PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Wellington Independent, Volume XVII, Issue 1730, 3 June 1862, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Wednesday, May 28. The Speaker took the chair at 5 o'clock. Present, 24 members. Absent, Mr. Hunter and Mr. Fawcett. POUND AT TE ARO. Captan Rhodes moved the House into Committee of Supply, for the purpose of moving : — " That a respectful Address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the Estimates a sum of money not exceeding £40 for the erection of a Public Pound near the Lock-Up, Te Avo." Mr. Spinks aud Air. Weight supported the motion. The Commissioner of Crown Lands suggested that instead of near the Lock-up, " in some con. venient place at Te Aro," should be substituted. Amendment accepted, and motion agreed to. BRUNSWICK ROAD, WANGANUI. Mr. Watt then moved, — "That -a respectful Address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent requesting him to place upon the Estimates the sum of £'300 as a special Grant for the Brunswick road, Wanganui." He said the settlers in the district had taxed themselves so high as Is. 3d. per acre for making the road in question, and that they had never received any special grant from the Government as had been the case at other places. The Bonnie Glen for example which had raised .£IOO by local taxation and received .£2OO from the Government, as well as a j special grant for £300 more, making a total of i'soo received from the Treasury to £100 paid by the district. The Commissioner of Crown Lands said that if they had raised a rate they would have received *g'2 from the Government, for every £1 they con- H tributed themselves. After some further discussion in which several hon. members took part, and which covered an I extent of country from the Brunswick road to the Wairarapa, the motion wa3 agreed to. SITTINGS AT THREB O'CLOCK. The motion of Mr. Turn-bull that the sittings of the Council during the remainder of the session should commeace at three o'clock, was carried on a division by a majority of sixteen against six ; Messrs. Borlaso, Crawford, Johnston, Stokes, Spinks, and Wright voting against it. THE ESTIMATES. The Council then resolved itself into Committee of Supply to consider the Estimates. MATEHAWA BOARD. On the sum of £300 being proposed as a special grant for this Board, Mr. Allison explained the roason why the grant was asked for. ' The Provincial Treasurer said that at present <ihe road was to all intents and purposes a district road, and had received the same amount of consideration from the Government as other district roads had done. Mr. Carter objected to the grant, and thought that other districts that could make out as good a case would be equally entitled to special grants. The Government had not an unlimited supply of money at its disposal. Motion agreed to without a division. WELLINGTON MECHANIC'S INSTITUTE. The sum of £150 was proposed for this Institute when the Crown Land Commissioner said that he could not sanction the grant in its present shape. Ho would supplement the local efforts

made to estSbligh public libraries with a view to education by grants in aid, but then it must be in accordance with some defined rule and under certain defined conditions. Captain Smith could not support the motion. Mr. Stokes could hardly conceive an institution more worthy of a grant from the Council. He did not aak for an annual grant, but for the Council to supplement by a small grant the strenuous efforts that had been made to make the Institute now useful, and by means of which A' LOO had been subscribed. The Institute had I never received any support from the Council. ' Mr. Spinks and Mr. Duncan both earnestly supported the motion ; and tke latter pointed out how small was the sum granted by the Government for educational purposes. If the other districts could show as good a claim, he would be happy to support it. There was nothing so entitled to the favorable consideration of the Council, as Institutions devoted to the educational advancement of the people. - j The Provincial Treasurer would suggest that some hon. member should ask for a general grant to be applied in supplementing the amounts that might be from time to time contributed by the different local institutions. Mr. Allen said it was his intention to have voted for the £150, but seeing how the matter now stood, he should oppose the grant as he did not think it would be prudent to comply with the motions now before the House. As the Wellington Athenaeum had subscribed £100 for the special purpose, he should not object to an j equivalent amount being paid out of the Treasury to supplement it ; and so with the institutions established or to be established in other localities. Mr. Carter had seconded the proposition when first brought forward, and believing that the Institute here was an exceptional case rather than see it negatived, he would be willing to withdraw his motion with reference to Greytown. If aid was not afforded to the Wellington Institute it would have to be closed, which would not make a very favorable impression on the minds of members* from the other Provinces during the meeting of the General Assembly. He might mention that the Wellington members when at Auckland, had free access to the Mechanic's Institute there ; and he thought that we should be in a position to afford Auckland members similar privileges. Mr. MoEwen asked how it came about that this populous City of Wellington, could not support au Institution of the kind without asking aid from the Government. If Wellington was entitled to a grant than every other district in the Province was entitled to one ; and on that account he should not withdraw his motion. Mr. Watt said that members of the General Assembly would have no time to attend Mechanic's Institutes, and he thought that if shut up at any time it should be shut up during the session. The Commissioner of Crown Lands suggested that the better course would be to give £50 for the purchase of additional books, periodicals and newspapers for the Council Library. If they assented to the vote as it stood they would bo furnishing an inconvenient precedent. Mi«. Schultze would move as an amendment that tha sum be £100 to supplement an equivalent amount which had been already subscribed. ■HJhe Commissioner of Crown Lands said that by assenting to the amendment they would be at once giving in their adhesion to a novel principle. Any body of gentlemen who subscribed amongst themselves £10 for periodicals and newspapers would be asking for an equal contribution from the Government. He would amend the motion thus — " Mechanic's Institute £100 i n contemplation of the approaching session ot the General Assembly." Mr. McEwen moved— "That the item be struck out, and the Committee divided. Ayes 7. McEwen, Allison, Watt, Bryce, Whitewood, Buck, Johnston. Noes 17. Fitzherbert, Stokes, Brandon, Woodward, Barton, Schultze, Crawford, Rhodes, Duncan, Turnbull, Taylor, Allen, Wright, Smith, Spinks, Borlase, Carter. The motion was then agreed to. On a similar sum being proposed for the Hutt Institute, the Committee divided. Ayes 7. McEwen, Buck, Bryce, Whitewood, Allison, Watt, Wright. Noes 15. Motion consequently ne tived. On a similar sum being proposed for the Mechanic's Institute Wanganui, a long and animated discussion took place, Mr. Watt accusing the members of the Executive of having treated the country members unfairly ; and of obtaining a grant to the Wellington Institute by a side wind. Mr. Fitzherbert challenged the hon. gentleman in the presence of the Couucil to say that he had led him or any other hou. member to pursue a course and then betrayed them. Mr. Watt said that with regard to Mr. Fitisherbert personally his remarks did not apply, but to other members of the Executive, and he would take care in future that all business he had to do with the Executive, should be done in the House and in the presence of its members. It was eventually proposed that the items for Wanganui, Greytown, Porirua and Karori, bo withdrawn, upon which the Committee divided. Ayes 15. Noes 7. Watt, Buck, Allison. Whitewood, McEwen Bryce, Duncan. The motion was consequently' lost. The sum placed on the Estimates for Ferry bells, &c, was increased from £200 to 400; and the item for miscellaneous contingonces from £400 to £1000, when the Committee reported progress and asked leave to sit again to-morrow. The Council then adjourned. Thursdat May 29. The Council met at 3 o'clock. Present at that hour, Messrs. Allen, Allison, Barton, Bryce, Buck, Carter, Duncan, Fawcett, Fitzherbert, McEwen, Spinks, Turnbull, Tayloi , Wright, Whitewood and Woodward. On the motion of Mr. Fitzherbert, Mr. Waring Taylor, in the absence of Mr. Shultze, was appointed acting Speaker. Mr. Fitzherbert laid on the table a report from Mr. Bragg the officer in charge of the deep water jetty showing the groundlessness of a. complaint made by an hon. member against the Contractors, which was ordered to be printed, and which we inserted in our last? immigrants' promissory notes. Mr. Wmght asked the Provincial Treasurer — " What steps the Government propose taking for the collection of Immigrants' Promissory Notes and guaranteed passages now overdue, agreea ble to previous resolution, and on what ground the Government anticipate receiving £2000 for the current year, which during the past twelve months has only amounted to £Gl3 j7.s. 3d. from the same sonrce." The Provincial Tkeasurer said his reply should be brief but satisfactory. It was the intention of tie Government to press the payment of the promisory notes in every case to press for the completion of the contract entered into when these promossary notes were given — except in such cases in which it was known that it was utterly impossible for parties to meet their engagements. Under these eifcuinstancos the Government felfc they were justified in believing that at any rate £2000 would be collected during the current year. (Hear, hear.) HOOKS FOR THE LUNATIC ASYLUM AND GAOL. On the motion of Mr. Taylor, ably supported by Mr. Turn-bull the following motion was agreed to—" That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent requesting that he will cause the sum of £35 to be placed on the Estimates for the formation of Libraries for the Gaol at Wellington and the Asylum at Karori. POUIRUA ROAD. In the absence of Mr. Johnston Mr. Wright moved that the following resolution should be placed at the bottom of the Orders of the Day — " That a respectful address be presented to his

Honor the Superintendent requesting him. to pla^e a sum. not exceeding £200 the Estimates for tin Repair of the Porirua lioad, between Kai Waira vvarra and Johnvilie, in aeordance with the petition of E. Battersbee and others." DOG NUISANCE. Mr. Duncan obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Dog Nuisance Act, which which was read a first time, ordered to beprinted, to be read a second time on Friday. EBDEN'S PBTrTION. I The following motion by Mr. McEwbn wr I agreed to on the condition that the road in que tion should be a public road — " That the Repo of the Committee on the Petition of VV. Ebden I taken into consideration, — and that a respectft address be presented to his Honor the Superinte) dent requesting him to place on the Estimates tl sum of £20 in order to carry out the suggestion the aforesaid Committee." The Education Reserves, the Wanganui Strer . I and the Wanganui Eace Course Bills were eaua read a third time and passed, STEVENS' PETITION. The evidnece taken on Stevens' Petition Com « mittee was ordered to be printed before taking into consideration the recommendations contained in the Committee's report. SCAB AMENDMENT BILL. The House then went into Committee on this Bill and after considerable discussion, eighteen clauses were read, amended, and agreed to. The Committee then reported progress; to sit again to-morrow. TOWN BOARD BILL. . . Mr. Stokes moved the second reading of this Bill, and in doing so, referred to the Sewerage Bill which had once been brought into operation in one part of the town, but which had failed to give satisfaction, and had to be repealed , partly owing to the complicated machinery of the Bill itself and partly to the heavy rates it authorised to be imposed. To the present Bill the same objections could not be made which had been made to the Sewerage Bill he referred to, and to the Corporation Bill, of the lion, member Mr. Wallace ; many of the provisions of which were complicated, cumbrous, and obsolite. The voluntary principle under which the town was managed imposed heavy ;burdens in an unequal manner; pressing upon the willing contributor but letting off the unwilling party, who was equally interested and benefitted by town improvements, scot free . He did not bring th& Bill forward in any dogmatic spirit, or with a desire to carry out any peculiar views of his own. The Bill was in fact based upon an Act which had been for some time in operation in Nelson, and was theie found to work well, and give general satistaction. He would mention that it had been brought under the notice of the Provincial Executive, and that they did not disapprove of it. The BUI provided for the election of six commissioners, two for each ward, to remain in office two years, and for whom every rate-payer was entitled to vote. Under the 2nd clause of the Bill, the boundaries of the town included the harbor reserves, but excluded the Town Belt, as it was thought to be inexpedient to impose rates upon the tenants of the Belt as the rents received from them would go into the town chest. Though the Bill divided the town itito three wards it might be found desirable to have only two wards ; but as this was a matter of detail he would not at this stage further advert to it. In the event of the rate-payers refusing to make a rate or a ward to elect commissioners the : Bill made it lawful for the Superintendent to direct a rate to be ma le, not exceeding one penny in the pound, or to nominate commissioners when auy vacancy arose. This clause had been objected to , and he should have no objection to substitutes in Committee the Commissioners for the Superintendent. Tiie Bill provided that the Commissioners should receive no salary; but they would have to appoint a paid Surveyor, who, he would suggest should be also secretary to the Board, and their duties he would submit were not more onerous than those now voluntarily undertaken by the Committees of the Land and Building Societies, who received no salary. He thought that if in a self-working institution of this kind the Commissioners were to commence by paying themselves, a bad precedent would be established; and he believed that there were a sufficient number of competent men who would be found here, as at Nelson, to do the duties without salary. The Bill gave the Board power within the limits of the city to make and keep in repair all streets, foot paths, and bridges; to execute works of public utility, and to make and cleanse drains, sewers, and water courses. The Board was also empowered to make regulations for the protection of the town against fire, and to exercise the powers given under the Town Protection Act. In short while the machinery was ample it was simple ; it being thought better not to overload the Board with powers in the first instance, but to set it going on a simple plan, and afterwards other powers, if it was thought expedient, could be given to it. The Bill did not take the Reclaimed Land under its control, but it authorised rates to levied upon such portions of it as might from time to time be sold. Had he attempted to have done otherwise the opposition to the Bill would have been too great to have allowed him to hope to pass it in the present Council, and besides the question ot endowments had been settled by the Government promising to give a Grant in Aid equivalent to the amount raised by local taxation. Nor did the Bill interfere with the wharf or its management, as he thought that the wharfage fees ought to go to pay the interest and principal on the money it cost in constructing. The funds of the Board were to be raised by rates on the estimated value to sell of the lands and tenements rated thereto, not. exceeding 2d. in the. pound. The rate to be paid by the occupier, and in ease there shall be no occupier, then. by the owner. Under the 43rd clause Government land, Native Reserves, and lands set apart for public purposes, or public worship, were exempt, and he thought, when these were excluded that a a rough estimate the property of the town, liable to be rated, was worth ±'500,000 ; which at a rate of Id. in the pound would realize £2000, and this would be supplemented by a grant from the Treasury of £2000 more. The rent from the Town Belt might be estimated at £500, and the value of prison labor at £500 ; so that in round nnmhers i'sooo would be annually at the disposal of the Commissioners and he thought that with such a sum they would be able to make considerable improvements. The objection made against the clausa in the Bill giving power to the Superintendent to levy a rate in the event of the 1 rate-payers refusing to do so, might be obviated by inserting a clause to the effect that the Bill should not come into operation, except on memorial from the inhabitants ; but as it would be understood that if there was no rate thera would be no grant in aid, he did not think that a rate would be refused. Afcer some further remarks the hon. gentlemen concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time ; it altogether depended upon.the work being confided to competent persona whether it produceel discord or harmony, did mischief, or promoted the health, convenience, and comfort of the inhabitants. Mr. Wallace seconded the motion. The Commissioner op Crown Lands thought that was a matter of congratulation that the town members had agreed that it was right for for the town to assume duties which had been long ago assumed by the country. It was a matter of congratulation also that Sir. Wallace was propared to give his support to the Bill. It showed | he was sincere in his desire togivelocalinstUutions to his constituents, but he would remind the hon. mover, as hehad before reminded thehor {seconder of this motion, that it \vas very easy to pass measnres of the kind, but when passed they would remain a dead letter if they did not embody the wishes of those they wei'e intended for, and by whom they were to be worked. So far as the Government was concerned they had every desire to see the Bill carried through, its present stage but they were by no means to be considered * *

pledged to its every detail. He regarded the present Bill as a compromise between the Corporation Bill of Mr, Wallace and the Eeserves Bill of the Government, and as such he ehould offer no opposition to it. Mr. Fawcett thought that the Bill should have been submitted by the hon. member to his constituents who believed were opposed to it ; and for that reason he should oppose its second reading. , Mr. Spinks would support the „ second reading ; and though he did not agree with all its clauses he approved of the general principles it embodied. Mr. Allen objected to the Bill altogether and should oppose it in all its stages. The rates would be eaten up in the expenses of the Board. He did not believe in Commissioners Bitting up night after night doing public work without pay, and he would not inflict upon others work that he would not like to undertake himself. He objected to the Bill also because it taxed improvements, and had not been asked for by the parties it was intended to benefit.

The Provincial Solicitor would not oppose the BUI in its present stage, though he contended that they had on the Statute book all that this Bill proposed lto give them. He also showed by to a modern Act that the selling of absentees land was not repugnant to, but in accordance with the law of England. Mr. Boelase did not altogether approve of the principle of the Bill but would vote for its second reading. If the town was allowed to have what properly belonged to it, its town belt and. harbor reserves, its Auctioneers and Publicans licenses— no taxation would be required ; and a revenue of £4000 would be had for town management and improvements. He thought two years was too long a term of office for the Commissioners, and that one year was sufficient. He objected to the nominee clauses : if the Bill was so distasteful that thtee persons could not be found to propose and second Commissioners, in each ward it would necessarily be| imperative with or without those clauses. The Bill was a little Corporation Bill and he would leave it to the people to decide whether they would have it or not, Mr. Wbioht did not approve of excluding the the occupiers of the, Town Belt from the town, and of the whole of the rents being expended therein. He considered it would be a great hardship to such occupiers if they were not allowed to have any voice at the Board, or any benefit from it. The PBovmoiAL Tbeasubeb opposed the views of Mr. Borlase and"Mr. Wright, and he thought the great merit of the Bill was that it did not attempt to take for the exclusive use of the town what was in reality part of the general revenue of the Province — revenues which had been mortgaged to the public creditor, and which could not be made over to the town without a breach of faith. If Publicans license fees were given by the Bill to to the town, the Bill he felt sure would never be allowed to become law. While all other districts were willing-to tax themselves for their own improvements , why should Wellington alone be exempted from taxation ? The present Bill waß not a Corporation Bill, and he had a horror of the very name, and sorry he should be if such an effete system was likely to be introduced into this Province.

Mr. Wallace regretted the Provincial Treasurer should have such a dislike to turtle soup and yet have no objection to mock turtle, for those savoury dishes might be said to represent the two Bills. The present Bill was not so complete as he could wish it, yet he hoped the Council would sanction its second reading. It was a Bill which had sprung out of his own, and he could not therefore but view it with some paternal regard. He thought that the town belt should be included in the boundaries of the town, and there were other clauses which he objected to but which he would get some friend to point out when the Bill was in Committee. He did not consider his Bill had been rejected by the electors, but by a lot of boys ; and as for taxation a small section of the community were taxed under the present system for the benefit of the whole instead of all being taxed for the benefit of each which would be more equitable.

Mr. Stokes said that after the very favourable reception the Bill had met with, it would not be necessary for him to trouble the House with any remarks in reply. He thought it had been now sanctioned as a rule by the Council, that those who wanted roads and improvements must help to pay for the ja. This was done already; but under the present system the burden fell unequally on willing shoulders only and not upon the shoulders of all. He should propose a clause in committee to the effect that, the Bill should not be brought into operation until the inhabitants wished it.

The motion was then put and the House divided. Ayes 18; Borlase, Turnbull, Duncan, Buck, Barton, Rhodes, McEwen, Wright, Smith, John ton, Allen, Stokes, Spinks, Crawford, Wallace, Fitzherbert, Carter, and Woodward. Noes 2. Messrs. Allen and Fawcett. Read a second time, and to be committed tomorrow.

The Council then adjourned. TBJDAY, MAY 30. The Council metat Three o'clock, Mr. Waring Taylor Acting Speaker. The Provincial Solicitob obtained leave to bring in a Bill to make further provisions relative to slaughtering cattle within the city of Wellington, which was read a first time.

The Pbovwoial Tbkasubeb brought in the Appropriation Act for the year 1862-3. Mr. Wallace moved for a Return relative to Educational Reserves, which was agreed to. On the- motion of Mr. Wright the report of the Select Committee on James Barnes* Petition was adopted. The Committee report that they have carefully enquired into the merits of the Petition of James Barnes, of Makara, and beg to state that, as set forth in the Petition, the petitioner did on the lfith day of April, 1859, purchase (400) four hundred acres of land in the above district, from the Crown Lands Commissioner, and it does appear that the petitioner has not yet been put in possession of the said land, in consequence of one of the boundaries being Native Land, which boundary it was not within the Province of the Crown Lands Commissioner to order to be laid off, but that of Mr. McLean, the then Land Purchase Commissioner. The committee suggest that His Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested, in his position of Land Purchase Commissioner, to give instructions to have the native boundary surveyed as quickly as possible, that the petitioner may take possession of his land without any farther delay than necessary. The Highway's Act.

The Council then resolved itself into Committee on the Highways Bill when its remaining clauses were read, amended and agreed to. On the Schedule being read which gives to land owners a plurality, of votes, long discussions ensued and various amendments were proposed, it eventually assumed the following shape, under 100 acres 1 vote ; above 100 acres, and under 250 acres 2 votes ; above 250 and under 500 acres 3 votes ; and above 500 acres 4 votes. The Committee then reported progress and asked leave to sit again on Tuesday next. The Loan Bill.

The Provincial Treasurer asked leave for the Loan Bill to be recommitted to enable him to introduce new clauses which would render the sinking fund Bill unnecessary, leave granted, and Bill recommitted. The Provincial Treasurer said that it was intended to provide; in a Loan Bill before them for a Sinking Fund, and in the next session to bring in a sinking fund Bill for the former Loans. It was proposed only to. set aside £1000 per annum for a Sinking Fund for the present Loan and to make its repayment cover a period of 15 instead of ten years. The sum proposed to be set apart will be rather more than sufficient in that time to repay the whole amount, instead of fixing the debentures at the sum of £100 each it was proposed to make the debentures vary in amount from 4*50 to £500. It was proposed that the three commisjioners who should be in charge pf the Sinking

Fund should be appointed by the Superintendent, j but be removal only upon an address caused by the votes of two-thirds of the members of the whola Council. The hon. gentleman regretted that ho did not see Mr. Johnston in his place as however much the cause might lose by having so inefficient an advocate he was not afraid to enter the lists with him, nor did he doubt that he should J be able to prove that his statement that Pittas ' scheme hail failed was in opposition to all authorities who had written upon the subject. David ! Ricardo, in his article on the subject in the Supple- , ment to the Encyclopaeda Britanica did not say that the scheme had failed, but said that there was no possibility of keeping the fund safe, and as he could not see any mode by which this could be accomplished he had come to the conclusion that the scheme must be given up. They had been told by the hon. gentleman to whom be had before alluded that a Sinking Fund must be formed outof surplus revenue,— why this was a self evident proposition as easy of demonstration as any pros blem in Euclid ! But the hon, gentleman lossightofthe fact that while in England there it very rarely any surplus revenue, one half of the revenues of this Province were surplus revenues. Pitt's scheme had not failed from any defeats inherent in it, but owing to the capital set aside under it, having been abstracted, and devoted to other objects. The various clauses of the Bill were then read and after some discussion agreed to. On the amendment of Mr. Borlase the appointment oi the Commissioners was vested in the Governor and his Executive Council instead of in the Superintendent. The Bill as amended was ordered to be printed, and to be read a third time on Tuesday next. Scab Amendment Bill. The House then resolved itself into committee on this Bill when the remaining clauses were read, amended and agreed to. An assessment of |d instead £d was imposed on sheep on the motion of Mr. Carter ; the amendment of Mr Borlase that it be Id, was rejected.

The Committee then reported progress and the House adjourned.