PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVIII, Issue 1863, 2 May 1863, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, 29th April, 1863. The SPEAKER took the Chair at five minutes past 6 o'clock. Members present — Messrs Borlase, DeCaatvo, Rhodes, Wallace, Taylor, Carter, G. Allen, Peake, Howett, Commissioner of Crown Lands, Provincial Treasurer, Provincial Solicitor, Messrs Stokea, Dransfield, Barton, Smith, Whitewood,G. Hunter, Favreett, Buck, McEwen, Spinks and Duncan. PETITION. Mr DRANSFIELD presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Wellington Terrace " praying that the House would expedite the completion of certain public works there towards which they had contributed, and which the Contractor was prepared to finish, pending arrangements with the Government." Mr J. H. WALLACE requested permission to alter the date of the motions standing in his name from May 6th to May 7th. Granted. REPLT TO THE ADDRESS, The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS gave notice of his intention on Friday next to move a reply to the Superintendent's speech. Mr J. H. WALLACE rose pursuant to notice to ask the Government, — " What has been done under Act, No 7, Session IV., « An Act to provide for the management of « Public Park and Race Course in the Hutt District;' and if Trustees are j appointed — what steps they have taken to cany out the provisions of the Act ?" Ho said that this question should have been asked last Session. The improvement of those reserves. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS said all had been done that could be done under the Act. Five trustees were elected, Messrß Riddiford, Roy, Jiliett and himself, and another gentleman whose name our reporter did not catch. Two of the members never attended, Mr Roy being one of them, the remaining three very

rarely made a quorum, consequently most part ot the business was conducted by himself and Mr Jillett. Since Mr Jillett'a death nothing had been done. He had tried hard to get fresh trustees. They had surveyed the property and in a great measure fenced it. Although the reserve was set aside for a good purpose, the land was unavailable, he hoped that ultimately when an increase in the value of property took place, a good exchange might be effected. Mr ALLEN pursuant to notice moved, — " For a return of all correspondence, plans and specifications relating to a piece of road lately made on Wellington Terrace, in the rear of Mr Mason's premises, on Lambton-quay. Also, a return of all expenses in the suit in the Supreme Court, Mason versus His Honor the Superintendent." He remarked that these returns would greatly facilitate the proceedings of Committee. HIGHWAYS ACT AMENDMENT. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the " Districts Highways Act, 1862." He observed that there was certain defects in the old Bill of last session, that it was desirable to amend.' It had been represented to the Government that the limit of the maintaining rate was to small for repairing, he therefore proposed extending it to Is Gd, If the area over which Road Boards could have jurisdiction were extended, he saw great difficulties in the way. Ifc waa far better that small bodies of settlers united to work the Road Act. Large districts might not take advantage of the Act, but small ones would. He therefore thought, that the maxium should be fixed at ss, and the minimum at eighteen pence. With regard to Clause 2 in the new Bill he proposed that unless a ratepayer paid 5 shillings a year as an assessment he should have no vote. It waa enacted in the old Bill, that if a man had more than 100 acres he should have one vote if more than 200 two votes, and so on. Hence men who had simply 100, could deny their liability to pay local rates. He should obviate this by inserting in the last Clause, to the words under one hundred acres one vote, and so on. He moved the first reading. Bill read a first time ordered to bo printed , and read a 6econd time to-morrow. SLAUGHTER HOUSES. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS moved the second reading of " Slaughtering of Cattla Bill." Itwaastatud, said thehomnember that last session, cattle driven for slaughter only, were dangerous to the public. It had been found 6ince that they were not. This Bill would provide certain hours for driving cattle. He further observed that he was prepared in deference to Messrs Wallace and Borlase, in the event of the Town Board Bill being carried to permit licenses to be granted by the Town Board, bufc only so far &s regarded slaughtering cattle within the precincts of the town. Mr BORLASE thought that if stringent hours were insisted on, it would be the' death blow to the cattle shipment in the city, and the trade would go to Kai-warra, as in addition to the imposition of a toll, the owners would be restricted from passing through the streets at their own con. venience. The inhabitants further ought to be permitted through the Town Board to state what hours they might drive or not. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS thought it better to extend the power of this Bill to the, Town Board, when that Bill was in committee. He moved that the Bill be presently committed. Mr HUNTER was understood to say that if the Bill was not passed through committee, he should propose it being read this day sir months. Mr RHODES thought the best thing for the Bill was to put it under the table. BILL COMMITTED. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS moved — "Second reading of Cattle Bill." He repeated his statements of the previous evening, and said that when the Bill was in committee, he should move a clause enforcing penalties in the event of notice not being given to the Harbour Master or other inspecting officer. Bill read a second time. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved— " Second Reading Marine Boards Bill." He read the clauses seriatim, recapitulating his arguments of the previous evening. He would further observe, relative to the wharf, that the management of this was vested in the Superintendent, and the Government did not purpose taking it out of his hands and handing it to the Marine Board. Mr BORLASE would oppose the second reading J the Bill was expensive in the first place, and the resources of the Province would not permit it. He considered that certain officers of the Town Board could do all the duties of the Marine Boards. Already the Councils of Otago and Canterbury, had had theii Marino Board Bills disallowed by the General Government, and this would be the end of this Bill. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS replied that the Province had no idea of clashing with the General Government, aud to show that, he would state that the Superintendent had received a dispatch from the General Government, which he would ultimately produce if necessary, Bhowing that the General Govcrnmentparticularly requested the Provincial Council to take steps in the matter; they were bound eitherto passan Act, or lose the control in the matter altogether. The Otago and Canterbury Governments had mads some blunders with regard to their bills. Ifc waa true, they might be expensive to work, but the fact was the same whether the Boards were under Provincial or General Government. It was a necessity. He read the 39th clause of the General Assembly, showing, that unless the Government did something in the matter it then devolved on the General Government. He regretted the " reckless expense " that Mr Borlase spoke of, but there was no alternation. With regard to amalgamating the duties of the Town Board and Marine Board, he saw no obstacle in the way. The Bill was read a second time, and on the Provincial Solicitor was committed. . The PROVINCIAL TREASURER pursuant to notice moved — The second reading of" the Cemetery Bill," remarking curtly, that when this Bill was committed, Wellington and Wanganui would be exepted, as they were working under special Bills. WAIttARAPA RACE COURSE. Mr CARTER moved— The second reading of "the Wairarapa Race Course BilU" Mr BORLASE seconded the second reading with pleasure. Ho had got a similar Bill passed some sessions ago. Mr DRANSFIELD gave notice— 11 That he would refer the Petition of the Inhabitants of Wellington Terrace to the select committee for Private Grievances. On the motion of the COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS, the Speaker left the Chair, and the House went into committee on the " Cattle Slaughter Bill." SLAUGHTER HOUSE BILL. The House went into committee on the Bill, considerable discussion enaued. The first, clause was agreed to, virtually repealing the old Bill ; upon the second clause no opinion was arrived at. The Chairman reported progaess, and asked leave to sit again. CATTLE BILL. This Bill was discussed in committee, the Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. MARINE) BOARDS . This Bill was carried through committee with some slight amendments, reported and notice of third reading given. CEMETERY BILL. This Bill was likewise carried through committee with trifling alteration, reported, and notice given of third reading. The House then adjourned.

Thuusday, April 30th. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 5 o'clock.! Present, all the numbers with the exception of Messrs. Watt and Allison. . The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS laid the following papers on the table. " Correspondence between Mr St Hill and the Superintendent." On the motion of Mr Borlase seconded by Mr Wallace, the returns relative to the eale of 5s acre land was ordered to be printed.

The following notices of motion were made. : — Mr TAYLOR gave notice that to-morrow he would ask the Provincial Secretary — " If any information has been Bought for, or obtained by the Government, in accordance with the Resolution of this House (lOth June, 1862), as to the practicability and probable cost of Draining the Swamp on the North Bank of the Manawatu, by shortening the river course " I The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS gave notice that he would to-morrow move — "For a Select Committee to consist of Messrs. Allen, Borlase, Hunter, Rhodes, Carter, Taylor,, and the Mover, to consider and report on the Clauses of the Bill to amend the law relating to the Slaughtering of Cattle ;" and the following address to his Honor. ADDRESS. '• In addressing your Honor in the reply to the Speech with which you opened the Tenth Session of our Provincial Council, we desire particularly to express our hope that amicable relations may continue to be maintained between the two races inhabiting the Island. •' The steady progress of this Province, as shown by the statements in your Honor's speech, cannot fail to encourage us as Representatives, to endeavour in our legislative capacity to develope still further the resources of its respective districts; and we believe that, in some degree, the progress of our Province is due to the harmony which subsists between the Executive and legislative bodies. " Among the various important topics to which your Honor's Speech invites our attention, we scarcely deem any of higher moment, looking to the future, than the great subject of opening up internal communication by means of tramways or railroads. " On this, as on other subjects connected with the developenient of out' resources, we assure your Honor of our earnest co-operation.'' The PROVINCIAL TREASURER gave notice that to-morrow he should move—-" That a Select Commitfceo be appointed to consider the desirableness and practicability of constructing a Patent : Slip, or Floating Dock, in the Port of Wellington, with power to call for persons and papers ; such Committee to consist of Messix Alien, Carter, Hunter, Johnston, Rhodes, Taylor, and the • Mover." Mr STOKES said in making the following motion he would ask the indulgence of the House ' to permit him to rectify an error in it, he wished ; [ to add Captain Rhodes' name to the Select Committee. Agreed to. The hon. member then ■ j moved the following, — " For the appointment of a Select Committee to consider and report on the ; best course to be adopted for the formation of a Railway from the City of Wellington to the North Eastern Boundary of the * Province, and i [ other matters connected therewith — Committee i to consist of the Commissioner of Crown Lands, the Provincial Treasurer, Messrs Hunter, JuhnBton, Carter, Captain Smith and the mover." . He said in making the following motion, every member of the House must be deeply interested [in the question of internal communication. The plan of employing light railways for the purpose [ had been actively discussed in Canterbury, Otago, and Southland and he thought that a discussion j was necessary in that house upon so important a topic. The hon ¥ member then read a lengthened memorandum, of which all we can say at present is that it fully entered into the question of railway communication, and suggested a route through the Wairarapa with the ultimate object of having branch lines to the Wanganui and Manawatu districts. He submitted the plan not with the presumption that it was the best, but as forming the base of a discussion in that house on so vital a topic. The great difficulty ha referred to was the raising of the necessary capital, and he proposed that English capital be obtained through inducements held out by the Provincial Council. If the Government guaranteed a return of 8 per cent, he did not consider that they would bind themselves to too much; the probability being that the return would be nearer 24. The Provincial Government would not bo put to the expense of making a road, and the Crown lands : through which the railway might pass, would of cours* cease to be in the market at the price of ten shillings per acre. The hon. member here gave a quotation* from Dr Lardner shewing that in the space of something like 85 years, the carriage of goods in England had fallen from fifteen pence to three half-pence betwixt Liverpool and Manchester. Wo at present paid the enormous ', sum of two shillings and fivepence. Ho concluded a very eloquent address by urging on that house the necessity for taking some action in the < matter, of thoroughly considering it in all its bearings, and if they ultimately found that the ! scheme had too great financial difficulties for them at present to surmount, they at least would have ' made a beginning, by entering into a strict in- , vestigation of the subject, in all its details. j " Nothing." observed the hon. member, " could ( beat the Iron Horse when once he began to run." i I Steam traffic was already rapidly increasing the . trade of our port and all it required was a steady development of our internal resources. l The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS , said, the House was indebted to Mr Stokes for the trouble he had taken in the matter. He him- I self had given much attontion lately to the sub- i ject ; other provinces in the Islands were already doing the aamo, and surely we ought nob to be behind them. We were not standing still ! 1 What had become of the little coa«ters in the | place ? were they not rapidly disappearing before ■ steam vessels ? and so it would be with internal ! steam communication, the transport of all kind of '< goods would not only be tenfold increased to what i it was at present, but he even anticipated that ' there would be an end to cattle driving. If Mr > Stokes had asked for a resolution binding themselres to special action, it would have i been one thing but, he had not done so. j He had. as he might Bay, <• belled the cat," by asking for a systematic enquiry as to what would , be the most practicable. There were two ways of carrying the scheme into operation, the one was j by doing the work at the public expense, under , the control of the Executive. He objected to this, j as it was a great temptation to jobbery. The other j plan was to bring private interest to bear on the point. With regard to the Government guaran- | teeing a single rate of interest, it was open to argument. If they sanctioned a government guarantee of a high rate of interest, for say 20 years, I he thought they did a most injurious thing ; he ' could not understand why, if a country paid its ( way, they should throw out such inducements as 1 high rates of interest to English capitalists, it had j an indireot tendency to throw doubts upon their ' own solvency. In India, the guarantee was only 5 percent. The hon. member read some passages from an article in the Melbourne Argtts, \ proving that " the best investments for English i capital was in the colony " and again " that we ( imported to much prudence from home, and that I speculative industry was far better in a new colony i than at homo, where the country was crowded." i Government favored the scheme of Mr Stokes, < and would assist the committee to their utmost to '. carry out their suggestions. He mighiadd in con- i elusion, that there was one thing which might be said to be now-a-days a sequitur to railways. He need hardly say he alluded to telegraphic communication, the importance of which he need not , remark on. In traversing the Rimutaka, he had been informed on good authority, that it could be effected by tramway. He seconded the motion.

Mr WALLACE said, previous to the question being put, he would try to point out that one preparatory step had been lost sight of in Mr Stokes motion, and that was an accurate and extensive survey. He should amend Mr Stokes motion, by inserting words after Province that should render it incumbent on the select committee to call for a thorough Burvey of the route through which the proposed railway might pasß. This he observed, would serve the double purpose of opening up the country, and the same expense would do for both. By inserting a clause to this effect, the House would tie pledged to complete the survey. Capt SMITH said if the Select Committee thought a survey the wisest course, they of course would insist upon the survey. Mr CARTER said that Mr Stokes did not intend to do this matter iv a day. He remembered 10 y_ears ago fn New Zealand when Sieara Navigation Avas first talked about. The whole colony could hardly support the " Nelson" steamer, and many people thought that steam communication was going to be a dead letter. Time had now arrived -for considering steam transport in all its branches; it was true half a million was a large

'Bum to rai3e out of British capital, still other Provinces did the same, and why should not they ? He hoped the House would pass Mr Stokea' motion, and order it to be printed. It reflected great ' credit on the framer, and although there were parts I of it he did not agree with, still he considered it a valuable document. Mr RHODES supported Mr Wallace's amendment ; his own ideas were that the scheme would engross the attention of British capitalist, unless the scheme was clearly laid before them, it was positively necessary that there should be a perfect map. Although our roads were pretty good, yet it was not until they were made that people found out that a better route might have been discovered. The only way of settling the native question was by opening the country. He had little doubt if they once commenced a line of railroad, other provinces in the Northern Island would ccc the advantage of continuing the line, and we should ultimately get one continuous line of railway communication from one end of the island to the other. Difficulties might arise, no doubt, but what were the difficulties, that arose in the way of the Leeds and Manchester line in 1830 ? Whj' ! no one thought that they could be surmounted, they were going to work with fixed engines, and the first locomotive they had was a miserable clumsy affair. Still when they looked at the amount of railway accommodation v now inj England that had been given to the public during the last 40 years, why should they despair of the scheme of the hon. member for the city on account of its magnitude. The PROV. TREASURER said Mr Wallace's motion was tantamount to requesting them torecon- , siderthe matter that day six months. If a good survey was wanted, of cour*© the committee would have it done. They should survey the country and \ road together. I Some discussion here took place as to whether |Mr Wallaco had put his amendment in proper form, and if it had not been put simply as a suggestion. The Speaker ruled that it was simply a suggestion— and Mr Stokes' motion being put to the House, it waa carried. Mr ALLEN moved — " For a return of all ex. penses incurred in the Plant for the Wharf, lately arrived from England, including the Astronomical Clock for the use of this Port." The PROVINCIAL TREASURER said, that owi ng to unforseen circumstance, he could not give the return for a few days. Mr WALLACE* asked for leave to amend the Notices standing in his name for Thursday, May 7, instead of Wednesday, May 6," as he would sot be able to attend on the 6th. Mr HUNTER demurred to this request, and the Grown Land Commissioner followed on the same side. Mr Wallace replied and leave was granted. HIGHWAYS ACT. The COMMISSIONER OP CROWN LANDS moved — The second reading of this Bill. Bfr ALLEN mentioned a singular instance connected with the Road Act. A friend of his had contributed considerably to the formation of a road, when the wardens suddenly, stopped further work on it. The result was that the road was no practical benefit to him at present, and there waa no power under the Act to push the wardens on the matter. The COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS said that they could not remedy such a case by any special legislation ; if he the (Commissioner of Crown Lands) was Mr Allen's friend he would fight the wardens to the last. Bill read a second time and committed. The House then went into Committee. The « Slaughter House" and " Cattle Bill" was referred to Select Committee. MAUINE BOARDS. This Bill was read a third time and passed. DISTRICT HIGHWAYS. Read a third time and passed. WAIRAHAPA IUOE COURSE BILL. This Bill was reported with amendments to be recommitted to-morrow. v/Clie house theu adjourned.