LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVII, Issue 1745, 26 July 1862, Page 2

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Thursday, July 17, 1862. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 2 o'clock. Present —Hon. Chief Justice Arney, Col. Rusael, Captain Baillie, Major Richmond; C. 8., the Attor-ney-General, R. Stokes, G. Cutfield, J. Menzies, J. Johnston, and J. C. Crawford. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL laid on the table a copy of the "Rules and Regulations of the Tuapeka Gold Fields." On the motion of Major Richmond a Standing Orders Committee and Library and Printing Committee were appointed, and on the motion of Colonel Russell a House Committee Was appointed for making arrangements for the convenience of members . BEPLY TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEEiOH. ' : The ATTORNILY-GENERAL as Chainnah brought up the report of the Select Committee, and moved that the draft Report; aa it appeared on the motion paper be received. , . \ Agreed to. ■ 'V-'-jJi^;-

COURT OP APPEAL BILL. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL regretted he was unable to lay copies of this Bill before the members of the Council, but hoped to do so before its second readiug. He moved that the Bill be now read a first time. CHIEF JUSTICE ARNEY had no intention of opposing the motion, having assisted Mr. Justice Johnston in drawing the Bill, but would suggest that as several important measures would probably b© brought before the Council, sufficient time should be allowed for their consideration. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL entirely agreed with the Chief Justice that sufficient time should be given for the consideration of all measures. He had himself taken some pains, by circulating draft copies to allow the public mind, to be directed to the measures to be brought forward this session. The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. Several notices of motion were given, and on the motion of the Attorney-General the Council adjourned. Fbiday, JuLy 18, 1862. The Speaker took the Chair at 2 o'clock. Present the same membsrs as yesterday. ' Several papers were laid on the table by the Attorney-General, and a motion for leave to introduce several bills referring to the administration of justice was postponed to Monday. Some notices relating lo the appointment of committees were also agreed to. REPLY TO HIS EXCELLENCIES SPEECH. Mr. STOKES, in moving the adoption of the address in reply to His Excellency's speech prepared by the Committee, said he would not venture to occupy the time of the Council by dwelling at length, on the different subjects referred to in the speech, as these would in their order be presented for their consideration in the course of the session in the different measures to be brought before them. He should therefore confine himself, in. support of the address, to a few observations on the^ Native policy indicated by the speech by which the present session of the Assembly had been opened by hia Excellency. Before, however, referring to matters having immediate and special reference to the interests of the colony, he might be allowed to state his conviction, that the expression in the address of their deep and earnest sympathy with her most gracious Majesty in the great calamity which has fallen upon her and the nation at large in the death of his Royal Highness the Prince Consort would meet with their unanimous concurrence and approval. The feeling of loyalty was one most strongly implanted in an Englishman's heart, and at no time, he would venture to assert, has that feeling been stronger than is entertained towards the gracious lady, who is our present Sovereign. And the peculiar circumstances of this Colony were calculated to give greater strength and intensity to this feeling. To the majority of the colonists, to all whom he had the honor of addressing, Great Britain is our mother country, the home of our cherished associations, and in crossing the seas to another climate, in making for ourselves in another country a new home, we had only lengthened, not severed the ties which bound us like golden cords in attachment to the time honored Institutions of our country and in loyalty to our Queen. And their loyal and earnest sympathy was heightened on the present occasion by the recollection of the exemplary life of him whose loss has called it forth ; who in his exalted position as the first subject of the realm, set this bright example to his adopted countrymen — that the greatest honour, the most lasting reputation is to be gained in the path of duty. The address expresssd their grateful recognition of the motives which have induced his Excellency at great personal sacrifice to undertake tne government of the polony at the present difficult crisis, and their desire to consider and give effect to all measures which may conduce to the prosperity and advancement of both races in these Islands in a spirit of hearty co-operation. It was not necessary for him to recount the story of the events which had led to this crisis, a story of losses, anxieties, and distress—a story that had been traced in characters of blood ; neither had lie any desire to provoke a discussion on the policy which had led to these consequences. It would be sufficient in order to put before them the real nature of this crisis, to shew the state of the Colony as described in the other papers which had been laid before them. In March last year, after the suspension of hostilities at Taranaki, Mr. McLean, in a report to the late Governor, thus describes the condition of the Colony,—" Thus much, however, is certain, that the English settlements in New Zealand are at present in a more dangerous and precarious state than they have been at any period since the foun dation of the Colony." And in a reply to the representatives of this Province, and later still in a despatch to the Secretary for the Colonies, the late Governor, Colonel Browne, expressed it as his opinion that a renewal of the war, which he appeared to regard as inevitable, would result ia the destruction of the property scattered through the settlements of this island, and in the ruin of the settlers. It was in such a crisis, when those acquainted with the real state of the Colony looked forward to the future with well founded apprehension and alarm, when the page about to be unfolded to their anxious gaze seemed, like the prophet's scroll, to be written within and without with lamentation, and mourning, and woe ; it was at this critical period, when with the returning spring a renewal of hostilities was confidently expected, that Sir George Grey arrived in New Zealand to undertake the government of the country, and in expressing their grateful recognition of the motives which from a high sense of duty, induced him to accept the office, they must feel that it was a sub. ject of heartfelt congratulation that a man of his tried abilities, of his great influence with the Natives, had been appointed the Governor of the Colony. They had now before them the Institutions which had been offered by his Excellency for the acceptance of the Native tribes, and which in some districts had been already adopted by them. Without entering into the detail of these Institutions, it would be sufficient to observe that the principle on which they are founded is, to restore the confidence of the Natives by redressing the wrongs of which they complain, to satisfy their earnest cravings after law and order, to advance them in civi. lization , and to educate them in the discharge of their duties as British subjects by allowing them a share in local self-government. This in substance is the policy put forward by his Excellency for the government of the Native race with the unanimous concurrence and support of his Ministry, as expressed in their constitutional minute. This in substance is the policy which they pledged themselves by this address to consider in a spirit of hearty co-operation. Much, very much must depend on the manner in which the details of this policy are carried out, and on the agents to whom this work is entrusted. Time and patience are required for its developement. but even now it is not without its fruits. To this policy may be fairly attributed^ the present tranquility of this island ; and he might point to the road made by the Military from Auckland to tne Waikato country, to the prevention ot further hostilites between the Native tribes at Kaipara, and to the recent acquisition of the Coromandel district as evidences of his Excellency's influence with the Natives and as some of the fruits of this policy. And even in those districts where as yet those Institutions had not been received there was a growing inclination in their favour, pf which a remarkable illustration had occurred within the last few days on the West Coast of this Province, when one half of the Ngatiraukawa tribe publicly seceded from the King movement alleging as a reason that since the Ministry have put forward a reasonable policy, the King movement has no body an d falls to the ground, it depended on them to strengthen this feeling among the Natives by giving full vigour and effect to thiß policy. This was not the first occasion that the Natives had looked forward with confident expectation to the

deliberations of the great Runanga of the pakehas, and they would give them ample reason for believing their confidence to be well-founded by placing this policy on a permanent basis so as to afford the most effectual guarantees for lasting peace, and for the prosperity of both races in these islands. Mr. JOHNSTON seconded the motion. Dr. MENZIE3 agreed entirely with the addrees but did not concur with the hon. mover who understood to say, that in agreeing to the address the Council were pledged to adopt the Native policy of the Ministry which was not yet lefore them. Mr. STOKES explained. The Chief Justice expressed his gratification that the reply had not been allowed to pass without debate, it was in his opinion most proper that the Council should take some notice of the important topics touched on in that speech. As the Council would have another opportunity of expressing their feelings on the subject of the bereavement which our Sovereign had sustained, he would not at that time do more than advert to that portion of the speech. He congratulated his Excellency on his re-appointment to the Government of New Zealand. And the Colony upon again receiving a Governor whose genius for dealing with half-civilised l-aces had been displayed in the important post which had been entrusted to his guidance. The policy to which his Excellency was about to give pradical effect, had for some time been described by anticipation as a " new policy," but the mind of a large portion of the community would now be relieved by the official announcement, in the speech of his Excellency, that the present scheme was based upon the measures which had received the sanction of the General Assembly in :858. He (the Chief Justice) was rejoiced at the mode in which it was proposed that the administration of justice should in future be conducted among the Maories in Native Districts; but he did object to the power of appeal to the Supreme Court which, in a measure circulated by the Attorney-General, it had been proposed to give in certain cases. He considered that the greatest care should be taken in the selection of the Resident Magistrates, that they were competent for their duties, Jand that their decisions except in cases of excess of jurisdiction or where their proceedings were palpably illegal on the face of them, should be final. This was essential both for the sake of the dignity of their office, and for . the prevention of that harrassing litigation, which he feared would ensue, if it were possible to carry appeal in such cases as he had referrred to, to the Supreme Court. His Honor then referred to the several reports of the District Runangas, and although, of course, he did not allow himself to think that those assemblies had all at once attained to the dignity and order of European Parliaments, yet he saw in them the promise of highly beneficial institutions for the Native race. He thought that soon the Maoris would find that the making of roads through their country increased the value of their own land, and therefore that they would cease any opposition to road-making. He also thought that some system should be adopted by which the Natives might be enabled to sell small blocks of land ; of course when a Native wished to sell, a purchaser would require a title, and thus a system of individualization of Native title would be encouraged. There was, however, unfortunately, a dark side to the picture, and whilst there was much cause for congratulation, he must be allowed to refer to the lamentable state of Taranaki ; he described the relief which had been afforded the unfortunate settlers of that Province as a miserable pittance, and trusted the Government were prepared to propose an increase of the amount which the Assembly had already voted. The calamities which had befallen Taranaki were the result of measures of the Government, and not of those who had to bear the misfortunes. Ho should ever feel that the motives and conduct of the settlers of Taranaki in connection with the transactions which were followed by the desolation of that Province had heen maligned. The early settlers of Taranaki, it appeared to him from a perusal of the records of the Colony, as exhibited in the Blue Books, had settled and invested their capital under moral guarantees both from the Imperial and Colonial Governments which had never been fulfilled. They were taught to expect the enlargement of the area of their lands, but suffered only restriction. The General Assembly had pronounced to be, at least not unjust, those very proceedings by which the innocent inhabitants of that Province were plunged in misery and ruin. If the Governor or Government did not feel justified in asking for a further vote in aid of the settlers of Taranaki, he considered tha Assembly should themselves originate a measure. ! Coming back to the subject of the administration of justice amongst the Natives, ho would express a hope that the new Courts would be more in the nature of what were called Courts of Conscience, and that substantial justice would be administered without too rigid an adherence to the mere forms of law. In conclusion, he not only sincerely hoped, but confidently anticipated that the scheme of Hia Excellency would be the means of producing law and order amongst the Native race.

The ATTORNEY-GENE.RAL expressed his satisfaction that the Council had departed from tluir usual practice by discussing the answer to his Excellency's speech. It was the proper occasion for members of the Legislature to express their opinions on the subjects opened for consideration. As a member of the Government he should have had but lif tie to say, but that he was desirous of referring to a few points on which the House might expect or desire explanation. With reference to what had fallen from Dr. Menziea he (the Attorney General) did not consider that in adopting the proposed address the Council pledged itself implicitly to give its sanction to the whole policy of the Government. That would be discussed when measures in detail were brought before them. The policy of the Government was Hot put forward as a new policy. It was, as bad bsea correctly ssiid, the policy of 1858, which— -ba"d~liitherto lain dormant, now brought into active vitality. He (the Attorney General) thought it wiser to adopt plans which, had been already matured and sanctioned by the Legislature, than to attempt new inventions. In reference to the finaucial bearing of Sir George Grey's plans on the interests of the colony, he pointed out that, taking the rough estimated cost of these plans at £50,000 a year, that amouuc was not disproportionately large conside ring the total revenue of the Colony, (which this year would exceed £lOO,UOO)t and estimating the numbers of the Native race a about 50,000: or about oue half of the European population. But that sum would be diminished by the contribution offered by Sir George Grey on behalf of the Imperial Government. The present charge for Native purposes amounted to upwards of £20,000, including the annual votes. He disclaimed on the part of the colony, its exclusive liability for the cost of civilizing and governing the Native race, as well as the principal share of the charge of defending it from Native attacks. These were, in part, at least, liabilities of the Imperial Government. At the same time he was convinced that the true interests no less of the Imperial Government than of the Colony, required that there should be no separate administration of Native affairs. Nothing could be more fatal than a return to the old system of double Government, and divided departments, under which Native affairs had been heretofore conducted. If a new, inexperienced Governor were appointed, it would be safer that he should be guided in the management of Native affairs, by his ordinary advisers, than as hitherto by irresponsible persons. At present the case was exceptional. Under a Governor like Sir George Grey — a man of great capacity and great personal experience in Native affairs, it was obvious that the principal direction of Native affairs must l» left with him. Every step indeed now taken involved, possibly, military operations and therefore afleeted imperial interests. Upon, questions of this kind Ministers could not presume to exe.cise control. With respect to Taranaki be (the Attorney General)

expressed his deep sympathy with thai; province. Reference had been made to the claims of the settlers to full compensation of their losses j and the quote which had been appropriated as yet by the Legislature to that object had been justly treated as inadequate. But he reminded the Council that when the grant of .t'25,000 was made by the Assembly in 18G0 there was a kind of express stipulation that this should be regarded as a final settlement of account. That in his opinion precluded the Government from originating any measure for re-opeaing the question. If, however, the feeling of the other branch of the Legislature should be in favour of reopening the question and enlarging the grant, he (the Attorney General) would iudividualiy support any such proposal. As regarded the future destinies of Tarannki, he fully sympathised with the people of that Province in tlieir anxious longing for a termination of their present suspense. A little consideration, would, however, show that any anouncemeat by Ministers at the present moment of specific measures to be adopted would be impossible. If asked what were the views of Ministers, their views were distiuctly recorded in the Minutes submitted to the Governor on his arrival. Their language was this .- ( the Minute which appeared in our last number ), If asked as to Sir George Grey's intentions, his reply must be that no distinct answer can at present be given to such a question. It must rest with Sir G&orge Grey to determine the time and the manner of dealing with the case of Taranaki. Die people of Tarauaki might however, be assured that it was not in Sir Georgo Grey's mind to abandon their interests, or to leave them in their present plight. Meantime, all that had been done since his arrival kadits bearing on the ultimate solution of that difficulty. Progress had been made in restoring the confidence of the Natives and detaching them from the King party. The road to the Waikato would secure Auckland from that quarter. This cleared the way for whatever might be the plan of operations finally decided on for the reinstatement of the Taranaki settlement. H« concluded by bearing testimony \o the wisdom and energy shewn by Sir George Grey in the whole course of his proceedings since his arrival in the Colony. The Address was then unanimously agreed to. May it please your Excellency,-— We, her Majesty's most dutiful aud loyal subjects, the Legislative Council of New Zealand, beg leave to return our thanks to your Excellency for the Speech with which you have been pleased to open the present Session of the General Assembly. We avail ourselves of the present opportunity of recording our deep and earnest sympathy with Her Most Gracious Majesty in the great calamity which has fallen upon tier and the nation at large, in the death of his Royal Highness the Prince Consort. We recognize gratefully the motives which have induced your Excellency, in undertaking the Government of the Colony at the present difficult crisis, to forego personal considerations and incur personal sacrifices for the sake of discharging a high public duty. We assure your Excellency that we will devote our earnest attention to the various subjects which may be submitted by you for our consideration, in a spirit of hearty co-operation, with an earnest desire, so far as in us lies, to give effect to measures conducive to the prosperity and advancement of both races of her Majesty's Subjects in these Islands. We acknowledge in common with your Excellency the great Mercy of Almighty God vouchsafed in the recent escape from shipwreck of many valuable Members of the Legislature. We acknowledge gratefully the geuerous hospitality extended to them on that occasion. We unito with Your Excellency in praying that ia the exercise of our Legislative lunctions the Divine blessing may guide our deliberations, and prosper our work. LIGHT-HOUSES IN FOVEAUX STBAITS. Mr. MENZIES in moving for a '• Return of the correspondence between the Colonial Secretary and the Provincial Government of Southland with reference to lighthouses in Foveaux Straits" explained that his object in making this motion was to ascertain the views of Government, aud .what was proposed to be done by them with reference to this subject. In August last, the Provincial Council of Southland directed their attention to this subject and obtained reports from many com' manders of vessels frequenting the Straits, which had since been forwarded to the General Government. It was shown by these reports that lights in the Straits were £ very much wanted, that the navigation was dangerous, subjects to heavy gales and thick weather ; and that there were several reefs and shoals in the Straits. There were important interests at stake, as the greatest part, perhaps nine-tenths of the traffic to Otago and Southland passed through Foveaux Straits and this traffic was rapidly increasing. By the official returns it was shown that in the quarter ending December 31, 1860, 25 ships, of 9,430 tons, traded to Otago and Southland; in the quarter ending 31st December, 1861, the number of ships was 143, tonnage 61,210: The exports for 1860 were £55,620; for 1801 they amounted to £852,690. The imports for 1860 were £3-25,162 ; for 1861, they were £931,320. The Customs Revenue for the quarter ending 31st December, 1860, was £9,369 ; for the quarter ending 31et December, 1861, £41,481. He thought these facts were sufficient to nbew the importance of the subject and tke necessity for providing Lighthouses in the Straits. The Attobney-General in agreeing to the motion, quite concurred with his hon. friend in the importance of the question, and the necessity of providing lighthouses for Foveaux Straits. The question of erecting lighthouses on the coasts of New Zealand was one which had engaged the serious attention of the Government, and the chief difficulty they had to contend with was that of providing the necessary funds. As to the management of the lighthouses, he thought they ought to ba placed under local marine boards, subject to the supervision of a General Board. He intimated that it was the intention of the Government to originate a measure on the subject. COURT OF APPEAL. The Attorney-General by leave postponed the second reading of this Bill, and moved thai; it be an order of the day for Monday next. LIMIT TO MEMBERS, Dr. Mbnzies by leave, amended his notice of motion for Monday next by leaving out the words, " ana that the Government be requested to brinft in a Bill to effect that object. Ou the motion of the Attorney-General the Council adjourned to Monday.