SIR GEORGE GREY AND THE WAIKATOS.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVI, Issue 1706, 11 March 1862, Page 5

SIR GEORGE GREY AND THE WAIKATOS.

{From the Press.) Not many of our readers, we believe, see the 'Maori Messenger'; we have therefore reprinted in full from its columns the reports of the conversations between the Governor and the Natives of the Waikatos, which appear in that journal. Partial reports of these interviews have appeared before, but not in the same full and accurate form. We publish them because we deem it of paramount imporance, that, before the next meeting of the Assembly (which has, we hear, been posponed till June, and is to take place at Wellington) the Middle Island should be enabled thoroughly to comprehend the policy ' which His Excellency and his Ministers have proposed to the natives ; and nowhere have we seen that policy so fully set forth as in theso speeches by the Governor to the Waikatos. It is also very curious to watch the expressions of the native mind, in order to see to What extent mistrust in the Government and the Europeans has taken root, and to what extent confidence is beginning to return. Sir G. Grey seems to us to have put the King question in a light which will work amongst the natives. He begins by saying « I want to know what you mean by a King " — "Is he to be a King over the whole native , race ?" — " Yes " they say. " But suppose some of the natives will not accept him ; what then ?"— " Yes but all will accept him." "What, the Ngapuhis f says the Governor." Oh, we have not had answers to our letters from them." « Well, but what will you dp if they wont acoept your King." ." We don't know that they will not." "I tell you they will not," says the Governor. Thus they continued to fence with the question; but Sir George Grey was not to be foiled ; and when one native replied in this strain, he calls for another speaker to inform him on this point. "Because" he says, "I want to know— -do you intend to establish the Maori King by fore* in those districts where he will not be willingly accepted T" Thus he brings them to one important result. He tells them that he will not permit any such forcible extension of the movement ; and shews them that, without force, the King movement is only a union of some few tribes under one head ; that their King is only a larger chief, and in such capaoity he is ready and glad to acknowledge and welcome him. He thinks the name a bad one to have chosen but does not care much about a name ; but he will be ready to co-operate with the larger chief, or with the chief of each individual tribe, as they please, in order to produce the result which is the recognised object of all — namely, the introduction of law and order over tbe whole island.

The question as to the plunder taken from the Europeans, in the late War is treated in a less satisfactory manner: there is some difficulty in .understanding what the Governor means. He does not say that the plunder, either of goods, such as horses, or cattle, or land, whioh is' still held by the natives, shall be given up. •' You will remember," he says, "that this has been demanded to be given up, if you do not wish to be attacked. In my position as Governor, 1 do riot care whether this is given up or not : tut I will tell you what I think.' 1 He then goes on to; explain, that if any stolen property is found on any Maori, " he will, even if tie twenty years hence, be taken before the judge, and if he be found to be a thief he will be punished." The view Sir G. Grey takes is, that there is, and has been, no war— the case has been one of a simple riot % For example, in . the oelebrattd Bristol riots, the troops fought with; the people ; there was war for a few days till the riot was over ; and then a special commission of the Queen's Benph sat to try the offenders according to the ordinary process of law ;■ not according to military law. Sir G. Gray seems to take the same view of affairs here. There is now peace; The ordinary courts of law are to stattle all past questions. Now we are not saying Sir G. Grey is wholly right or wrong, we are simply trying to explain his policy. But it may be remembered that long ago we asked this question— Wera we at war or not ? What was the legal aspect of. the question ? Were we fighting as against a foreign power, or simply putting down a riot ? Weird we fighting against the Queen's enemies, or subduing her own subjects ? And we asked this, because in speeches; and articles innumerable we saw that the same character was attributed to the natives at the same time, when it suited the speaker's or writer's purpose. And how the difficulty comes to light. In war-plunder is justifiable. You can't punish the soldiers after a war for sharing in the plunder of a town or district; and the, natives are themselves quite sensible of this view. His Excellency asks—" How- about the ! stolen property ; the cattle and horses f" Tipene— "My riamjj fqr,thaj; is Spoils of war," (or the. spoils lawfully takph in war). But if you regard a man as a rioter, you may- try him as a robber or receiver of stolen goods j thus Sir George j seems resolved to ignore, tbe existence of war in the colony at all. He deprecates the idea of accepting terms of submission or punishing pffejaders. But there is this to be remarked ; that in a country where law is: prevalent, such an institution as police intejrveiies. |f W0 suspect a man nas stolen goods, we send police to search his house ; without police law is helpless. It was helpless in Ireland till Sir Robert Peel founded the police forbe now called * Peelers', in that country. But here is a case where hundred of Horses and cattle are openly, foeld

by this marauders j and We confess if seems lather like a shirking of the qttes|| tion in, such a case to assame that Oial case is one of law, and to say. thai a maiil found with stolen property on" himjifillf" he punished. In another place tD^X3o*f veruor holds language scarcely cotfgisterit with [ the / above. not promise to be satisfied J^ithojtt^ tl th(9 stock is given up. 14o: not thinKli shall be satisfied. I must have ait enquiry before I can say, what I will ,do^ Thar! only conclusion we can come, to is, that Sir George Grey may be in a position to hold different language to those who forcibly obstruct the reduction of the island to one system of government. He has given ominous hints ibat force may be used after all. " I haye 1 many soldiers with me," he says, rt atid I co^Havep^i many more asJ. like." . ;i . . -,, .^ .# In the consciousness of power and of determination to use it in the last necessity, he can , well afford to; bold language which may produce , the de^fred xsgiult by persuasion instead of violence;, ,l!JP|sns he *: hints tor the Waikatos that it wbiild be better if they could persnade .the, Tair^k; nakis and I^ga|erainiiis j&svfeMp-. thflfi^ plunder, and also a portion of land a»|^ recompense for the - injuries ;<tlb^ hftydK inflioted-4ff ;Therefqf6^ I recommeiQd ycffi i all to try and persaadajhe people who have the plunder to giv4itap.''' - The way in which the Waitara Qaes* tion is introduced is curious.- -Wffen the r Governor talK»\pC.*gC«jr^{f''ap'f^takeii from the Europeans, the ; Native , asks— "Have the English, none of land?"— ; " What do yod mean ?" says th& Governor. "The Waftwa." It is obvious that the idea that the sale of the Wai*. tara was an unfair one, is not confined^ as Me used to be told, to William King and his fracfibri ot Kis tribe, fgf evidently the Waikatos also disbelieve, in ,t^e justice of. that sale.: .Sir :M. : /.Qr&yf^t once says there is to be an. investigation into that purchase. Ths Native then says, 1' Let also the other land Taiajajn^aka bo investigated." ; This looks rather) to . be * giving an inch and taking an el).' But the Governor stops that at once— «' We can have no dispute about that, that land is ours"— "lf the people interfere with that block or use threatening language, I will place 'soldiers there." The* proposal however that in all .future cases the Runanga should settle the sale appears to remove all future ground for .dispute ; and the declaration appears^ to'h^en been unwillingly extorted, that "if ft native, willing to sell his land, bad not previously pledged it; to the king; he would not be interfered with ; though they still maintained that lands placed voluntarily under the power oftbe kingJjShouid not be sold without his permission.

On the subject of selling arms and gunpowder Sir. 'G.;Gr^r jpras firm and explicit: he would not .allow it. tW conversation on this point gives rise to an excellent Maori wittidismW Human* is pleading for ppitgerr-^ ysf^Ht are you afraid of?" says His Excellency; « I am afraid of you," says the Chief. "You need not fear me, X will lake care of you." Ruihana; " very well, youwilHake care of me; but thers\ is your, <&$,". (meaning the military force). On the whole, there is one great value in thes£ l rfjjbrts ; any paper or letter 'from* a native has been published* putting the truth in an inconvenient %s—" Oh " says the European party, « that has beea written by one of the missionaries." In these conversations, at all events, thero is no missionary, work. Whatever the natives have got co say, they saj^ it viva. v?6e, and it mtfst be aliniift^J^&t no aociiments have yet k b^jn pkblis&ed of such interest and importance, Aether as displaying the native view of thequeition on one hand,, or a clear eauhciatioa of the new policy on ttie' otheiN