PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVIII, Issue 1869, 16 May 1863, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, May 13, 1863. The SPEAKER took the chair at 5 o'clock. Absent, Messrs Spinks, Peake, Hewett, and Crawford. PETITION. Mr CARTER presented a petition signed by 67 members of Wairarapa in favor of increasing the representation of the District. Bead, received and ordered to be printed. Mr McEWEN presented a petition from Geo. Buck, praying that the House would take steps to obtain him a road to some property he had bought of the Government, and to which no road at present was laid oT. Mr DKANSFIELD pave notice that at the next sitting day he would call attention to the unprotected state of the town and suburbs in concequenco of recent accounts from Taranaki. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN BANDS begged the hon. member to withdraw his motion, seeing that open discussion could do no good, and suggesting that the ouly method to adopt iv that house was to call for a Select Committee sworn to secrecy. Ho might add further that a meeting of the magistrates was fixed for to-morrow to take notice of the matter. The PROVINCIAL TREASURER brought up report of Compensation Committee. Received aud ordered to be piinted. The PROVINCIAL TREASURER laid on table report of Patent Slip Committee recommending it in preference to Floating Dock. Received, read, and ordered to be printed. POINT OF ORDER. The SPEAKER called the attention |of Mr Borlase to the fact that reading books or newspapers in the house waa contrary to rule. Mr BORLASE stated that no such rule existed in that House, and challenged the Speaker to prove it. The SPEAKER stated that in all cases where no special ruie existed. in the regulations of the House, the practice of the House of Commons bound them, and over-ruled Mr Borlase. PLANT FOII WHAHF. The PROVINCIAL TREASURER laid on table papers referring to the Plant for Wharf, which, on the motion of Mr Allen was ordered to be printed. SOHVEYS— (ADJOURNED DEBATE.) Mr WALLACE proceeded to address the house when he was stopped by The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN" LANDS who objected to his addressing the house on the subject. ' Mr JOHNSTON said as Mr Wallace had been previously interrupted when addressing the house on the subject, he thought he was entitled to resume it. The SPEAKER ruled that as no one opposed the return, Mr Wallace had no further right to speak either to the motion or reply . | The return was then ordered without a division. I Mr WALLACE then moved — " For a return showing : I " Ist. Names of engineers, overseers, or mii spectors of public works — the amount of salary paid to each from January 1862 to the present ! date." "2nd. A statement of Government or public works and public buildings carried out and in progress, during the same period — specifying the cost of each undertaking, the contract price and extra work done, if any, the contractor, and by whom superintended on behalf of the Government." Order granted. Mr CARTER moved— "That Mr Watt be added to the Immigrants' Promissory Notes Committee." , He did so in consequence of Mr Hewett having left. Agreed to. Mr WALLACE moved—" That the debate be resumed on his motion, No. 2, on the Ordor Paper of May 7th " For a velum giving information upon the following points, viz. : "Ist. The names of all parties employed in the Survey Department, with the amount of salary paid to each. " 2nd. The duties of each — how employed.

" 3rd. The quantity of land surveyed from April, 1862, to April, 1803 — with name of district — it on any persons run— the name of the run — ■ also, distinguishing 5s land from 10s land— and distinguishinglands surveyed by private surveyors. " 4th. Particulars of any special survey or work done.

" sth. Whether duplicate copies of all important maps have been prepared, and deposited in some separate building for safe custody, as suggested in the report of the Survey Department Committee, appointed May, 186-2. " 6th, Whether the various detailed maps of different distric ts have been connected as recommended in Report of May, 1862. "7th. Whether other recommendations of the report of the Survey Department committee of May, 1862, have been carried out respecting survey of runs, register of the survey of purchased lands, cast iron marks to obviate re-survey, &c. Bth. A statement of surveys in progress." MAJOU ROOKE'S LETTER.

Mr WATT moved the House into Committee of Supply to consider the proposition of Major Rooko commanding Wanganui Militia, suggesting that .£IOO should bo put on the Estimates for prizes for the Volunteers of the province." Mr MoEWEN said the proposition only referred to Volunteers, and asked if Militia men were to bo debarred from fi rug ?

Dr ALLISON said, ho hoped no objection would bo raised to Militiamen competing. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS agreed to the motion, and entered at some length into the unfavorable circumstances that might arise tinder which one settlement in the province might compete with an ;ho , whether from not having so good rifle ranges, special days being fixed for firing for the prizes, and the matter being more unfavorable in one place than another. He proposed that the prizes should be localized, giving so much to i :ch dist.' :*. He should give a cor. tainsutn toeach ofthe districts of Wellington, Wangavmi, the Hutt, Waivavapa, Poviiua, Rangitikoi. Mr BOIILASE saiil if they made a challenge cup, they reduced tho matter almost to a cert -inty, as tho crackshots would have it all to themselves. What they wanted was to encourage the use of tho rifle among all classes, and to gain that end you must scatter the prizes. &lr DUNCAN suggestion a sum in the aggregate should be voted, and leave details to the Government. Tho COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS said theHou^e had better classify the prizes, and decide whether Militiamen were eligible or not to compete.

Mr HUNTER said it should be open to parties liable to sermgin the Militia. The Militia might not be embodied at the time.

After a lengthened discussion in which Messrs Allen the Commissioner of Crown Lands, Stokes, Mc'Swen, Schultze, and Watt, took part. The motion was ultimately amended by adding " that the prizes were open to all Volunteers and Militiamen, or ofher irhrbitants of the province whose name should appear on the jury list," and carried without opposition. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS with a few explanatory remarks moved — " That in the opinion of this Council, the exercise of Land Orders granted by t>j CmmL '.oner to Naval & Military settlers ou ..t to bo restricted to blocks of Land on the frontiers specially re ;erved for the pr.'pose. " Provided always, that w' en claimants whose applications have been favou.ably reported on, shall desire to select their lands ekswheve, the above restrictions may be relaxed, subject to the following conditions, viz : 11 1* That the lands they propose to select ihall be surveyed by them free of cost to the Government, and to the satisfaction of the Commissioner. •' 2. That in such cases the Land Order shall be withheld until after the survey Bhall have been so completed." Mr BORLASE would not agree to this motion. He did not see why soldiers should be compelled to reside on the lands they selected. They had been told in that House that the majority bartered away their lands, and left the district. He knew numbers who were well doing in town at other evocations, who were saving money to go upon their properties. He understood the land was given them as a reward for military cervices, they could remain on it or not at tlieir option ; what we wanted was to have a trained force living iv the district, who would be useful in case of emergency. He did not see how a man just discharged was to pay for survey of his land, you might as well say stop military land orders in future, and this motion was nothing but a side wiud to do it. Dr. ALLISON said military settlers had no taxes for roads to pay to their lands, their neighbours did that for them, because till they got Crown Grants they were not liable as owners, he should vote with the Government.

Capt SMITH said discharged soldiers were only required to remain in the province, they were at liberty to employ themselves in any way they liked.

Mr HUNTER thought this was not the time to push the motion. If they required their services it was only giving £20 tor immigration, and paying it in land to a class already on the spot. Such alterations might have the effect of driving this class of settlers entirely away. He did not approve further of forcing the men to settle on the frontier, it was only to make the men paupers. He himself knew numbers working in town to get means together to settle in the country. Mr TAYLOR did not approve at all of military grants. The soldiers would have remained whether they got land given them or not. He should have supported the Government, even if they had brought forward a measure stopping all further military land orders, Mr WATT agreed with Mr Hunter, the men ought not to be expected to go out at once upon the frontier. It was expected 95 men would shortly be discharged from the Gsth in Tarauaki, and in all probability they would seltle in this province. He therefore stoutly objected to the Land Regulations being altered. Mr McEWEN said this scheme had cost the Government a good round sum already. Soldiers had not sufficient title to be legally called upon to pay road rates, boundary fence?, or anything else. A number had settled at the Pahautanui reserve and not a farthing could begot from them for local rates until they got their Crown Grants. Mr WALLACE said those naval and military settlers had been wasting their lands away, anu he hoped the Commissioner of Crown Lands instituted a strict enquiry before the Crown Grants were issued as to whether the man had really ful- | filled the conditions. Partiei had bought their land orders for less than 5s an acre and cold them again at a profit. Again many of these men could come down from Auckland when their services \ had been chiefly given and claim land here. He should support the motion. The PRO. SOLICITOR said a "great deal of land in this Province had been taken out of the hands of the Government by the natives being allowed to sell. Every grant to the military lessened our revenue, and we had all expense of survey to pay. He did not agree with Mr McEwen who had said discharged soldiers could not be made to . pay rates till they got the Crown Grants. If any ! magistrate had decided so, he should recommend an appeal against the decision. Mr ALLEN suggested the word " frontier" be struck out, he did not think that discharged soldiers should be forced out on to the frontier, but he decidedly thought they should be stopped •• spotting" about the country. Mr JOHNSTON Baid he should support Mr Allison's view and strike the word "frontier" out, he perfectly agreed with the Commissioner of Crown Lands, the system had not retained settlers in the place. It was usual however to make these grants, and as other Provinces did the same he supposed they ought.

The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS deemed that the remarks that had fallen from Mr Boilase relative to these land orders being_ given in the light of rewards for military services is one of those gentleman's hallucinations. It had nothing to do with I mperial Legislation. The General Assembly had said in 1858 that it was desirable to encourage the settlement of naval and military men in the Northern Island. If it had i been a matter of merit he should not so much have objected to the system. But how did the scheme work ? Why ! a young gentleman "on town" he might say who happened to be possessed of three or four', hundred pounds, could get four hundred acres lor nothing, having simply after purchasing an ensigncy, hold it for a few weeks, then Bell out, and walk into the Commissioner's office hero and demand his grant of land. The Government ought to make it a sine qua non that military settlers should be embodied and be under the command of some officer who could call them together now and again to report their residence in the Colony, and in the event of hostilities command them. At present he could not find out whether they were resident in the colony or not. He had addressed circulars to many of them requesting them from time to time to report the fact of their residence in the Colony to- him,) but it had failed to bring in anything but the smallest fraction of replies, Land oi'ders was a matter of notorious traffic. One way they managed to do this was to receive from the purchaser twenty shillings down, so much per annum for five years and when the Crown Grant was issued the balance- If there was any moaning in giving military cottiers land, on the frontiers was the place to do it, because then they paid an equivalent in the event of their services being required. However, he had, he considered modified the mater of locality by allowing the Superintendent the power to lay off blocks, and had added a clause that would permit them to select elsewhere if they thought fit but not to spot about the country. Mr Borla.el had cried out that tlie expenses of survey would be too heavy fov the soldier if bound to do it himself. How was it he would ask that some of them had employed Land Agents to select for them ? He fearlessly appealed to the House to put some check on this lavish waste of land, they were now giving more land away than any other Province, The hon member concluded a long speech by declaring his resolution to divide the House on the amendment.

Mr BORLASE in spealc'ng to fcha amendment wished to avoid the word iiontier, as they could not define it. He thought the house had no ri-rht to spot places for these claimants, but even if they did he did not see that the extremity f." the Province \ should be the frontier.

Upon tho understanding that the words •• suitable blocks of land" be inserted instead of the word '*• frontier," Mr Johnston withdrew his amendment, and the resolution was passed.

Mr TAYLOR moved, pursuant to notice " thot the memorial of MoLiggan and Thompson be referred to the Committee on Private Grievances," which, after a remark from Mr Wallace, was agreed to • ■ v The COMMISSIONER OF GROW;S[ Jt^SJ^i moved for leave to bring in a bill to appoint John

Morrison, Esq., of Adelaide Place, London, to be agent, for the Province of Wellington. ■. -,• i- •■■- Leave granted, bill read fiist time; ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time to-morrOwV.. SIGNAL STATION IN TOBY STBEET TE ABO. Mr'BORLASE moved that the house resolvitself into Committee of Supply to take the following motion into consideration, viz: — '-That a res' actml address be presented to "his Honor the Superintendent praying that a sum of £26 be placed on the Estimates for establishing and maintaining a simal at-. - ion in Tory-street. • The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS hoped that the hon. member would not press the motion. It was a miserable affair. All such matters, for the convenience of the public, should be dc.lt -with by the Town Board Act when brought inio oraraiion. Mr BORLASE quite agreed with the hon. member; his only reason for bringing the matter before the Council wai that a petition signed by nearly 100 inhabitants, had been presented to that house, and he wanted to see whether their wishes could not he carried into effect ; he would withdraw the motion. Mr WALLACE raoyedfor a select committee to enquire respecting the circumstances connected with the reserve ontheTownEelt f ofßo acres, referred to by the City Commissioners, and other reserves; and to. consider and report on the suggestion { of the City Commissioners — committee to consist of the Provincial Solicitor, Messrs Borlase, Stokes, Captain Smith, Allen and the Mover. Report to be bi ought up on Friday. COM&ITTEE BEPORTS. An extensionof time until to-morrow was granted for the bringing up of the report of the Scab Act Committee, and the report of the Immigration Committee. WANGANUI TOWN BOABD BILL. This bill passed its second reading, and was ordered to be committed to-morrow. CATTLE BILL. This bill passed its remaining stages. DRAINAGE BILL. This bill was further considered in committee, reported with amendments, and leave granted to sit again te-morrow. THE ESTIMATES. The House formally resolved itself into Com. mittee on the Estimates, progress was reported, and leave granted to sit again to-morrow. COMPENSATION BILL. This Bill passed its second reading, and was ordered to be committed presently. Subsequently repeated with amendments, and leave granted to sit again to-morrow. WANGANUI BBIDGE BILL. This Bill was further considered in Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time to-mor-row. ■• Report op the Private Grievance Comiotteb!, The following interim report of .the Private Grievance Committee was brought, up read, received and ordered to be printed. . . The Private Greviance Committee beg to report on the petition of certain inhabitants on or near Wellington Terrace, which was specially referred to it, as follows, viz . — That the evidence taken before the Committee (which is attached to this Report) does not in its opinion warrant the conclusion that the Terrace Committee is entitled to the exemption from responsibility which it appears to claim. That nevertheless tho entire responsibility connected with certain works undertaked on Wellington Terrace has hitherto fallen on the Provincial Government. That under these circumstances your Committee is of opinion that the Government would not bo justified in further conducting these work* That the establishment of a Town Board will probably before long relieve, the Terrace pommittee from any difficulty about the prosecution of the works, should that Committee in the meantime decliue to take active steps to carry on the said works on its own responsibility — a responsibility however which it does not appear to be unreasonable to expect that it should now assume. William Fitzherbert, Chairmac,

Provincial Council Chamber, May 13, 1863. Tho Council then adjourned.