THE Wellington Independent Saturday, July 26, 1862. YESTERDAY'S ASSEMBLY.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVII, Issue 1745, 26 July 1862, Page 2

THE Wellington Independent Saturday, July 26, 1862. YESTERDAY'S ASSEMBLY.

The House met at twelve noon. The Hon. the Colonial Secretary moved the following resolution : —

" That while this House disclaims, on thej part of the Colony, tlie exclusive responsibility of the cost of educating, civilizing, and governing the Native race ; while it equally disclaims liability for the principal share of the cost of suppressing insurrections of a people over whom the Imperial Government has never practically established the authority of law : it will at all times cheerfully recognise its duty to co-operate to the extent of its ability and means with Great Britain for the attainment of these objects, so essential to the welfare of the Colony ; and in conformity with these views it is of opinion that the interests of the Imperial Government and of the Natives themselves, as well as of the Colony, require that (reserving to the Governor both the initiation and the decision of questions where Imperial interests are concerned), the ordinary conduct of Native affairs should be placed under the administration of Responsible Ministers." He had little to say more than he had said on previous occasions. The House was asked to lay down a broad basis for the relationship between Hia Excellency and the Ministry. There was no other couise f>>r carrying on the Government, except for the Colony to take the whole responsibility. The government of the Natives and Europeans could not be carried on separately. He entered fully on the subject, quoting largely the opinions he expressed on Wednesday evening. The resolution expressed the thorough conviction of the Ministry, and from the quotations he had I made from His Excellency's despatches, it would i be seen that it embodied His Excellency's views also. Mr. FitzGerald objected to the resolution, because it did not go far enough. The House was looking at the matter in a purely money view. He fully agreed with the Ministry in their Native policy, but he objected to limiting their responsibility. The House was entitled to claim full responsibility. Mr. Mooiutouse objected because the motion went too far. The Natives had hitherto been treated as children, talked to in the language of the nursery. He should be sorry to see the Ministry go out, but he altogether differed with their Native Policy. Mr. O'Neill believed the policy would fail, but thought they ought to giro it a fair trial, Mr. Colknso, the Colonial Treasurer and several other Members having addressed tho Honse, the debate was adjourned at haif-past two until seven o'clock. On the House re-assembling at seven o'clock, Mr. Jollie said, tho Imperial Government having hitherto held the entire management of Native affairs, it was not politic for the colony now to take upon itself the responsibility of Native government The present evils commenced with the Treaty of Waitangi, and had been complexed by the action of the Govenors sent out by the Home Government. Governor Biowne alone had done his duty ; but it appeared to him that on tho advent of tho present Governor the Ministry were justified in not carrying out tho terms of peace offered by Governor Browne. Ministers having accepted office under those terms were however bound to have appealed to the country when those terms were set aside by Governor Grey, and obtained the opinion of the country on. the question of responsibility, The present policy required Sir George Grey's presence and influence ; in the hands of another Governor it would fail, with or without Ministerial Responsibility. He preferred giving the Governor the supplies ho asked, and leaving the responsibility to him. [ Mr. Weld would assume for the moment that there was no differences on Native affairs. At the very commencement of the colony tho Government so acted as to raise the suspicion of the natives towards the settlers ; and now whatever Governor or ministry should assume power, tho task was so difficult, that he should consider him to be a truly great man who could save the native race. It would now be madness, it would be an overwhelming misfortune to give the colony the full management of native affairs. The treaty of Waitangi was a Bham, a trap to catch natives — if it had not been he should have felt bound to have supported it to the utmost. Tho Home Government would have been justified in at first taking the sovereignty of tho country and imposing law ; but settlers alone could never have assumed sovereignty, and can now only be loyal subjects — not assuming the control which solely rests with the Home Government. As the settlers cannot say we will take the whole burden upon us, don't let us preteud to do it. Mr. Gillies as the sole representative of 20,000 British colonists was entitled to the attention of the House ; but on this question he spoke as the representative of the colony. Ho would treat tho question apart^ from pecuniary principles. He thanked the ministry for bringing the question in an honesfc and straightforward manner before them, and they deserved to be met in the. same fair and honest spirit, and not by a mere negation. If the question is to be a ministerial question, he was not prepared to turn them out, nor was any other person or party ; he desired to put before the House simply his own mind. There were three positions: 1. that we accept no responsibility, nor liability ; 2. that we accept the whole responsibility and liability : 8. an indefinite one, a middle, course, neither taking all the responsii bility nor all the liability. Now, aa ministers had

declared that what was an Imperial interest could not be always defined, he objected to the middle course ; he would rather accept a defined responsibility than an undefined one. Heretofore under ' the Acts of 1858, they were only responsible for the mon ey to carry them out, At present that responsibility was ifiOO.OJO : but another Ministry or Governor might make it what they pleased. If they took the whole responsibility, it might be that British support, though eventually given, would be at the last hour of need — after they had first reached the situation of the Taranaki people ; and if they got into a scrape, they could not be surprised if the British Government came to their help tardily. He denied that they were trustees for the Natives, but they were certainly forced as brothers to raise them from the same degradation in which their own ancestors once were. The treaty of Waitangi was made between the Natives and the Queen, and the Queen bad no power to hand over her responsibility either to the Queen of Spain or to the Colonists. The Queen must fulfil her own obligations. They had not to deal with Mr. FitzGerald's theories, hut with realities. The Home Government had not placed them in posi. tion of trustees, and the House should not ask it. He believed the House should disclaim responsibility, but at the same time vote the Governor the supplies he ask,s for. If they made Ministers responsible and Ministers did wrong, then the House would be guilty of that wrong ; rather let them leave the policy without discussion to the Governor, giving him the money and asking no questions. It was not for them to throw obstacles in the Governor's way. He believed any policy would bo successful in the hands of Sir George Grey ; and he ought to have whoever he liked to help him-— the present Ministry woald willingly assist him, if they believed in the soundness of the policy, as they affirmed they did. There were lions in every path, but he could Bee none in the course he proposed ; leaving the Ministry to manage European affairs and the Governor Native affairs. Now was the day of trial; the Colony was on the verge of being torn asunder, and certainly would be if European affairs were neglected for the search after Maori doctors. He trusted that the distant cry would not grow so loud as to divide the Colony ; but vow was the time to prevent it, or not at all. Mr. Bell regretted Mr. Bichmond's absence The Legislation of 1858 was now sought by many around him to be totally changed. The principles then ennunciated were very different to those, he was so unfortunate as ti have just heard. True peace then reigned, and war had since raised an ill-feeling, but it was idle to say that the changes necessitated a departure from the principles of the acts of 1558, — a departure which he trusted would not take place. It was because he foresaw that difficulties would exist when the present Governor arrived, that he moved the resolutions of 1861, on which ministers had up to this time acted. He wondered how any ministers, especially any native minister, could forget the difficulties imposed by the native office. Mr. McLean, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Rogan who were at the head of the native office were as good men as could anywhere lie found for certain duties, but they could never understand the feeling of the Colonists in asking for the transfer of native affairs to themselves. The Native Office plan was to do nothing, propose nothng", and leave matters to take the'.r own course. When Governor Grey arrived he found that the resolutions of 1801 gave him power to direct, with the certainty that his directions would be carried out by his ministry with the immediate action they sometimes required. If you now want the Governor to carry out his native government by a native department he was quite sure none of those three gentlemen he had mentioned would enter it. Having passed the resolutions of last session and thereby induced Sir G. Grey to act upon them, could we now aak him. to set the policy therein indicated aside. Opponents should define what they mean by responsibility, the great mind of VV. C. Richmond failed to define it, and there was no one in the House now with capacity enough to do it. It was a pleasant fiction to suppose that define a3 they might, any Native Minister would rule in native affairs while Sir George Grey was in the country, or even pretond to know his Excellency's mind. Imperial and Colonial interests — European and Native interests — were so mixed up that he defied any one to separate them. They were mixed up in. the Kaipara feud; they were mixed up in the Waikato road, and it was impossible for the Governor, Ministry or any one else to separate the relative interests. In these and a hundred others, ministers were required to give advice, and it would indeed be a sham if they were so bound and tied as to allow natives to govern European affairs. It was impossible to get entire responsibility, and it was impassible to withhold responaibility — the control of the Queen's troops for instance would never be taken out of the Governor's hands and put into those of the Ministry. The House owed to the Taranaki settlers never to give up its responsibility and tell them to go to the Governor for redress. They had voted a paltry 625,000 to be divided among them, but they were never going to turn them over to one man, as was proposed to do by negativing the motion'beforethem, even though that man be Sir George Grey. Mr. Bell concluded his very able and argumentative speech amidst loud applause.

Major Bicuardson was surprised that the member for Wallace (Mr. Bell) should have cast a sneer at those who were safe and rich, and if the motion was confirmed that night it would be out of the power of the Houae to control Sir Gr. Grey ; and the foulest blot on England's escutcheon, the position of the Taranaki settlement, would be continued for no one could say how much longer. He believed the Treaty of Waitangi was the greatest sham that was ever perpetrated, and we were at this day reaping ita bitter fruits. He had shown faith in his Excellency's ability, and would be willing to vote any amount he could, if thereby he did no injustice to those of the colonists who earned their bread by the sweat of the biow.

Captain Atkinson thanked the Houae for its sympathy and liberality. He did not wish the Ministry to quit their bench ; they were the symbols of peace in the eyes of the world, though he did not think they were any more a peaceparty than those who occupied it before them ; and he wished the present pian to have a fair trial. The Taranaki members recently applied for an interview with His Excellency, because they felt disappointed at that Province not being mentioned in the Opening Speech, when His Excellency told thorn it must not be a precedent, that he must in future refer them to his Ministers. His Excellency told them that the settlement of the Taranaki question depended on his Ministry and the House. If the Taianaki question was not an Imperial question (one ef those which the Governor was to take upon himself) |he did not know what was. Mr. J. C. Riohmoxd having spoken at some length, the debate was adjourned, at 11 o'clock, until Monday, at 12 noon.