THE Wellington Independent Thursday, July 24, 1862. YESTERDAY'S ASSEMBLY

Wellington Independent, Volume XVII, Issue 1744, 24 July 1862, Page 2

THE Wellington Independent Thursday, July 24, 1862. YESTERDAY'S ASSEMBLY

I The House met at 5 p.m. Mr. Carter presented a petition praying for increased postal arrangements, from settlers on the eastern side of the Wairarapa lake. The Colonial Secretary laid on the table particulars of cases lost in the White Swan. Mr. Fitzgerald gave notice of a series of resolutions on native subjects. Major Richardson. not being satisfied with the explanations of the Colonial Secretary last night intended to press the following motion : — " That this House should be informed, so far as may be consistent with any present or prospective Military arrangements, what measures are proposed to be adopted towards the Taranaki and Ngatiruanui tribes, with reference to the murde , of unarmed British European subjects, and als 1 with reference to the destruction of the homo steads and plunder oi the property of the inha ' bitants of the Province of Taranaki. Although a Southern member he felt a deep sympathy with the Northern Island, and because he did so, he had brought the motion forward. He was an independent member, and did not act in a spirit of hostility to the Government, and paid a high compliment to the Government for the frankness with which documents had been placed before them, every kind for and against — had been submitted with a fairness he had scarcely ever seen equalled. The impression left on his mind on reading them was that of a harmonious discord ; in relation to the relative position regards native affairs. When war was first com* menced it was made by the late Governor, and on him the responsibility rested, and he was bound to express the highest gratification at the manly manner in which that Governor had acted. He felt equally bound to thank Ministers for the frank and excellent advice which they had given to Sir George Grey in their published minute, and also for their equally frank and honorable financial advice in a further minute published in the same paper. The sentiments given therein were as honorable to Ministers as they could possibly give. Turning to the views entertained by Sir G. Grey, he found him writting to the Duko of Newcastle that there was no possibility of making treaties with the Taranaki Natives, If a settlement of difficulties was to be made, with persons such as these, he (Major Rs.) could not understand how it ever could be accomplished. Another despatch gave the impression that the responsible advice which Ministers had agreed to give, legitimately implied that the colony was to bear the expense of future wars. This was a position he could not consent to accept. The Duke of Newcastle's despatches particularly guarded Sir G. Grey from making a tern porary peace, or one which showed weakness, He(Major IM could only regard those instructions as. obliging the Governor to make no peace while settlers continued to be unable to go upon their lands, aa is now the case with the settlers of the Tataraimaka Block. The conclusion which ho arrived at, fiom a careful reading of the despatches was, that he was in a mist, — he could not tell who was now responsible for peace or war. When the hour of pecuniary reckoning came, lie believed our reliance on Imperial generosity would ont be misplaced ; but it was one thing to depend on Imperial generosity, aud another to assume responsibilities which place us out of the pale of demanding Imperial support. He objected to the assumption of Ministerial responsibility in native matters, Alluding to the notice, of Mr. Fitzgerald, given that evening, he agreed that the raaories should he represented, but he thought that would be best done by putting them into a seperate Province and make the King a Superintendent—and ■ nothing could bo more harm, less than he would then be. The Native Policy, as far as it went, was excellent ; but he did not think that it would answer the object contemplated. He had heard of tribal rights, but were there not tribal duties ; and he thought that tribes should be punished if they refused to give up those who had plundered our settlers. He then gave some instances in his own experience in India, to the effect that when the British flag had been tarnished it had been immediately cleansed, producing in the time of England's future need most satisfactory effects. He wished to know whether roads were to be made in Taranaki, because if so his Taranaki friends might conclude that the day star had arisen. Put and carried.

Major Richardson then simply moved the second and following resolution.

" That this House should be informed, as far as may be consistent with any present or prospective Military arrangements, what measures are proposed to be adopted towards enabling the $tvners of property in the Tataraimaka Block in the Province of Taranaki, to return to their homes from which they are still debarred by the unsatisfactory nature of the relations arising between tlie Goverment and her Majesty' Native subjects residing to the southward in that Province."

The Colonial Secretary spoke to a point of order, by which he would be prevented from replying. Thb Speaker said that when tho House had resolved that it was desirable to obtain informa tion which the motions asked for, the Col. Secretary could then give that information whenever he thought fit — now or at a future day. Mr. Gillies trusted the Government would not let the House affirm these resolutions, without some notice of them being taken by the Ministry.

Mr. Fitzgerald pointed out that the first mo tion having been carried without opposition, it was tantamount to their willingness to give the information, they ought to be allowed to do so when they thought best. It would be out of order to do so until the motion before them had been carried.

Mr. Weld had not had time to master the mass of papers before him. He would explain the stoppage of ■ the Auckland road alluded to last night. (Mr. Stafford here wispered to Mr. Weld.) His Hon. friend would explain that, he would only therefore say that what Governor Browne could not do when only a few troops were at Auckland, could be done by that concentration of the troops, which the Governor had intended to make. On the gravest question of all— the position which ministers held towards his Excellency — further information was required, and must be given before they could discuss native questions at all. He would not care anything about his not acting consistently with his former views : he thought it necessary that the Ministry should fix their status with the Governor and obtain the consent of the House ; and he would judge of it without refereuce to party The Postmaster General would give the information desired by the last speaker. It was undoubtedly the fact that tlie position of ministers was undoubtedly different towards His Excellency to that which ministers had under the previous Governor ; but it was different only as far as the House had formerly resolved, and no farther; The resolution of the House last year, or rather that portion of it which related to the desired responsibility of ministers was as follows :—

" That the committee, therefore, declare their conviction that the time has arrived when it is necessary that a thorough and radical change should be made in the organization of the Land Purchase Department. "That an iudispensible step to reform must be the total separation, so often insisted upon by- the House of Representatives, between land purchasing and political functions, so that, as far as the inherent difficulties of tho case will permit, no Officer of the Land Purchase Department- should ever be engaged in political duties. •'That any re-construction of the Land Purchase Department on a satisfactory basis _ necessarily involves also an entire re-organisation of the political branch of that Service, and that no such re -organization will be effectual or satisfactory to tho country which docs not, while fully recognizing and securing to the Governor both the initiative and the decision where Imperial interests are involved, place the conduct of the ordinary^ business of Native administration under responsibility to the Assembly." The Government were prepared to submit resolutions on the subject for the consideration of the House.

Mr. Bell explained the resolutions above re • ferred to. Ministers were to represent to Sir George Grey, on arrival, that they would not take responsibility in European, without equal responsibility in Native matters. Ministers had fairly carried that instruction out, aa he could tes.ify. He had moved the resolution above quoted and in its spirit and limitation he and the Ministry were thoroughly one. While Sir George Grey was iv the country it was absurd to expect complete Ministerial responsibility in Native affairs. It was therefore desirable io settle the position which the Governor and Ministry should mutually hold. Mr. Stafford admitted that the resolution quoted was a justification ; nay that Ministers were bound to act upon it with a view to the sweeping away of the Native department. _ Yet the position of responsibility between Ministers and the Governor in the future remained to be determined, and he would assist to the utmost in defining it, in the same spirit in which Mr. Ward had said Ministers intended to introduce it. There could be no feeling now that! there was any great unreality or sham behind. He trusted that until the responsible relations had been settled, no large native questions would be brought before them. He objected to the extracts read last night as giving a view which tho con tax t would not warrant, and wondered how the Ministers could be satisfied with the result of the progress which ! had been made. They were indeed satisfied with very little. He then entered very fully into the question of responsibility in Nativo affairs, affirm- ! ing that only the Imperial Government and that House could ratify such a contract; and concluded by assuring the Ministers that every possible information on Native matters was required and must be given. The Colonial Secretary kissed the rod administered by the last speaker. He defended the course pursued by himself last night. He had made his statement simply vith the view of affording information, and had hoped that members would have expressed their opinions on the subjects then alluded to— in tact, have initiated discussion on the whole question. He was prepared to answer Major Richardson's motions when carried and put to him as questions, lie had no desire to keep back anything; he ventilated tlie Native question last night with a view to give all information in his power. He appealed to what he' had said on "responsibility " last night, showing" that ho considered that it was for the House to affirm or disavow the arrangements made with the Governor. He thought still that it would not bo wise to define too closety, but would place a notice on the paper to-morrow. He had never intended to shut out the House from considering the subject. If Major Richardson on the motions being carried would put the questions they contained to-morrow, he would be happy, to reply to them. Put and carried. The CoLdNiAL Treasurer was prepared to postpone the Budget until the great question of the relation between His Excellency and the ministry was settled ; but would go on with it if desired, lie would at the suggestion of lion, members go into Committee of Supply simply asking for a vote of credit, which being recommended, the House passed on to the orders of the day, out of which nothing important arose, and the House adjourned.