the measure was new, but it was really nothing more than the old bill, and certainly not such a one as he expected to see brought down. As the business before the Council did not seem to be very important, and the time of the country members was of some value, to postpone the discussion on this measure further, would be both an act of injustice, and very discourteous to country members. Mr WATT was at a loss to understand why the ln&t hon. speaker should wish to hurry on so important a measure before hon. mem- . bers had had time, he might say, to read it. The Hon. Mr JOHNSTON thought the bill ought to be discharged from tho Order Paper, as it was not suoh a bill as was required. He had read it, and must say, with Mr Bunny, that the bill contained all the blunders of the old measure. Until the motion of Mr Pharazyn wa« discussed tho Council did not know what position they occupied ; and he only regretted that his motion wag not allowed to be discussed •without notico. MrTHYNNE having replied, a division waa called for. The result was :— Ayes 13 ; Noes, 7. MASTERTON TBTTSTS BILL. Made an order of the day for next Tuesday., PATENT SLIP BILL. On the second reading of this bill being moved by the Peoyincial Solicitor, Mr BORLASE opposed the bill. Tho time liad gone by for any such work, and he was not going to sanction tho expenditure of Borne £40,000 of the province's funds upon a measure that would he of no earthly use to the harbor. He thought it would be bettor to give some compensation to Messrs Kennard, which waß in fairness due to them, and then have done with them altogether. Ho admitted that Messrs Kennard refused the terms offered by the province and tested their claiaa in the Court, where they got beaten. Still he would be sorry to see the proviuce do anything that would lay them open to the oharge of having cheated Messrs Kennavd, and would prefer to see them allowed some compensation for tho groat loss they had beea and are being put to j but as for going on with the work, even if Dr Featherston could make satisfactory terms, as it was not only not adapted to our present wants, but was out of our power. Mr MASTERS was of the opinion that Messrs Kennard should be allowed some com* pensation. Mr ANDERSON opposed the second reading of the bill for , several reasons. It would give too much power altogether to th c alter ego of tho Superintendent/ and, besides, that this person had already failed once in bringing this matter to a successful issue w&» the very best reason that could be adduced why he should not be entrusted with the management of this business. Ho made a fiasco of it onco, and the probability was that he would do so again. If they passed that act they would be abnegating all their powers as a Council to the Provincial Executive and the Superintendent, would hand themselves over bound hand and foot, and tho Executive would then hand themselves over in the same

manner to the Agent-General of the colony. Before the passing of Bitch an act the whole question of the patent slip should bo gone into all over again; and after satisfying themselves with the investigation, then appoint some practical man to go home and arrange for the erection of the slip. Such being his opinions he begged to move that the bill be read that day six months. Mr HUTCHISON seconded the amendment of the last speaker. He had not, however, the elightest objeotion to entrusting Dr Featherston with the fullest powers for carrying out the whole arrangement, for if he thought such a thing necessary, no better man could be found ; but they were not in a pecuniary position to do anything in the matter at all. It would be easy enough to delegate to Dr Featherstou all necessary power after he had left the colony. Mv MASTERS was sorry to see the opposition of members to the pasaing of the bill. v Mr BUNNY supported the amendment. There could be no doubt, he was certain, that if they passed the bill, and entrusted the Agent-General to carry the matter to a final issue, that the result would be that the province would have to pay 7 per cent, on the £4.0,000. Besides, there was nothing to provent Dr Featherston closing with some other person for the erection of a slip, regardless of the materials now lying on the site. Mr PEARCE regretted to hear such opinions held by the last speaker. The whole action of the Superintendent in this matter was loyal throughout. The short history of the whole of Ihp difficulties which had arisen, was that Mr Kennard was determined from the very first not to erect the slip. The position the case would assume now, would be that authority would be given to some one to enablo a coinpuuy to be formed, the plant purchased, and the slip erected ; and he felt the cost would be very considerably under £40,000. Indeed, he thought that the cost of the plant, and of erection, would not exceed £30,000, or else he would not be a shareholder in the company. He did not deny that a dock would be of great use to Wellington ; hut do not neglect the one, and let us have the other; and we might have it inside of nine months. It would be many years before the dock could be erected by us. Mr BORLASE would like to know where the company was that was going to buy the plant ; and knowing all the details which would have to be gone through in getting up a company, he would as soon believe that it could be done in nine days p.s nine months. If we had the slip, it would be found insufficient for the vessels which would visit us. Nothing but a graving-dock would do for us, and that we could have in eighteen months at Kaiwarra, if the people of Wellington chose to will it. If they waited for a patent slip until it wus erected under this bill, they would have to do without it altogether. The Hon. Mr JCHNSTON said that within the last few hours the prospectus of a company, drawn up by Messrs Kennard's attorney, had been placed in his hands, so that the assertions of Mr Penrce were very likely to be carried out if the bill were passed ; or, if not entirely completed, at least very far advanced towards it ; and the prospectus set forth that Messrs -Eennard would be paid by Bhares in the company. He would have no objection to the passing of the bill, if the Council would adhere to the principle of the bill of 1864 It was necessary that this bill should be passed, to give the Superintendent power to close the negotiations for forming the cdmpany ; and no doubt if they did so a company would be formed in a very short time after the arrival of Dr. Featherston in England. Ho could not agree with the objections of Mr Borlase that if a patent slip was neces Bary two or three years ago, it was no longer co. It was not likely that fewer ships or ehipa less injured would come to our port ; besides, the probability was that one of the first effects of the policy of the General Government last session would be to gee a constant stream of ships with immigrants coming to our port ; and it was of the highest importance that we should make in every way the reputation of the harbor the best in the colony. There was very little doubt that the dock in Dunodin would be found too small for the vessels which were about to visit us with the San Francisco mail. Mr DRANSFIELD was surprised to see the action of certain members in obstructing such a useful measure— it was like throwing awoy the last, chance. He did not wish to hurt Mr Borlase's feelings, or refer to hustings speeches, but ho was sorry to see the opposition of the hon. member to this bill. Mr ANDREW supported the amendment. Mr HALCOMBE said he and his colleague were in possession of the information given by Mr Johnston, but they were not in tho position to make it public. He was glad the matter had at last come to its present phase. He had no sympathy with Mr Kennard, as his loss had all been caused by himself, but he had great sympathy with the public of Wellington in their want of a Blip. He was rather surprised at the fiction of Mr Borlase, who had voted for the bill seven years ago, and who had actually voted for a proposition a year ago to place the whole thing in the hands of Dr Featherston, unless it was perhaps that the erection of a dock was talked about ; but having a good patent slip would pave the way for having a dock some day. At present he did not think we could obtain a dock under £60,000. He should have been glad to see a clause introduced to reduce either the interest or the capital j because, if a company took up the material, and found it a remunerative . speculation, they ought to bo satisfied with a reasonable profit. It was no argument that because we were in a temporary difficulty that therefore we should throw away every chance for an indefinite period. Mr FINNIMORE thought they would be acting against the interests of both town and country in not supporting the Government on this question. The conduct of the Government in witholding from tho Council the information which had been vouchsafed by Mr Johnston, he considered slightly reprehensible ; if they had furnished that information eooner, they would not have experienced the opposition which had been offered. Without we got the slip erected we could have no right to expect that the San Francisco steamers would be allowed to be repaired here. Mr WATT supported the bill, and was surprised at the action of his colleague in supporting tho amendment. Doubtless a dock would better Buit Wellington than a Blip, but a slip was better than nothing, and it would be a great pity to loose such a chance — the best wo ever had — to obtain for the city and province co important and much wanted public work. Mr MORGAN intended to vote for the amendment. He failed to discover why they should want to take the power from the new Superintendent, who ought to have a hand in making the contract. • Mr PHARAZYN thought that as tho information divulged during tho debate had such an effect on hon. members, as it no doubt had, it would bo only fair to adjourn the Council till to-morrow in order to give hon. members an opportunity of learning a little more about the company. Mr BORLASE said that although he had already spoken in the debate, he would like to explain that if he had known that such a Bcheme was in existence as that mentioned by Mr Johnston that Messrs Kennard had an agent here; he would have taken a differei.fr action in the matter, and he thought the action of the Government reprehensible in withholding it so long. He would second the xootion for the adjournment. Mr BUNNY also found fault with the Government, that they did not think it necessary f- to give such important information, as it would have changed the whole phase of the question. Mr THYNNE supported the motion for the adjournment. Mr HUNTER Baw no necessity for adjourning the debate, as all the members of the Council who had spoken that evening affirmed the principle of the bill. He thought they might go on with the second reading.

Mr HALOOMBE agreed with the last speaker, and hoped Mr Pharazyn would withdraw hie motion. As for the complaints against the Government for witholding the information, he might say that the company was only formed within the last two days, and the Government could not well have given it before. The Hon. Mr JOHNSTONS did not see that postponing the second reading would enable them to obtain more information than they had already. The bill had nothing to do with the company ; he had the bill in his hands seven days ago. Mr PHARAZYN withdrew his motion. j The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. SPECIAL SETTLEMENTS BILL. j This bill was made an order of the day for to-morrow. WASTE LANDS OCCUPATION HENTAL BILL. This bill was read a second time, aud ordered to be committed to-morrow, The ICouncil then adjourned till three to morrow.