REMOVAL OF THE SEAT. OF GOVERNMENT.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVIII, Issue 1990, 1 December 1863, Page 2

REMOVAL OF THE SEAT . OF GOVERNMENT.

Mr Domett, in moving the following resolutions — " 1. That it has become necessary that the seat of Government of the colony of New Zealand should be transferred to some suitable locality in Cook's Strait. 2. That, in order to promote the accomplishment of this object, it is des rable that the selection of the particular site in Cook's Strait should be left to the arbitrament of an impartial tribunal. 3. That with this view a bill should be introduced to give eSect to the above resolutions" — said it was not, his intention to enter into any statement of arguments for or against the general question of removing the seat of government, nor did he desire to evoke any discussion on that question in the House, as it had beett so. often discussed that he thought hpn. members would consider it almost useless and unnecessary. He merely wished to state why these resolutions were proposed now. It bad become necessary, he thought, that some steps should be taken now to decide this question. The rapid increase of the southern part of 'the Middle Island had given and would continue to give, that portion of the country such influence that their desires on this subject must be attended to. He was quite certain, such was the feeling of the inhabitants of the South, that unless some steps in this direction were taken, they would do aH that lay in their power to secure the separation of the colony, an event than which, be believed nearly erery hon member would agree with him that there could be do possible greater evil. All history showed that the separation of populations which might form one state into smaller states, few or many, was a great evil : as instances of which he cited Greece, Italy, and Germany, all of which by divisions had lost the high place they might have otherwise occupied. By the formation of provinces one step bad been taken to the accomplishment of this result in New Zealand; and be had supported the New Provinces Act because he had hoped that divisions under it Would take place to such an extent as ultimately to reduce the Provinces to the rank of counties and so tend to keep the country a united one. He still believed that measure should be upheld or something more effectual eubslitated if we did not mean to bequeath the greatest curse wo could to those who succeeded us in this country He did not think that locking together of states called a federal union could ever make a firmly united and great country. Of this the states of America were an example, and it was probable that the present separation would not be the only one but that the process would go on for sereral ages, anil perhaps it was the best thing that could have happened for mankind and themselves also. To forestall the separation movement it had now become necessary to do something to settle the ceotral seat of Government ;aud the members of the districts round Cook's Strait had with one or two exceptions at last come to an agreement to get rid of jealousies which had hitherto stood in the way of the question being settled. Personally, he did not caie much about the question, in fact he would rather see the seat of Government remain at Auckland, but he believed the sou them settlements of the country would soon be so powerful that they would insist upon having the Government without giving any reasons for it; and to obviate that first step to 'separation he had brought these resolutions befure the Houh«. The third resolution of which be had given notice he could not proceed with as it was thought belter to proceed by address to her Majesty than by enactment, and he believed himself that that would be the most constitutional and most satisfactory plaa. The first two resolutions he now begged to move. In reply Mr Stafford the Speakeb said • be should put the two clauses as one resolution uuless the House preferred to consider them separately, _ Mr Eyes quite agreed that the time had arrived for the seat of Government to be removed ; and looking very unra'roiable upon separatiou, and he believing that the removal of the seat of Government was the only way to prevent that, he most cordially the moiion. Mr Weld supported the motion. He had always thought the seat of Government should be removed, without caring where it was removed to. He believed that for the future no reaion could exist for the Governor being placed faoe

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to face with the natives; and he believed that one of the greatest evils that existed were the meeting of natives with the Governor in his back parlour. (Hear, Hear.) Seeing that the responsibility of managing native aff.iirs lud been transferred to the Parliament, he thought the time had passed for the Governor to be manager and negotiator of native aflTtirs. The time had gone by fur managing the natives at all, and admitting that, the whole argument for the necessity of the Governor residing here, dropped to the ground. As to separation, ha did -think it one of the worst things that could happen. It was impossible that any set of Ministers residing in Auckland could even lend their attention to the wants of those provinces and be thought the responsibility of attending to the wants of those provinces should not devolve upon private members, but that tbe Government should bring down comprehensivemeasures. He should certainly prefer Picton as the seat of Government, as being the mo9t central and possesing several other advantages; but whether it were Picton, Wellington, or Nelson be cared not, so long as they met in a more central position. j

Mr Brodik said if" tbe arguments of the last speaker, was worth anything, his object would be achieved by having two distinctgovernmcnts for each island. Separation was deprecated because he supposed they would become less powerful ; and the Italian States and the German Contederation had beeu cited, but there was no similarity betweeu their position and ours, as we were not surrounded by hostile states. No reason had been given for the better government of the colony being facilitated by removiug the seat of Government to Cook's Strait. Was it to be seen thut with a ministry, whose sole employment almost had been the management of the natives, would forget those duties by a removal to the more genial climate of Cook's Strait. It was a question of interest and not of distance, and, he believed, the best course to adopt would be to hare a government in each Island.

Mr Colenso had come to the conclusion that it was utterly impossible that the members of the larger provinces could form a disenterested opinion on the subject. He approved of having the Government more centially situated, bnt they should not iind the sentre geographically ; it was their centre of gravity they wanted to find, and those centres would be found in Auckland and Otago, which were the foci ; but if the Seat of Government was in Cook's Strait they would find that they would ultimately hare three seats of Government. It was said tbat Auckland.was atthe extremity of the Noi them Island ; but he was inclined to think that two provinces coule very well be cut out farther north, and if gold was found at the Nortb Cape and the Bay of Islands these two provinces would no doubt be established. The decisiou of where the Seat of Government should be was to be left to an " impartial tribunal," Where was such a tribunal to be found ? It was said that the Governors of Australia would be this tribunal, but he insisted that they would not be an " impartial tribunal, as one Governor would most probably be interested in Nelson, another in Wellington, aDd so on ; and the only impartial tribunial would be the Qoeen, He was not one who was inclined to speak of rested interests, but he did think if any one had a right to speak them it was the people of Auckland. (Hear.) But all these arguments about the Seat of Government being removed, vanished whtn they considered that they were going to have steam and telegraphs. This motion was an attempt at the introduction of the thin end of the wedge, I and he should oppose it. Mr Wells thought they should look to the future, to what New Zealand was likely to become, as well as what it was. Looking at these islands geographically, and on the principle of physics tbat Government of the country would be more easily carred on from a centre, they must see the necessity for the Seat of Government being removed. As a matter of fairness to the Southern members they should meet them half-way. Mr Geoege Graham said they must remember that there was a population of 40,000 natives in this Province. For three and twenty years there had been only native charged with murder and convicted. We bad a population of 30,000 Europeans, making altogether a populatiou of 70,000 in the province. The natives owned 15 million acres out of 17 millions, and the resources of the Province had been locked up, and systematically so through the jealousy of the Southern provinces. He thought they were wrong here in complying with the laws — (laugh.) In Wellington, they broke the law, and kept the natives quiet ; and here we complied with the law, and we have the natives in j rebellian — (langhter.) The people lrid been i too scrupulous in obeying the law. Gold bad been found at Coromandel, at K=upara, and at the Thames ; and yet the lands were kept locked up, The hon. member then referred to the number of crimes committed by the European population, as being largely in excess of those committed by the native population. No doubt the natives had escaped- (hear, hear and a laugh). He was continuing bis speech

when — • The Speaker called his attention to its being three o'clock, and the necessity for the adjournment of the debate. Mr. Fitzherbert moved the suspension of the standing order, that the debate might be continued. Mr John Williamson said there were hon. members absent who did not think the debate would come to an end that day, and that therefore it would be unfair to conclude it in their absence. He thought it possible that some hon members might have changed their opinions since last year; and therefore the desirability for re-opening the question. Mr Fitzherbert had no desire to stifle au expression of opinion, and it was with a contrary view that he desired that the debate should proceed. Mr Stafford objected to the motion on the ground that this was a Government clay. There were important questions before the House — the Loan Bill for instance — and as several members proposed to leave by the steamer on Tuesday next, he did not thiuk the business of the House should be arrested by this motion. He confessed that he had only seen the notice of motion on this subject in the morning papers, and was therefore taken by surprise, and quite unprepared to discuss it. Mr. Fox said the Government had no objection to the debate beiug resumed nfter the orders of the day were disposed of, but the piess- ) ing nature of the Government business rendered it absolutely necessary that they should proceed with it. Air. Fitzherberi 1 withdrew his motion, and the debate was adjourned. After adjournment, Major Richardson moved that the debate on Mr Domett's motion be resumed. Agreed to. Mr G. Graham then resumed the speech he was making when the debate was broken off. He believed he had convinced the House that the ! Province of Auckland contained a greater number of inhabitants than any other. (Great laughter,) and that before the proposition was made to remove the Seat of Government some consideration should be given to the native J population. The high prices bad been given for the city allotments nn the credit that it was tobe the S^eat of Government, and for several years -all the laiifl revenue was derived from Auckland ; and further, but for the inhabitants of this Province persuading the natives to sign the Treaty of Waitangi just when they did, this

would never have been a British colony. It should be' remembered that this province had never had a fair chance of developing its resources, which were very great. Its harbors, noble rivers, forests, gold and other resources should all be considered ; and under the circumstances it would be most unjust now to discard tliis province and leave it to itself and it native enemies.

Mr Vooel moved that (he debate be adjourned. The hour (half-past eleven o'clock) being too lite fur to be finished to-night.

Mr John Williamson seconded the motion Mr Fox opposed it.

On a division it was negatived by 27 to 15

Mr Fitzhebbekt then moved that the question be now put. The present question was one that for years had engaged the attention of New Zealand and of its Legislature, and he was quite sure that this House would agree with him that no amount of discussion could possibly at this time bring any additional light on the merits of the question. Major Richardson seconded the motion. Mr John Williamson was proceeding to propose an amendment to the original question, when Mr Speaker said the hon. member would nut be in order in doing so npw, as the motion just made must be put at once without any discussion, the standing order relating to which he read. The preliminary proceedings for a discussion were then taken, in the course of which Mr Stafford addressing the Chair, said, " I say, sir, it was very unfair ; I say it was verj unfair: So unfair is this proceeding, that I shall not remain in the House." The hon. member then went out in company with a number of other members. Major Richardson called attention to the improper expressions used by the hon. member for Nelson, Mr Stafford. Mr Mantell moved that the words be taken down. Seconded by Mr Rhodes and agreed to. Mr Bell suggested that it would be more in accordance with the usual practice that the hon member should be in his place to give the words himself. The Speaker having read the rule on the subject the words were taken down. The division on Mr Fitxberbert's motion was then proceeded with, and resulted as follows: — Ayes 24. Messrs Cargill, Cox, Renall, Richardson, Wilkin, Richmoud, W. Taylor, Harrison, Jollie, Domett, Eyes, Saunders, Orinond, Biandon, Fitzherbert, Wells, VVeld, Curtis, H. Reynolds, Paterson, Fox, Carter, Thomson, and Mantell. Noes, 2. Messrs Rhodes and FitzGrerald. Mr Domett's resolutions were then put and carried without a division, no voice being raised against them. Mr Brodie (who had just entered), called for a division, in order that the hon. gentleman who had been taken by surprise, and had very properly, he thought, left the House, might have an opportunity of recording their votes on this question. The Speaker accordingly ordered the bell to be rang, when he was reminded that no negative voices had been given ; upon which he stopped the division, as contrary to standing orders.

Mr Brodie enquired if he was to understand thatthose hon. members were to be denied the opportunity of giring" their votes on this question. He did not trust himself to say what he thought of the present proceedings, but he suggested that it would be desirable, if only for future record, tbut they should see who really voted for this motion and who did not.

The Speakek ruled that no negative voice having been given, there cr>uld be no division.

The House then adjourned at five minutes past twelve o'clock.

THE STORMING OF BANGIBIBI. We have lirtle need to say much to-day on this

subject. We have given from the Auckland papers the fullest accounts, because these will be re.»d with the greatest interest. We should fail, however, in our duty to this community were we to let an issue go forth without offering to General Cameron, and all concerned, our hearty congratulations on the success that t has at last rewarded their attempts to crush the re-

bellion, and at the same time sxpressing the deep sympathy which is felt for those who hare so severely suffered in securing this great victory. The resistance that was made by the rebels cannot but extort surprise from all quarters, and General Cameron showed the sterling stuff he was made of, when he complimented his prisoners on the bravery of the stand they had made. Ths rebels have now learned a lesson which a hundred petty skirmishes and taking of empty pas would never teach them — they have learned that bravery, such as no people need be

ashamed of, is powerless against the appliances which the pakeha can bring to .their overthrow. What will be the practical effact of that lesson depends greatly on the manner in which the General follows up his victory. We are informed that he was intending to march on to Ngaruawahia without a moment's unnecessary delay ;|the occupation of that place being considered by the Waikalos as tantamount to utte r defeat. We put little faith in the " wise saws" of those who profess to dogmatise on what the Maories will or will not do; but one of two things looms in the distance— either the Waikatos will submit with very little further resistance, or they will say " since we are no match far the pakehas' ships and big guns, we must take ap our future positions where neither can be brought against us." They/ may possibly make another stand in a more difficult position to reach and surround, if the General delays ; but if he only pushes forward, scouring the country as much as his force will permit him, the neck of the rebellion may be broken before many mocths are over — the fountain will be destroyed and the streams of rebellion that flow throughout the couutry will be dried up. We invite our readers attention to the following article from the Southern Cross, of 23rd November, the tone and spirit of which will meet with the coidiul approval of every portion of the Colony: The news of the fall of Bangariri, which reached town on Saturday evening, caused the most intense excitement, ami tUe newspaper offices were literally besieged I>y persons anxious to obtain copies of the second editions, containing the intelligence. The inteiest continued unabated up to a late hour, and the rain at last compelled the eager crowds to seek shelter in their own homes. This feeling of intense interest was most natural. At length the strength of the Maori forces has come into collision with our troops, ami the result was a signal victory over them. It has been thought, and we confess that we were likewise of that opinion, that when the Maoris evacuated Meremere bo suddenly, and on the eve of attack, they would never again rally in force and give battle to General Cauierou. But the result hag been

different, and it is well that it is so. The enemy, to the number of 1,000 men, at the head of whom was the Maori King, made a stand at their fortified position of Rangiriri, and for ten hours disputed the ground with an equal if not greater number of our troops. We cor di;illy acknowledge that the enemy on this oc oasion, displayed some of that courage which, in former times, made tiie Maori warrior in the heat of battle no mean antagonist, We go further than this acknowledgement even, and say that with the advantage of ground 'on their side, and acting as they were, on the defensive, these advantages no more than balance those of the vastly superior arms and equipments of the troops opposed to them ; and it is no small credit indeed to have achieved a feat which, perhaps, an equal number of the best European troops in a similar position ceuld not have acchieved — namely, to repulse the headlong charge of British troops and British sailors for four successive times. The remnant of the force which did that feat of arms are now our prisoners, having surrendered at discretion, Behind their earthworks at Raugiriri they were not contemptible enemies ; and now, having vindicated their reputation as brave warriors, having fought long and well for their nationality—for the preservation of savage freedom and barbarianjlicense — and having placed themselves entirely in our power, be their past faults I we hope that until it has been finally decided what to do with them, they will receive the treatment due to brave men vanquished on the battle-field. It is not our present intention to indicate the course the Government oujiht to take regarding the prisoners. There is a legal difficulty in the way of treating them as " prisoners of war," as the gallant General terms them ; but with that difficulty we will not now meddle. We would rather take our readers in imagination to the field of battle, and ask them to follow the course of the attack, and struggle so far as we know it. On Friday monuug last, tbe troops mussed at Meremere, marched towards Rangiriri, in two divisions, General Cameron anil staff a«oompanying the last division. Drafts from the various regiments in the Queen's Redoubt, to the number of about 500, were embarked on board the Pioneer and Avon jjunboais ; and in addition to the crew of sailors and marines in these vessels, there was a strong force of b<>th branches of the service manning the four gunboats which the steamships had in tow. Altogether our force numbered from 1,200 to 1.300 officers and men. The country between Mfremere and Rangiriri is open fern land, of that undulating character so general in this part of New Zealand, The laud force encountered no opposition on the line of march, nor were any of the enemy seen on either bank of the river from the gunboats, until within a short distance of Rangiriri, The enemy fell back, on observing the advance by the river, and it at first seemed to those on board as if they did not mean to make a stand in force. But ashore the state of the case was different. The troops were confronted by the enemy in position, who occupied a long line of rifle-pits constructed with unusual skill. The works Were very extensive, and opposed an entrenched face to any line of advance the assailants could make against it. The rifle-pits were connected by traverses, as at Meremere — a fact which was not known by a reconnaissance from the river. It was supposed by all that had reconnoitered the position from the river, that the lines of rifle pits could be mked by the ship's guns ; but their construction hindered this from taking piace. To be taken they must be assailed in front; and this mode of attack, we know, is most congenial to British feelings. At three o'clock in the afternoon General Cameron drew up his force in line, about three hundred yards from the .first line of entrenchment. Two Armstrong gii'is were got into posi lion, and with them and the guns on board the four gunboats, which had been towed into position, the shelling of the enemy's works commenced. The practice was excellent, the natives returning our fire with small arms. Tbe shelling was continued for about an hour and a half, during which time the debarkation of tbe greater part of the conttngeut from the Qeuen's Redoubt had been effected. These were led to theattackontherightflcUikseveralhundredyards to the rear of the enemy's first and second lines of defence about the time that the advance was sounded in front. The troops charged with their usual impetuosity, dashing through the fern, and up to the enemy's works in face of a very heavy front and flanking fire, which told severely on them. The onset of the soldiers was too great to be withstood, and the enemy fled from the first line of trenches towards his strongest and central works. The rebels suffered severely here. Whilst this was taking place in front, the force landed from the gunboats attacked the rifle pits, flanking and in rear of the position ; but lbs enemy soon abandoned the defence of the works, and fl"d precipitately towards the swamp and Lake Waikari, — by which their retreat, they had supposed was open. The slaughter of the rebels at this point was greater thau elsewhere (luring the the engagement. They were exposed to a running fire from their pursuers for a considerable distance ; and, although they soou disappeared over the almost precipitous side of the deep gully, which stopped the pursuit, they were then by no means safe. Lining tbe edge of the gully, the troops fired down on tbe rebels as they crawled or struggled through the mud, tall flax, and rough grass, and tbe corpses of many could be seen lying on a slimy bed. So dense is the vegetation, however, that although many bodies could be distinguished from the bank overlooking the swam, tbe blue jackets sent down to pick up any corpses they could find, were obliged to give up their task unsuccessful. They could not see an^ distance around them. Eminently successful as our forces were at the rear, we regret to say the fortune of the day was differentin front. The first line of rifle-pits was rushed, and the enemy driven from his cover at the point of the bayonet. On oar men pressed, lessened in numbers, and exposed to a heavy fire from the rebels in their second line of defence, which turned out to be the centre and key of the position. Here those who fled from the first parallel rallied, and so determined was their stand, that the attacking paity were forced to retiie under the shelter of the first traversed line. The impetus of the charge was lessened. Four attempts were made to storm the centre of the enemy's position, and four times the assailants were repulsed with loss. The 40th attempted to storm it; then the Royal Artillery, under Captain Mercer, but with a like result in both instances — the enemy remained in possession, and our lorce retired. The evening was advancing and General Cameron requested Commodore Sir Wiliiam Wiseman to land a strong part) of sailors itnd marines to assist in storming the works. The request was gladly complied with, and the gallant blue jackets and marines, led by Captain Mayne, of tue Eclipse, were soon at the scene of action. This reinforcement was composed of fresh men, and they advanced to the attack with the greatest impetuosity, in the face of the heavy and coatinuous fire the rebels were keeping up. The naval brigade was repulsed. Again they rallied, again they attempted to storm the enem/s and again they fell back discumfited. The loss of officers was unusually heavy in these attacks. Captain Mercer fell dangerou>ly wounded, close under the enemy's works, while gallantly lead ing his men ; and tne same fate befell Captain Mayne, E.N., Lieuts. Downesand Alexander of the Miranda and Curacoa. These repeated repulses proved that the position was much too | strong to carry by storm without scaling ladders, i arid accordingly it was determined to effect a

breach. For this purpose guns were gotinto positiioD, and fire opened upon the works, which consisted of a square redoubt, surrounded by a dry ditch 9 feet w ide, and protected in front and on the flunks by lines of traversed pits. The parapet was 21 feet high. This, in itself, was a formidable obstacle, but defended by a resolute enemy, who was fairly brought to bay, tbe difficulty in storming it was very much increased. If there had been a supply of scaling ladders at hand, no doubt the place would have been taken by escalade at the first onset. And so the firing continued during the night, the moonlight enabling the contending forces Jo discern each, other. But in the meantime the entire of the position, save the redoubt in question, was in our bands, and the troops had gradually worked in and surrounded tbe enemy. Escape for the rebels was impossible* and finding further resistance useless, they hoisted a flag of truce at half-past fire o'clock on Saturday morning, and surrendered at discretion. The triumph of General Cameren and the troops under his command was complete. The triumph of humanity over the barbarous usages of war, was likewise achieved. The enemy wa» totally beaten ; hundreds of his bravest were slain, and 183 men, many of them chiefs of distinction, had surrendered as prisoners to us. They knew their lives were at least safe ; they had no apprehension of a cruel butchery at the hands of their captors; and let us hope that this fact will induce the natives in future to act towards those who fall into their power with less murderous cruelty than they have hitherto shown. One hundred and seventy-five stand of arms fell into our hands through these prisoners. Our loss has been severe; that of the enemy more so. The rebel lo3s is estimated at 200, but we think this is under the mark, as tbe bodies af those who fell in the swamp are never likely to be recovered. Our loss is two officers and thirty-five rank and file killed ; and thirteen officers and about eighty-five rank and and file wounded, — making the total casualties one hundred and thirty-five.

. Amongst the incidents of the battle, we have been told that the enemy, who knew General Cameron personally, directed a very heavy fire towards that part of the field where he was to be seen, but fortunately the gallant veteran escuped unhurt. His orderly was shot close beside him. He was, we believe, an old 65th man. Lieutenant Talbot, of the 65th, was the first man on the parapet, and fell dangerously wounded in three places. This gallant youug officer is hardly expected to recover. Captain Mayne, R.N., is also very badly wounded. Captain Mercer, R.A., sustained a very severe gunshot wound. His jaw was broken by the bullet, which passed thiougu the tongue. For a time Captain Mercer's body lay close to the enemy's works, and a trench was dug to the spot where he lay to enable the men to remove him in safely. The chief danger apprehended ,in Captain Mercer's caaa was from want of sustenance, the wound in the tongue preventing him partaking of food. However thai difficulty has been overcome, and we are glad to find that the latest advices report more favorably of his position. He was removed to the Queen's Redoubt; and by means of surgical appliances he has been enabled to take some nourishment. Hopes are entertained of his recovery. Culverwell, Captain Mercei's servant, was shot dead at his master's side.

We understand that Matutaere, the Maori King, 'did not wait long after the advance was sounded. He did remain with his adherents while the position was shelled ; but about 4 o'clock he bolted to tbe Luke, followed and preceded by numbers of the Rebels. It was in the early part of the attack, therefore, that the enemy managed to escipe in large numbers, and reserve themselves, we suppose, for a second pitched battle. Possibly the example of the King was infectious, and it would be interesting to know whether Thompson and other prominent men of the King movement ran away when matters were becoming serious. Tbe 40th Regiment advanced by the path traversed by Matutaere and his followers not ten minutes previously. The greater number effected their escape in canoes.

General Cameron was at Rangiriri yesterday, so that an advance on Ngaruawahia has not, in all probability, yet taken place. During the course of the day we will, doubtless, receive fuller details of the engagement than we can yet give, with the official list of killed and wounded, which we will lose no time in placing before the public. The prisoners were put on board the Pioneer, and. 50 of them are now at the Queen's Redoubt. One attempted to escape and was overtaked in his flight by a rifle bullet, which took effect in his leg. We believe several of the head chiefs of Waikato are prisoners in our hands. The prisoners are to be brought down to Auckland.

In conuexion with the storming and capture of Rangiriri, we may mention that prayers for the wounded were offered up at St Paul's and other churches in town yesterday. Mrs Mercer and Mis Gamble (wife of Col. Gamble, D. Q. G.), and a servant started for the Queen's Redoubt on Saturday night. On arriving at Drury, an escort was provided for them. These ladies arrived safely at the Queen's Redoubt.