PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVII, Issue 1721, 2 May 1862, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, April 29tb. The Speaker took the Chair at 5 o'clock. ; Present, Messrs. Carter, Smith, Wallace, Spiuks, Fawcett, Whitewood, Borlase, Allen, Duncan, Crawford, Taylor, Wright, Woodward, Filzheiberf, Brandon, Buck, McEwen, Bmton, Stokes, Hunter, Johnston, Rhodes, Watt and Bryce. Petition of Charlus Stevens. Mr. Wright presented the following petition from Charles Stevens of the Porivua district, which was read, received, and ordered to be printed. . To the Honorable the Provincial Council of the Province of Wellington. — The Petition of the undersigned Charles ■ Stevens, of Tukapu t in the Province aforesaid, Farmers Shkweth, — 1. That on the twenty-first day of September, one thousand eight hundred aud fifty-seven, yonr Petitioner purchased from Mr. Fox, then the Crown Lauds Commissioner, at Wellington, one hundred acres in the Tukapu District, being portion of Section number 25 ; and on the llth ;day of January, 1858, he purchased 95 ; acres more, being the remaining portion of the said Section number 25. . . . . ' 2. That your Petitioner at once proceeded to occupy the above land having hadi it previously surveyed by Mr. T. D. McManaway in accordance with ah arrangement entered into at the Land Office, with Mr. Park, the Chief Surveyor. 8. That about March, 1859, when your Petitioner was shingling his house, certain Natives informed him that the homestead was on ground belonging to them;, but believing such to be incorrect, he contented himself with referring them to the Government. 4. That about December, 1860, a Government Survey of the District was in progress by Mr. Anderson ; and about 3 months afterwards, (about March,.. 1861), your Petitioner was informed caiuaily that ho was occupying Maori land. Within a week afterwards, fearing lest there should be a foundation for that remark, he called on Mr. Brandon, and with him waited on Mr. Fitzherbert, the then Commissioner of Grown Lands. Mr. Fitzherbert thereupon informed him that such was the case, that he was occupying Maori land. 5. That on your Petitioner pointing out to Mr. ' Fitzherbert that he had bought the land in the Land Office at Wellington, he promised to request the General Government to appoint a Special Commissioner to purchase it from the Natives, and incompliance with that request, Mr. WardeU,R.M., as your Petitioner was informed, received instructions from Auckland finally to settle the matter. 6. That about the 26th day of May, 1861, Mr. Wardell and Mr. swainson, visited and inspected the pfamises, and held a meeting with the natives ; next day your Petitioner received a letter from Mr. Wardell, informing him that he (Mr, Wardell) had been unable to make terms with, the natives, but, that he had secured to your Petitioner undisturbed possession utjta the end. of the year.

7. That subsequently your Petitioner applied both to the General and Provincial Governments to prevent his being obliged to remove, in consequence of which his Honor the Superintendent called a meeting of the natives interested and endeavoured to persuade them to sell the land, but they refused to do bo.;. He also received a letter from the Hon. Mr. Ward, Crown Lands Secretary, informing him that he could not stay on the land after the end of the term arranged for by Mr. Wardell. , 8 That since then, about February last, Mr. McLean visited the Natives, but the meeting did not have any beneficial result. 9. That after having expended much time, labour, and money on the premises, your petitioner was necessarily obliged to allow the fencing and property to remain unattended to, and to go to ruin ; and although he did not remove on the 3 1st day of December last, as desired, he only holds sufferance possession, and cannot turn the land to account, nor has he been able to do to, since Mr. Fitzherbert first informed him of the dispute. . „ „. ... ,„ „ .. 10. The loss which .your Petitioner has thus suffered has been very great, a losa" which he submits has arisen solely by his occupying land \thich had been sold to him in the Land" Office?' Stfd surveyed under instructions from the Chief Surveyor; and your Petitioner therefore prays your Honorable Council to appoint a Committee to consider the merits of. his case, and grant him such pensation as ina> seem just. ! ; And your Petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever pray &c. . .? \ ' Charles Stevens. The .Commissioner of Crown Lands admitted that the vase brought by the hob. member was a very hard one, and be would: P ro * bably refer the petition to a Select Committee. As a general rule, however, he thought it would be well for the Council to be extremely,guarded in making recommendations for compensation to be granted tor injuries that had -been sustained by individuals through the neglect of officers of. the General Government!, They sbonld be very careful not to burthen ; the. Provincial revenue with claims which ought in jus* tice to be, satisfied by the General Government. He said as a general rule, for he wished to guard himself from having it supposed thai his remarks had reference to the particular , case which had been brought, before them. Returns &c. •• = ..- The Provincial Treasurer laid on the table several financial returns, relative to the Provincial expenditure, which were ordered to be printed; The Commissioner of Crown Lands laid ou the table, the Geological Report of Mr. J. O. Crawford which was ordered to be printed. The following noices or motion were then given. •■■NOTICES OF MOTION. \ Mr. Filzberbert moved — "For.leaTe to bring in a Bill to make provision for the preservation, and protectioH of Trigonometrical Stations, and the boundaries, and survey marks in the province." 7 Leave grauted, read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time on , Friday. Mr. Brandon moved — "For leave to bring in a Bill to provide for the management of the General Cemetery, at Wanganui." Mr. Borlase objected to the principle of this Bill as he thought the board ought ' to be elected by tbe people of Wanganui, who knew more about such a local matter, than His Honor the Superintendent; Mr. WallaSe* concurred with Mr. Borlase ; 'the principle of nomination sanctioned bj the Government, was not iv accordance : with the spirit of those institutions they now tired under. Leave granted, read a first time, to be read a second time on Tuesday. ■:"-/ The Provincial Treasures moved— •" For leave to bring in a Bill to make provision for the payment of a salary to the Auditor, and Deputy-Auditor." Leave granted, read a first time, to be read a second time on Friday. •' The Provincial Treasurer moved— " That, in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable to proceed with the erection of a Custom House and Post Office, on the reclaimed land, Lambton Quay, without delay." Th« Provincial Treasurer stated that be should not have brought this motion forward now except out of consideration to the contractor who asked for this expression of opinion at the earliest possible date in order that he might at once proceed with his contract. Mr. Stokes thought it would be desirable for tbe plans to be laid on tbe table before adopting the motion. Mr. Borlase enquired whe was to pay for the erection of tliese buildings, as be found tbey were for departments not under the Provincial Government. The Province would not oLject to pay its fair share of the cost but be thought thai it was only just that the General Revenue should also be charged with its' fair share. -.; . . 1 . / Mr. Allen had found upon enquiry that though the rents of the Post Office and Custom House were paid by the General Goveniroent, they were ultimately paid out of. the Provincial revenue. ' , . . : The Provincial Treasurer said the Gen« eral Government did ;as it liked. If, they erected these buildings, they would charge the expense against the Provincial revenue., . Mr. Duncan hoped tbe Government would not press the motion to-night, and thought that the reply to His Honor's . address should take precedence of all other mottous, he should be sorry, however, to throw any obstruction in tbe way of carryipg out this .important public un Jertaking. . * « Mr. Spines found there was a great difference in the tenders sent in, and it wars *oot5 : &lway« the lowest tender that proved the cheapest iv the end. He thought that they should agree to .a reply to His- Honor's speech before considering any other motion. . TheCoMMtssioNEß or Crown Lands thought with Mr. Borlase that it was extremely hard for the Provinces to pay the expenses of departments over which they had no control. If the work was executed by the General Government they .would not consult them, and if it cost £2000 or £10,000 in either case, tbe province would have to pay the piper. He had found that, when the members from the other 'Provinces in tbe General Assembly have to vote away Provincial funds, they were not particular in enquiring into tbe amount. He would advise' Mr. Woodward* to put' l the plans and other information in his possession before the Council, as it was only reasonable, before assent*, ing to such a motion, for. the members- to be informed what it was for. \ --J. :'::& The Provincial Treasurer assented to post* pone the motion until Friday. . , .Mr. J. H. Wallace moved— "For a Return of what monies have been expended upon public works in the City of Wellington from the 24th of May, 1861 (the date of jthje last Return), to the present time, excluding reclaiming Land, Lambton Quay, specifying generally :the nature of the work d6ne, Whether by contract or otheiwise." " : '- ■'■" ■■'-'' !! '""■' Motion seconded by Mr. Rhodes and agreed

Mr. J. H. Wallace moved — " For a re v n of all Moneys expended on the Reclaimed Land and Breast Work in Wellington — to whom paid whether by contract or otherwise, with full particulars of all contracts relating to the same;! such Ret'irn to date from the last Return fur- . Dished in Session VII of this Council— and to be continued to this date." Motion seconded by Mr. Rhodes and agreed to. "Mr. J. H. Wallace moved—" For a Return of Moneys expended by Grants in Aid from Jauu.try Ist, 1857, to the present time, — specifying the locality where the amount has been expended, naming the street or otherwise — also specifying the amount contributed by the public. Motion seconded by Mr. Rhodes and agreed to. FIVE SHILLING LAND. Mr. J. H. Wallace to move — "For a return of all applications for five shilling land, applied for iv the province of Wellington, witb full particulars of the quantity, the name of appliant, and the run, or district, where situated ; also, full particulars of such tive shilling land as is already certified to by tiie Commissioner of Crown Lands.'' Mr. Wallace said that the information he asked for would be very valuable, particularly if any proposition for tie amendments of the Land Regulations was brought before the Council during the present sessiou. He should have liked to have seen some notice given on the part of the Government with reference tv this subject. The information contained in the Gazette was very vague, and as the returns he asked for were of an important character he ciuld not conceive that the Government could refuse to supply it The Commissioner of Crown Lands had failed to discover any further information asked for by the lion, member than what had been already published. If the boo. member asked for additional information the Government •would be very willing to furnish it, for as he ■ had rightly designated it, it was a very imporportant subject, and one of considerable interest to the public. Mr. Duncan suggested that Mr. Wallace should withdraw his motion with the view to itb amendment. Mr. Wallace wanted that information in a collected and tabular form which perhaps had . . already been published, but which was scattered through a number of Gazettes. As Mr. Duncan had not pointed out the amendment he had spoken of, be could neither support it nor accept his suggestion. Mr. Stokes said that it was usual for the Council to ark for such information as had not been given to the public, and as Mr. Wallace could obtain the information he lequired he shpuld oppose the adoption of the motion. The motion was then put, and lost on a divi. sion by a majority of 19 against 2 Mr. Wallace and his seconder Mr. Fawcett only voting for it. MAP OF THE PROVINCE. Mr. J. H. Wallace moved— "That a , respectful Address be presented to His Honor theSuperiuteudent, requesting him to have a Map upon a large scale, immediately prepared, of the 'province of Wellington, shewing the freeholds, ' the boundaries of runs and names of runholders, " and quantity in each run, the purchased lands !' in the province, the native reserves, lands under lease from the natives, with the names of the holders, and every other detiil necessary for enabliug the intending freeholder to distinguish readily, lands, still open for purchase." Mr. Wallace hoped that this motion would not share the fate of the last one, or he did not know what the public would think of them. He knew of no matter of more import- ■._-. ance than a map of the lands of this Province. He was only asking for what every Province had, and what this Province was really deficient in. He did not require a map based upon surveys, but upon such practical information, as the Government had already in its possession. He was not a novice upon the subject he was discussing, and be well knew that perons who went to the Land Office with the intention of becoming purchasers, expressed themselves extremely dissatisfied with the vague information there afforded (hero. They could get no general or definite information from the small maps shown them at the Land Office. He could conceive that there was nothing: that , would be more advantageous to the Province than a map showing the lands open to purchase, and giving the boundaries of the runs, which had never yet been done by the Government. Capt. Rhodes seconded the motion. The Commissioner op.Crown Lands bad no *• hesitation in saying that the Council would oppose the motion, if the hon. gentleman pressed it, which he trusted would not be the case. The information required was not in the possession of the Government, and if it had been, the . .Government would have been greatly to blame if they ; bad not anticipated the motion. The hon. gentleman was simply asking for what it .was utterly impossible to grant. The very <' : nature of tbe motion was an implication on the as it implied that there was infor : tnation in possession of the Superintendent, which he refused to make public. There were maps of some of the other Provinces, but they were merely sketch maps, which had been highly coloured, and were not to be depended upon ; and it would be unworthy of the Council to sanction a map of the kind. Tee boundaries of tbe runs had been approximately laid down, and nothing more was required by the existing regulations. The information would prove valuable, but it was not to be obtained. With regard to Native Reserves, he ought to say that every endeavour had been made to obtain information.relative to them, without success. It was well known that the natives were prepared to resist, by force if necessary, any entrance upon their knd for the pnrpose of its being surveyed. He trusted that in future more s: ..practical progress would be made in this direction than had hitherto been tbe case. He was. sure the hon. gentleman did not want a catch map to attract population, such as had been made by other Provinces, though they had been the means of introducing a very credulous, though a very excellent body of settlers. What the hon. member should have done, would have been either to move for a select committee, or or td move a resolution to enforce on the Govern- . mentthe necessity of increasing the survey staff of the Province, in order that the surveys might be pushed on with more vigour. Mr. Borlase hoped Mr. Wallace would withdiaw bis motion, as he was asking for a "map based upon what they had not,, a proper \. survey, which would take years to effect, and ... cost £20,000 before it was finished. Mr. Watt said that it was well the Govern- , ment did not know who leased lands from the natives, it was a practice opposed to an ins. „ perative law, but one that deserved encourage- ., ment, for it had been the means more than ff; anything else of preserving peace in his district, and he should be sorry to see it interfered with. •,, ..The native lands were not strictly held on .~. .eases, how they were held was a mystery, and y % M<i longer it continued so the belter.

Mr. Wallace said he thought that everything relating to t'le public lauds was a mystery. Mr. Cartek was afraid that what Mr. Wallace ivanted, though very valuable, could not be obfor years to come. * He thought fiat the ruos 01 the Province ought to be surveyed as quickly as possible, with the view of marking off roads and the purchased lands. It was well known that the runs never had been, but ought to be surveyed. He trusted Mr. Wallace would not press bis motion, but substitute it by one pressing upon the Government to obtain a prompt and good survey of the Province Captain Rhodes thought they ought to thank the nover of the resolution for bringing the subject forward, though be would recommend him to withdraw the motion. There could be no doubt that here was a difficulty experienced here in getting inform uiou about lands open for sale, and the boundaries of runs which was not experienced elsewhere. The occipiers of runs were bound to make a survey, if called upon to do so by the Commissioner of Crown Lands. Mb. Wallace said, he must disclaim altogether of having any intention to cast auy im--1 putation upon his Honor the Superintendent in withholding any infonnarion it was in his power to furnish. He did not ask for a map based upou a trigonometrical survey of the Province, but such a one that the Government Could supply, and if it would cost £20,000, it would be money well laid out and would be worth £200,000 to the Province. It was not, he would repeat, impossible to place the iinformation be required or a map, and Hie compilation would be a matter of no great difficulty now that his Honor was appointed Lund Commissiouer, and who would therefore have put in his hand, all those maps which had been prepared duiing the last twenty years by the Land Purchase Department. With such maierals at his disposal a map like tiiat he asked for could be prepared and that at a very moderate expense. ( Mb. Wallace refusing to withdraw his. mo tiou it was negatived without a division. The Counci' theu adjourned. Wednesday, April 30. The Speaker took the Chair at 5 o'clock. Present the whole of the members except Messrs. Harrison, Allison, and Turnbull. Mb. McEwen presented a petition from a settler at the Hutt relative to a light of road to his section, whicu was. read, received, aud ordered to be printed. The Provincial Treasurer laid on the table the plan of the proposed Custom House aud Post Office, together with a copy of ttie Gazette, containing the names and amounts of tnose who have tendered for tbe construction thereof. The Commissioner of Crown Lands laid on the table Geological plans in connection wiU Mr. Crawford's report; also reports relative to Gaol and Lunatic Asylum : also copy of corres pondeuce between the Superintendent and Sir Roderick Murchison, which were oderered to be printed. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. J. H Wallace to move — " For leave to bring in a Bill to establish a Municipal Corporation, for the Oity of Wellington." Mr. R. J. Dongan to more—" For a Return of the quantity of land in the province of Wellington — of tbe number of acres over which the Native Title has been extinguished, of the number of acres sold by the Government, and of the number of acres at present opeu for selection." Mr. George Allen to move — " That it is the opinion of this Council that an alteration should be made in tbe present Slaughterhouse Act, so as to prevent the slaughtering of cattle within .the limits of the City." Mr. Geohge Allen to move — " That it is the opinion of this Council that some measure be taken to prevent the driving of cattle through the streets of this City during the day. The Crown Lands Commissioner to move — " The adoption of the following Address in reply to the Speech of His Honor the Superintendent, viz.: — " The great variety of tropics comprehended in the Speech with which your Honor opened this Ninth Session of tbe Provincial Council, and the several different interests that are more or less nffected thereby; obviously preclude any reasonable expectation ofjunanimity of opinion ou all the details embraced thereiu. " Taking, however, a general view of the ten dency of your administration and policy *s there fully developed to us, we desire to assure your Honor of our entire and cordial concurrence and support. " The subject wbieh occupies the most prorai nent position in your Speech, and ou which your Honor has given expression to decided and emphatic opinion ; is one which we cannot omit in justice to the interests of the whole Province to notice specially in our Address, in reply " We believe that there is no subject on which our constituents are so united in opinion as iv tbe condemnation of the former native policy, and in a desire to co-operate with His Excellency Sir George Grey and his Government in carrying out a policy on native questions, based on eutirely different, principles. "The expression of these views on our part will afford the best guarantee to your Honor of our intention to put in practice the wise recommendation contained iv the lust paragraph iv your Honor's Speech." Mr. Stakes to move for the following Returns — " A. return of all sums of money expended in the erection, re-constrnction, and repairs of the Hutt Bridge, — aud in erecting Breastworks on tbe banks of the river." " A Return of all sums expended in the erection of the Wanganui Bridge." •'A Return of the number of Bridges erected in the Province from the Ist January, 1854, — specifying the cost of construction of each,— of the uumber of Bridges that have been carried away by floods, — and the cost of tbeir recon struction, — and the expense incurred during the same period in repairs of the several Bridges." " An approximate Return of the cost of re pairs of the two Trunk Lines of Road in this Province incurred from land slips and other accidents during the same period." Mr. W. Waring Taylor asked the Provincial Secretary — "If any Ferryman is at present stationed at the Ohaa River on the West Coast, and if not, if it is the intention of the Government to place one there.' Mr. Woodwabd, in reply, said that the ferryman at the Ouau River was paid on the 15th of last month for his services for tbe proceeding year, and he did not then intimate that he was goiug to relinquish his serrices. An inquiry would be instituted into the matter. The Crown Lands CoMMisaroNEß moved — " For the appointment of a Select Committee to enquire and report on the extent, and probable cost of the erection of such additional buildings as may be deemed requisite for the convenience of members attending the next Session of the General Assembly. Such committee to consist of Messrs. G. Allen, R. Stokes. W. B. Rhodes, W. W. Taylor, C. R. Carter, C. B. Borlase, and tbe mover." Agreed to. Tbe Crovtn Lands Commissioner moved "For leave to bring iv a bill to empower the

Superintendent to erect a Toll Bar at Ku Warra Warra." He said the bill was similai to the one introduced last year, but which hat been withdrawn, owing to the disturbed state o; the country. Seconded by Mr. Allen, read a first time, to be read a second time on Fiiday. This Crown Lands Commsioner moved— seconded by Mr. Woodward, — " That tbe Speaker shall tike the chair ut Three o'clock p.m., for the meeting of the Council." He thought that if the motion was carried, it would would be a great convenience to country members. Mr. Johnston, Mr. Borlase, and Mr. Duncan opposed the motion! Mr. McEweu supported it; Mr. Taylor and Mr. Alien would support if it could be shown that it would be a convenience to the country m mbers, and be practically a saving of time. Mali on, by leave, withdrawn. The Crown Lands Commissioner moved — " for the appointment of a Select Committee to take into consideration the propriety of amending and consolidating the various Highways Acts : with power to call for persons and papers : such Committee to consist of Messrs. G. Allen, D. McEwen, J. Johnston, H. S. Harrison, C. R. Carter, and the Mover. Agreed to. The Provincial Treasurer moved — " That a Select Committee be appointed to investigate and report upon the claim made by Messrs. J. Gladstone and Co., in respect to the passage money of the " Ann Wilson," aud also on all claims preferred by the said firm againstthe other province ; such Committee to consist of this Hon. J. Johnston, Messrs. Borlase, Hunter, Taylor, and the mover." After some explanatory remarks of the mover, the motion was agreed to. The Provincial Treasurer moved — "That a Select Committee be appointed to receive a.ny claims to compensation which might have been presented under the Act of Council, Session 11, No. 12, but which, owing to accident, ignorance, or other cause, were not sent in within the prescribed time, or being sent in were not reported on, and to report thereon in detail to the Council ; such Committee to consist of the Hon. the Speaker, Messrs. Allen, Buck, Carter, and the mover." After some explanatory remarks of the mover, the motion was agreed to. BANK OF NEW ZEALAND. Mr. Carter moved— " That with a view to encourage Colonial Enterprise and local institutions | it js the opinion of this Council that at least, one half of the banking business, and monies at the disposal of the Provincial Government should at the earliest period, be transferred to the Bank of New Zealand." Mr. Carter said he would give the Council a few of the reasons which had induced him to bring this motion foiward. For a long time there was only one bank in the Colony, which monopolised the whole of the business ; the Government as well as ptivate houses having no alternative but to support it. Afterwards, a branch of the Oriental Bank was opened, when the Government as well astbe public, very considerately transferred a share of its husiness to it, and he believed atonetimetheformergavetotbe second banka considerable amount of its deposits. The question then began to be mooted, whether there was not room for a third bank, which would ensure the retention in the Colony of the profits realised by the undertaking. It was known that the profits of the Union Bank realized 15 per cent, to the English shareholders, and he believed that the dividends of the Bank of New South Wales, a branch of which i had been established hero iv the room of the Oriental — had averaged from 20 to 25 per cent, since the bank was first started. The whole of these large profits went into the hands of foreign shareholders. The project of starting a third bauk — the Bank of New Zealand, with New Zealand shareholders — had been taken up with great spirit at Auckland, and had been more successful than any enter- | prise ever before projected in the Colony. The greater proportion of the profits and dividends j of this bank would be retained and invested in the Colony, and though it had a greater claim on us than the other banks, it being a local institution, and a settler's bank, it only asked for a share of the banking business, and deposits of the Loc.il Government. He was not there to say anything against the other banks, but he thought it wus only f.iir and right that our loctl bank, should have a share of the business of the locil Government. It might perhaps be thought, that the New Zealand Bank was not in fie position to render that assistance to the Government, which the other banks were able to afford ; but he ould state on pretty good authority, that there was from £60,000 to £80.000, lying in the coffers of the Canterbury branch, and so large a sum as £140,000, lying idle in the branch at Duuedin ; so that the bank was in a position to m ike any advances and on as good terms, as either of the two foreign hanks. (Hear, hear). He had been informed, that the General , Government had transferred the whole of their accounts to the B-uik .of New Zealand, but whether this was a politic act on their pan, he was not prepared to say. It did not appear to him to be wise, to give the whole of the Government business ex. clusively to one bank, and he only asked for the Bunk of New Zealand a fair share. By the terms of his motion this was put at one half, hut he should not object to it being fixed at one third. He only claimed for a local institution, the same amount of business, at the hauds of the Gove'rntnent, they accorded to the other banks established in Wellington. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Fawoett said, that as the hon. membei was willing to. accept one-third instead of onehalf of the- Government business for the new lilt I stitution, he should be willing to support the motion if thus modified ; but not otherwise, as be thought that we should not desert altogether an old acquaintance with whom we had beea in the habit of doing business, and who had given satisfaction,, and, go over all at ouce to a new shop. Captain Bhodes was surprised that hon members bad not risen to second the motion of Mr. Carter, which he had much pleasure in doing. The hon. ge-ntleman had said so much and so well in favour of the motion, that little was left for him to say in its support. He was surprised that the recent establishment of this local institution was not mentioned in his Honoi's speech biit must attribute it to inadvertancy ; there were so many subjects tv be mentioned that it was altogether overlooked ; but strange to say that while the Bunk of New New Zealand was forgotten the other two banks were particularly noticed. (Hear, hear.) With reference to advances or loans, he could state as a share. I holder, that the Bank of New Zealand was prepared t<> make either, and to the fullest extent that conld be requited. It appeared to be necessary to call the attention of the Executive to fie fact that there was such a Bank, (Hear hear,) but a Bank which at present unfortu , imtely had nioie funds than business. He was informed that several branches of the New Zealand Bank had beeu opened in Otagu, and that riiey had £140,000 at present lying

i , idle. He thought that if the Government would r transfer even a portion, if less than one-third of I their business to their local Bank— an institnf tiou £ot up and supported by New Zealand Colonists— it would show the public that they , had faith in ic. (Hear, hear,) It was said that this was a new sliop, but he would remind • the hou. member that the new shop was often j a great public benefit, and t'lat the new shop : was a colonial shop, and as such ought to be i enourageddy the Colonial Authorities. (Hear.) The Crown Lands Commissioner objected to the notice in its present shape. They, as a Legislature, bad no right to direct the Executive in matters of detail, but on broadd an general principles, he was behind nonein admitting that the Executive should be guided by the wishes of the Legistrture. The Union Bank had afforded the Government in times past good and servipable accommodation, and he thought with Mr. Fawcett, that we should not desert without cause an old shop where we had been in the habit of doing business. Oapt. Rhodes bad proved t-)o much, for if the new Bank bad so much money they did not require the deposits of the Piovincial Govermeut, It might be true that the greater number of shares were at present held in tbe colony, but they all knew how these were prone to expatriate themselves, and probablj in five years we may see I large share shareholders in this local institution, spending their hundreds in Paris and other foreign capitals. So do not let us frighten away useful institutions with which we find no fault and deprive the public of the advantages o\ Banking competition. Nor should it be overlooked that though a New Zealand Bank, its head quarters were not here at present. By the terms of the motion no discretionary power was given to the Executive; they were told that at least one half of their banking business must be forthwith trans ferred to the Bank of New Zealand. He could support the motion if it was made like the one of which Mr. Crawford had given notice with reference to their printing. The hon. gentleman very properly said that as they bad three printing offices, it was desirable that their printing should be submitted to the competition of the three offices, or that each should have its fair share. He could understand such a resolution, and a motion like it relative to their three Banks would have the support of the Government. The Executive would give due weight to a recommendation from the Council to the effect that it was desirable that a fair share of its business should be conferred on the Bank of New Zealand, and if the bon. member did not thus modify his motion be should be compelled to move an amendment to that effect. Mr. Cabter consented to allow his resolution to stand thus. — That with a view to encourage Colonial enterprise and Local Institutions, it is the opinion of this C'luncil that the Provincial Government should be prepared to confer a fair share of its business on the Bank of New Zealand. Mr. Wallace thought that tbe banking business of the Government should be done by tender. Mr. DairoAN said that he had never before listened to a speech from Mr. Fitzherbert in which he had spoken to such ' disadvantage. His remarks, he thought, were very unhappy. He should like to add to the resolution as now modi tied the words " as early as practicable," for as it stood it was not sufficiently explicit, and action in the matter should not be left to an indefinite period. We were in the position of one who had been doing business with foreigners, but who was now able to set up in business for himself. - Tim was the proper way of putting the question; We were now in a position to" put that money into our own pockets which we had been in the habit of putting into the pockets of foreign capitalists. Mr. Fitzherbert had complained that the resolution entered too much into matters of detail, but it embodied not only mutters of detail but a matter of principle (hear, hear). The money of the Government was held in trust for the Province and if they did not deposit it in a bank of its own they were not making the best use of ij, for the profits of their local bank would be reinvested on reproductive works in the celony, instead of being sent away from it, aud if New Zealand was to become one country, this New Zealand Bank would be in a great measure the means of effecting it. He was very sorry to hear it remarked that the head quarters of the Bank were at Auckland. The head quarters must be somewhere, and better at Anckland than at Sydney ; better in Auckland than in London, (hear hear). It was proper for the Council to tell tne Provincial Government that it was their duty to encourage and patronize this important local institution. Here a message from His Honor to tbe Speaker. MESSAGE.NO. 1. The Superintendent begs to suggest to the Provincial Council the propriety of their passing an Address of Condolence to her most gracious Majesty, on the irreparable loss Her Majesty and the whole Empire have sustained in the death of the Prince Consort. I. E. FEATHERSTON, Superintendent. Superintendent's Office, April 30, 1862. Mr. Allen did not often disagree with the hon. member (Mr- Fitzfierbert) but he did so in this instance most decidedly, and he should cordially support the resolution. Mr. Brandon considered the motion as it originally stood was an improper interference with the Executive, in whom by law the administration of the whole affairs of the Province were vested. He would support the motion as now amended. The amended motion was then put and carried nem con. RETURN OP RUNS. Mr. Carter moved — " For a Return of lands now in the Province occupied as Runs, under license from the Crown ; specifying the name of the present holder of the license, the date of the License and first occupation; of the Run, the acreage contents of the Run, the rate of rent or assessment paid each year to the Government, from the date of occupation to the present time, and the total amount paid during the same period, by each Runholder : such return to state, where practicable, the name of the surveyor of each Run respectively, and in other cases the mode by which the acreage was estimated. The amount of Bush Laud iv each Run, to be stuted : also, whetner such Bush Land is subject . to rent." He said that the Pastoral Regulations of this Province, had not, as it was well known, given satisfaction to the public; and the subject was one of the most important that would now, and for some time to come, engage the attention of the Council. In his own opinion those regulations would have been more satisfactory if they had been carried out according to their spirit. It could not be deuied that there was an impression abroad that the runs contain more acres than they were certified to contain, and that the run holders paid less for the lands they occupied than they ought to do. The hon. member after some further remarks concluded by moving the resolution.

Mr. Wallace seconded the motion, and would suggest that the words—" quantity of ss. and 10s. iand purchased, quantity applied for, and quantity of ss. lands certified to by the Commissioner"— should be added, as there was some mystery about these matters, which the sooner it was cleared up tbe better. Capt. Rhodes felt obliged to Mr. Carter for bringing the motion forward, and would suggest that the words — "useless sand and swamp should be added as well as bush. .He must admit that the time had arrived when it was of more consequence to have people than sheep, and he thought that the days of runholding in this province were numbered. Runs were going out of fashion; and he thought the present motion was a move in the right direction. Mr. Taylor thought that Captain Rhodes should define what he considered useless swamp, as some swamp lands were really very useful. The CoMMrsxoNBR op Cbown Lands said there was no informitien to enable the Government to tell what the average is. Tbe only way would be to have a bona fide survey made, and it was desirable, that the real contents of the runs shoald be ascertained. He admitted with Captaiu Rhodes that runs were now getting out of date, and he thought that every thing that in equity could be done, should be done to promote tbe settlement of the lands of the Province. Capt. Smith said, it was impossible to give more than an approximate estimate of the number of acres any run contained. Mr. Borlase bad very particular pleasure in supporting the m.tiun. The estimated contents of a run ought not to be determined by the runholder alone, and it was quite possible to obtain a more approximate estimate than they now had. The runholders were represented in the j house, as an unfortunate class, who were com- I pelled to pay for swamps and sand bills, and as such he condoled with them, but they were not viewed in that light out of doors. It was there held that they did not pay a fair equivalent tor what they received, and that they held their runs to their own great benefit, but to the great detriment of the Province. There was an impression out of doors that the money received by the Government for licensing the occupation of millions of acres, was not sufficient to pay for the salaries of the Scab Inspectors and Brand Registrars that were appointed for the exclusive benefit of the Runholders. This was the impression out of doors, he should not mention his own until the returns asked for were before them. Mr, Fawoetx said the swamps were the best lands in the Province. Mr. Watt said his expsrience as a runholder differed materially from that of other hon. members. From what hid fallen from them they must conclude that one-balf the runholders in the Province, were dishonest men, and not paying a fair equivalent for the privileges they enjoyed. This was not the case in his district, and he did not know of any case in which the acreage of a run was under estimated. Mr. Carter, in reply, said that in the even t of the returns asked for not furnishing the information he required, he should move that such a sum be placed on the estimates to cover the cost of the survey of runs, in blacks, and in laying down a line of road through them, in order that the would-berunbolder might know where he was when looking out for land, and be able to distinguish the purchased from tbe uupurchased lands. The m >tion was then put and carried. THE FENCING ACT. Capt. W. M. Smith moved "For a select Committee to consider what amendment (if any) should be made in the Fencing Act now in force. Such Committee to consist of Messrs. C. R. Carter, J. F: JK. VTnght, c. Buck, ffr Watt, and the Mover— with power to call for witnesses, books, and papers. Agreed to. SURVEY BOARD. A Bill for the formation of a. Survey Board was introduced by Capt. Smith and read a first time, to be read a second time on Tuesday next. Mr. Wright moved "That the petition of Mr. Charles Stevens be referred to a Select Committee, consisting of Messrs. Taylor, Spinks Buck, McEwen, and the Mover, with power to call for persons and papers. The report to be brought up this day week. Agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Wabino Taylor, leave of absence for a fort-night was given to Mr. George Turnbull, one of the members for the City of Wellington. The Couucil then adjourned.