HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXV, Issue 3042, 6 September 1870, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 5. Tho Speaker took the chair at 2 p.m. SUPREME COURT ACT, 1860, AMENDMENT BILL, 1870. 1 Mr FOX said ho desired to obtain leave to introduce a short bill to enable the Supremo Court to try some prisoners from Patea, which was not in the Wellington district. The Legislative Council had passed the bill on Saturday, and he 1 desired to take the first reading and pass it through nil its remaining stages. Tho Judgo had ' promised to keep the Grand Jury together, and it would be a great convenience, and avoidance of expense to tlio colony, if this bill was passed, as ' otherwise the cases would havo to bo referred to Auckland. The object of tho act was to enablo 1 the Judge to try these prisoners without this expense and inconvenience. Tho bill was read a first and second time, passed through committee, read a third time, and passed. PAPERS. Mr I'OX laid on tho table a number of papers, which wore ordered to be printed. SETTLEMENT OF THE NORTH ISLAND. Mr O'RORKE moved, — That, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that any scheme of immigration that may bo devised for the settlement of tho North Island should contain a provision for the introduction of such a body of settlers as was introduced in tho years 1847-9 into the colony by Sir George Grey, for the protection of Auckland, under the name of the " New Zealand Fenciblo Force." Ho had been a witness of a number of schemes of immigration during his residonce in tho colouy, and he thereforo hoped the Government would acquit him of uny presumption in indicating the scheme of immigration pointed out in the notice of motion. With regurd to the Pensioner settlement around Auckland, there was a iixity in it which admirably adapted it as a means of settlement ; and further, seeing the colony desired settlers trained to arms, the class of immigrants thus introduced would bo found of great benefit to the colouy. Ho thought that if the Government were to endeavor to direct a small portion of tho stream of emigration which was now flowing from tho home country to the United States it would be doing a service to tliis colony. He contended that these pensioners would not, in times of goldfiekla, etc., desert tho colony, notwithstanding tho temptations offered by other portions of tho world, and this arose from the fact that they possessed a plot of laud, and had their homes in the country. Mr WILLIAMSON seconded the motion. He was in a position to speak as to tho success of th« pensioner scheme in tho Auckland province. That force had not been established for purposes of nggressive warfare, but for tho protection of tho country, and its success was mainly owing to thij element. If tho principle had been established in the Waikato Military Settlements he believed they would have been a success. Ho trusted Government would accept the scherao of the hon. member, and they would find that these settlers would bo of more use than the flying columns which were scouring tho country. The forces would always be ready, and their officers would, under tho regulations, see that they attended on their parade ground once a week. Ho should heartily support tho resolution. Mr M'LEAN said that this force had been a very valuablo one for the defence of the frontiers of the province of Auckland, and it chiefly arose from small blocks being set apart for these people, instead of large and scattered blocks, lie believed, however, that those who were most required in the colony, were thoso who were accustomed to till tho soil, and who, although not trained in tho use of arms, would very soon become so; and thoy would, ho believod, bo found a far better class of settlers than soldiers. He thought this class of settlers was the ono to which the attention of tho Government should bo directed, and to which inducement should be offered. Ho could only say that tho subject having been brought before the Government, without any promise being given, it bhould receive the most careful consideration by them. Mr HALL said he would like to direct tho Government to the good qualities of tho Swiss, who were a hardy and frugal people, trained to the use of arms and who would bo found to be a class of persons eminently adapted to settle tho frontiers of tho colony. Mr O'KORKE having replied, the motion was put and ngreed to. PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE. Mr J. C. WILSON brought up the reports of this committee on various petitions, which wore road. MESSAGE PROM THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tho SPEAKER announced that he had received a mossnge from tho Legislative Council, stating that thoy had passod a bill entitled the Native Land Frauds Prevention Bill. Tho bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for next sitting day. EXTENSION OF CURRENCY BILLS BILL. Mr M'LEAN, for Mr Yogel, moved for leave to introduce this bill, which was ngreed to, and the second reading fixed for to-morrow. STANDING ORDERS. On tho motion of Mr Carleton, the memorandum by the Speaker on tho standing orders was ordered to be printed. A long discussion ensued on the amendment of tho standing orders. PENSIONS BILLS. Mr FOX moved for leavo to bring in a bill intituled an act to continue certain pensions now payable to Eliza Meredith, Rhoda Betty Hamlin, Daniel Monro, and Honoria Broughton ; and to provide for the payment of pensions to Henry Decry and Mary Collins : also for leave to introduce a bill to amend the Walsh and other Pension Bill. Leave given ; tho bills read a first time and the second reading fixed for next sitting day. VALIDATION BILL. Mr FOX to move for leave to bring in a bill intituled ; an act to continue in operation cerfain provincial acts and ordiauces. Leave granted ; tho bill read a first time, and the second reading fixed for next sitting day. PUBLIC WORKS AND IMMIGRATION BILL. Mr YOGEL said the amendments mado by tho Legislative Council in this bill wero of merely a technical naturo. Tho Government intended to come down next session with a proposition for tho clear definition of tho powers and functions of tho Board of Works, as it was very desirable that tho Government should know where tho responsibility in this case was to rest. Mr EDWARDS asked that the consideration of these amendments should bo postponed, in order that membors might bo prepared to speak upon them, They wero amendments on a measure which exercised a groat power for weal or woo over the destinies of the colony ; and ho thought, seeing that thoy woro only placed in tho hands of members that afternoon, that longer timo should bo given to members to consider theso amendments. Mr BUNNY coincided with tho request of the hon. mom her for Nelson. Mr EDWARDS moved tho adjournment of tho debate. Mr JOLLIE secondod tho motion. Ho thought that more time should bo allowed to hon. members to consider theoe most important amendments. Mr CARLETON said that ho did not quite understand thoso amendments. Ho wished to know whether ho was right in assuming that he had heard the Treasurer say thab there was an amend- \ ment requiring an addition to it which could only , bo made in that House. Mr YOGEL said that tho clauso re/orrod to was ono under which the confiscated lands wore to bo handed ovor to tho provinces, for railway purposes, with their liabilities, which being in tho ; light of an appropriation, it was not in tho power of tho Council to pass it. Ho hoped that hon. , members would not delay thoso measures unneces* sarily, aa there wero severul important measures to get through yet, and it was desirable that thoy , should clear away the order paper as soon as possible. Mr MAIN said he thought thero was no difficulty whatever in hon. members getting tho ■ sense of the amendment which appearod to him to bo merely formal. He thought they should at i this late period of tho session try and push forward theso measures. Mr LUDLAM said that he really did hope the i Government wonld accede to the request made by hon members for adjournment.

Mr YOG-EL said tkafc looking to the fact that that this was likely to be the last night upon which private members' business could be brought forward, ho would agree to the adjournment of the debate. The motion was then put and carried on the voices. MINING COMPANIES LIMITED LIABILITY AMENDMENT BILL. Mr FOX moved tho second reading of this bill. The motion was agreed to on the voices, and tho bill ordered to be committed to-morrow, WAIROA MILITARY SETTLERS. The resolution adopted by the committee on this Bubject was ngreed to. GEORGE GREEN LAND CLAIMS BILL. Mr FOX moved the second reading of this bill, the provisions of which he explained was to carry out tho recommendation of tho Crown Lands Commissioner in thiscnso. Mr MACANDREW objected to tho power given to the claimant to select land. He should propose certain modifications in the committee. The motion was agreed to on tho voices and tho bill was committed forthwith. On clause two being read, Mr MACANDREW moved that the Chahnian report progress and ask leave to ait again. Mr MAIN supported the motion. Ultimately the further consideration of the bill was postponed until a later period of the evening. WELLINGTON WASTE LANDS BILL. Tho House then went into committee on this bill. On clause two, which gave power to tho Prorinciul Council to set aside blocks of land for special settlement, being read, Mr LUDLAM objected to the clause as giving the Provincial Council too much power, a power which ought to be retained by tho Assembly. Mi* HALL said that this clause gave the Superintendent and Executive power to set aside waste lands of tho crown on any terms whatever, which he thought waa ultra vires. He should support a motion that the clause be expunged. Mr BUNNY said that ho should support the clause, but would like to see the power in the hands of the Provincial Council. The hon. gentleman then moved an addition to the clause restricting the Council from selling land at a lower rate than that fixed by tho waste lands regulations. Mr BRANDON could not at all understand the outcry of members about delegating to the Provincial Council the power of dealing with their own property. Tho object of the clause was to enable the Provincial Government to establish settlements similar to those established at the commencement of tho colony at Wellington, Nelson, Canterbury, or Otago. If hon. members were afraid to trust the councils with too much power, ho was prepared to see a restriction introduced to say 200,000 acres, which would enable the Provincial Government to lay off two settlements of 100,000 acre 3 each, which would be a starting point for the scheme. When the General Government was taking to itself such large powers in all directions, ho did think it was too hard on the Provincial Government to refuse this boon. An amendment by Mr Bunny, that the word Executive bo struck out, and the words Provincial Council inserted, which would havo the effect of giving the power to act aside tho blocks of land for special settlement, was agreed to, as was also the hon. inembor's addition to the clause. The clause, as amended, was then put and agreed to. Tho remaining clauses were then passed through committee, reported to the House, the bill read a third time, and passed. WESTLAND WASTE LANDS BILL. The House then went into Committee on this bill, which, after some formal amendments, was reported to the House, and, on the motion of Mr W. 11. Harrison, read a third time and passed. ICAIAI'OI NATIVE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL GRANT BILL. Mr M'LEAN moved tho second reading of this bill. Tho motion was agreed to, and the House went into committee on the bill, which passed through without amendment, was read a third time, and passed. VOLUNTEER ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. Mr M'LEAN mored the second reading of this bill, which ho explained was to give effect to the recommondation of the committee on militia and volunteer law. Tho motion was then agreed to on the voices, and tho House went into committee on this bill, when it passed through committee, was read a third time, and passed. WATER RIGHTS BILL. This bill, on the motion of Mr J. C. Wilson was discharged from the Order Paper. iiawke's bay crown ' lands bill. On tho motion of Mr M'Lean tho House went into committee on this bill, when it passed through committee, was read a third time and passed. RAILWAY GUAGE BILL. This bill passed through committee without amendment, was read a third time and passed. NATIVE LANDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr M'LEAN moved tho second reading of this bill, which was agreed to, and the House went into committee upou it, when it passed without amendment, was read a third time and passod. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. Mr YOGEL moved the second reading of this bill which he said had been referred to the Select Committee on the Public Accounts ; briefly explaining the provision of the measure. Tho second reading of the bill wus then ngreed to, it passed through committee, was read a third time and passed. THE GEORGE GREEN LAND CLAIMS BILL. Tho House went into committee on this bill. Mr MEKVNN proposed nn amendment restricting the selection of land by tho claimant to blocks ofland to bo thrown open during tho next six months. A division took place on this amendment with tho following result.— Ayes, 17 ; Noes, 21. Tho amondmont was therefore negatived, and tho remaining clause passed through committee. Mr M'INDOE moved that the bill be recommitted for the purpose of considering clause two of this bill. As ho objected to the very largo powers boing given to tho claimant. Mr MERVYN, Mr Maeandrew, and Mr Wood supported the motion for re-committal. Mr WILSON and Mr Carleton opposed the recommittal. Mr HALL suggested that the third reading should bo postponed until tho intentions of tho arbitrator had been ascertained. Mr M'INDOE declined to withdraw his motion. The House divided on tho question of recommittal with tho following result. — Ayes, 16 ; Noes, 17. The amendment was therefore negatived, arid tho further consideration of the bill adjourned to next sitting day. MOIIAKA AND WAIKARA BILL. The House went into committee on this bill, when it was passed through committee without amendment, read a third timo and passed. IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS LOAN BILL. Mr YOGEL said in moving the second reading of this bill said, that this bill bad been the subject of so much discussion ho would not detain the House by any lengthened remarks on it. The last clauso was slightly altered in order to meet tho contingency of tho Parliament at homo passing tho million loan, as it was not known what shape tho measure might assume before finally passing. It would bo left with tho Lords of tho Treasury that this million loan should not toko priority over tho loan which they were passing this session. Ho would now move tho second reading of this bill. Mr JOLLIE euid he folt it his duty to offer a final but hopeless opposition to tho passing of this measure. The bill now before tho House implied not only four Bullions of money, but there was another million which had boen sanctioned by the Imperial Parliament. The bill practically cotnmittod the House to an expenditure of ten millions. Ho had stated that the House could not possibly withstand a demand for defence and other purposes, and ho should not have opposed a moderate sum for these purposes. He would have put on ono side £500,000 to tako up the floating debt, and £500,000 for purposes of defence. Of the remaining million he would have likod to have seen £250,000 applied to immigration, and the remaining portion to publio works. This would have been his programme, and ho thought

l this would have beon pledging tho credit of the colony far enough. The expenditure he had referred to would have satisfied the requirements of the country, and he thought was quits far enough for them to go consistent with prudence and true economy. They seemed to have forgotten that they had borrowed to the extent of seven millions already ; a debt which imposed a greater burden on man, woman and child in tho colony than on the inhabitants of Great Britain. Nearlj onehalf of tho entire revenue had to bo taken out of tho pockets of the people and sont to England to their creditors there. He did not see how it wa3 possible, without adding largely to tbo present burdens of the colony, that they could meet their engagements. It seemed to him that they were in this session going in the way of Southland, and greatly over-estimating their resources, and wildly entering into speculations, fcho end of which they could not foresee. Ho believed that they would have as strong an opinion expressed on the financial schemes of tho Government by the press of England as had been made by the pres3 of the adjoining colonies. He would only now refer to the fact that the Government of India, in tho construction of their railways, had abandoned altogether the system of guarantees, as being totally inapplicable. (Hear, hear). They were, by the measures "which they were now going to pass, entering on a course which would have the effect of dwarfing the moral growth of the country in which they lived ; they were in some sort effecting a revolution — a revolution morally and financially, and hofelt sure thafe whoever lived to see the end of the term for which these measures were to extend, would see that tho measures of the Government were not calculated to advance the interests of the colony. (Cheers.) Mr RICHMOND said that when first these schemes were mentioned to him, he looked upon them as a sort of coup d'etat, and ono of the very worst sort. They should remember that they wore not burdening the estate they had in hand, but the industry of future years. Nothing that had taken place had at all reassured him on the matter. If the scheme was outrageously large in its proportions, it was loosely constituted in its details, and deficient of all those constitutional checks which should surround the spending of the public money. The proposals for a board were still fought shy of by the Colonial Treasurer. He would add his word to that of the lion, member for Gladstone, respecting the guarantees. He felt it his duty to vote against this bill ; ho did hope that they would get off their escapade with being laughed at. Of course they would have to spend money, the Treasurer would plunge them in as far as he could, and would give them over again the first act of tho Southland tragicomedy. Ho could fancy what would be said of them by the generation who would occupy fcheii 1 seats, they would say that they had launched a profligate and gambling scheme, and they would decline to recompense the liabilities imposed upon them ; and he thought that looking to the ruinous effects of the policy, posterity would bo quite justified in repudiating tho liabilities thus thrust upon them. Ho would movo that tho bill be road that day sis months. Mr BUNNY said that the hon. gentlemen who had just spoken had a perfect right to hold their opinions, but ho did think that the people of New Zealand held a different view of this subject to that promulgated by those gentlemen. Ho had been for some time impressing the necessity on the Government for the immediate expenditure of publio money in public works. He held that it was possible the Government might make a shipwreck of the administration of tho powers which had been conferred on them. If the Government wished to mnko their mark in the history of New Zealand and to carry out a policy which would be a glory to them and an honor to the House and country they must carry out a colonial policy undeterred by provincial jealousies, either to one province ov the other. Ho trusted that tho bill would be read a second time, and that tho Ministry would by a wise and careful administration make their mark in the history of Now Zealand to their own honor and the advancement of tho colony, (Cheers.) Mr BRANDON would support tho amendment because he, and he believed other hon. members had understood that the Government would not come down with any railways this session. For this reason, and for tho further reason that he could not see to what limit they were going to confine thomselves, and because he did not soo how they would obtain tho money required. He snould oppose the second reading. Mr LUDLA.M could not go so far as the hon. member for Porirua. He thought that it wascleurly understood that the Government would not come down to ask for powers for construction of railways during this session. If he felt surothat the throwing out of these moasuros would not retard tho progress of the colony, he should havo votod for tho amendment. Ho looked upon the proposal to the House to consider railways this session as a bud omon for tho future policy of the Government. Mr WILLIAMSON said that it required a groat deal of political effrontery to come forward and oppose this bill. The hon. member for Gladstone, who came forward at this late period oi tho session, had not mado any mark in the colony, and yet th came forward to oppose the progress of New Zealand by means of these colonising schemes. He did trust that the House would recollect that their brethren were looking longingly towards them, and what they reaily wanted was people. Ho trusted that these feeble-minded legislators would not longer be allowed to occupy the seats they had so long occupied to the detriment of tho colony. Ho trusted the House would throw out tho amendment of tho hon. member for Grey and 8011. Mr HALL could not vote with his lion, friend the member for Grey and Bell. He was of opinion that the Government should not have done more than to introduce their policy, and leave the people, who were now about to elect (heir representatives to the Parliament, (o decide upon it. But the parliament had thought otherwise, and had agroed to carry out the schemes of the Government. He therefore could not do less than give his vote to the authorisation of borrowing money ; at tho same time he thought that this authorisation was fur too great a ono. The system of guaranteeing tho interest on mono.}- for tho construction of railways was a vicious principle). 110 could not agree with tho hon. member for tho Hutt that the Government had given any understanding that they would not go on with the railways during that session. Ho tidhcred to tho opinion that it would havo been far better for tho Government to havo allowed tho works to havo stood ovor for tho consideration of the new Parliament, with the exception of those works of which the Government possessed plans, &o. Mr MERVYN asked the Government whether they intended to spend tho wholo sum of a million on immigration, without tho possibility of tho conduct of tho Government being rcviewod by the House during the next session. So fur as ho could judge the scheme of the Government appeared to him to be based upon f.-tlse principles. Tho merely bringing in of peonlo to go ou to public works would uol bo the true method of colonisation. Mr MOOREHOUSE said ho would desire to say a fow words on this matter. He had listened with great pleasure to the speech of the hon. membor for Gladstone, not that it would havo the effect of altering the convictions of anyono, but bocause it was delivered under a sense of duty. It was a matter of history in the colony that publio works constructed by meaii3 of public monoy hael boon successful, as had been proved by as largo or larger works in comparison to the population, or as theso proposed to be initiated. He held that tho industries and tho resources of the colony were as yeb untouched, and wore languishing for want of population. Ho could understand that there would be a number of objections to the policy o the Ministry ; but the ditiiculties wore no cloubt patent to to the Government, and they would tako opportunities to rectify it. Ho had no fear of tho capacity of the present Government, and ho felt that ho was fully justified in supporting this scheme publicly, and in aiding Ministers to avoid those points which might bo fatal to their scheme. Ho could not help thinking that the opinions of his hon. Mend, the member for Grey and Bell, would havo some weight with some feeble minded persons at home. The publio opinion of England swayed, by the press of tho country, often judged tho colony on

—^ aa^^BL J— " *** w ti."ii -ii ii. i-^.i jr . "r I false, premises, but tho man of business looked to his chance of repayment before lending his money. He fully believed that these meaBuves were ones of great importance, and he shared with tho lion, member who had spoken last the feeling that a vast responsibility restod on tlioso who wero about to carry out the policy of the Government, but ho bolieved at the same time that these measures would bo carried out to fruition by tho Government in a manner which would reflect credit on tho colony as a whole (Cheers.) Mr YOG-EL said that the opposition to the bill had brought out speeches from all sides of the house, which placed the measures of tho session in a far better position than before. Ho desired to give an unqualified denial to the assertion of the hon. member for the Hutfc, that the Q-overnment had been guilty of a breach of faith. The G-overnment had never thought of limiting the Houso from considering the construction of some railways during the present session. Take the province? of Canterbury and Otngofor instance, they had powei'3 to construct railways, and they would do so, and they would thus have destroyed that equilibrium which they had established that session— and in no case did the lino respecting tho breaking of one link being tho destruction of Iho whole chain apply with such force ; and tho G-overnment felt this that tho necessities of the colony pressed upon them the coming down and obtaining power to make railways this session. Ho contended that, the hon. member for Grey and Bell had not been actuated by a public spirit in his opposition in this measure during this sossion. What did ho do ? Ho did not give his voice with tho noes when the question was put to go on with the consideration of the measures, but now at this late period of tho session, when tho prospects of office and his return to that Houao became more and more distant ho became reckless, and had actually moved that tho bill be read a second time that day six months. The hon. member would very likely go to a constituency on tho strength of this, and introduce himself to them as the leader of tho Opposition, pointing out that it was necessary that a leader of the Opposition should be in the House. If these proposals had been for war instead of peace would the hon. member have opposed it? He said as tho policy did not contain an clement of war the honorable member could not see any good in it. The hon. momber was a sort of evil genius of tho colony, and as he that morning gave orders for tho Port of Wnitara to bo. declared a port of entry, lie thought of the ruin in which the colony had beeu plunged by the hon. member, and from which they wero no doubt now suffering. He thought that hon. members looked upon the introduction of railways with a sort of superstitious dread. Modern science had reduced the price of railways to that of macadamised roads, and if they could carry them out afc that rate, and give to tho public increased facilities, why should they not carry them out. Whatever might be the opinion of bon. members, the colony generally was in favor of tho measure as a means of opening up and settling the colony. Tho whole thing might bo summed up in a few words, "Do webflievein the capabilities of New Zealand." If they did why Bhould they not open up their resourcesmineral and natural ? Why should they not say to the overburdened millions at home, hero is a fine coxmtry, come and help us to open it up and utilise itsro^ources ? That was tho policy of the present Government. (Loud cheers.) The question for the second reading at. onco was then put, and declared to bo carried on the voices, when a division was demanded with the following result:— Ayes, 35 j Noes, 6. Tho following members voted with tho Noep : — Messrs Eichmond, Collins, Brown, Brandon, Kynnersley. Tho bill was then read a second time. The House adjourned at 1.45.