Untitled

Wellington Independent, Volume XVI, Issue 1605, 2 August 1861, Page 4

we have proposed, or the financial policy on which we have acted during the five years for which we have held office. I think, sir, that this appeal for consideration is not altogether useless on the present occasion; Tor I believe that it so happens that there are yet some lion, members who have come to no conclnsiva decision as to the side 1 on which they will record their votes on this question. That is an unusual position with respect to a question of this character; all the more unusual, ton, when it is considered that from the first day of his attending iv the present Session, the hon. member who has just addressed theHouso has given notice to it, and to the country, that he intended to propose some such motion for its consideration. What, sir, are we to infer from this position of affairs? This, at least, that— however some hon. members may dislike the present Govern ment— however, dining a five years' administration we have, as inevitably all Ministers must, made in one part of the country or another, an enemy on this subject, and an enemy on that subject, each differing as to the cause and character of his enmity, but when lolled up and grouped together representing an aggregation of dislike and possible hatred to us,— the fact that hon. members are now debating on which side they will dividers a proof that though our acts, known to the countiy, have been attacked, the past acls of the bon. member for Rangitikei, and bis intentions for the future, (albeit, hithei to cloaked so carefully,) are still a subject of distrust and suspicion to many, both in this House and out of it. Knowing so well as we do that lion, member and the motives and causes which have led to this motion, I must say, I have been agreeably surprised at thesljlein which he has to-night preferred it. I did expect much more vociferation a m uch greater amount, ef unproved assertion and of unfounded imputation. Above all, (and with respect to this I feel tie greatest satisfaction,) I expected that bo would have maintained that studied reticence with regard to the momentous crisis in which the colony is placed, which has hitherto shrouded his opinions during this session. But I cannot congratulate the lion, member on bis present position, because I can well conceive the trembling anxiety of mind with which be at last removed the mask under which he has hitherto acted. lean well conceive how agitated he has been by the knowledge that a certain course of action, necessary to secure the suppoil of some whose support he desired, would bring him into conflict with others with whom he sym pathiz'ed, and whose support he did not wish to lose; but that, at last, be must choose between the one or the other, the right or tbeleft. But, sir, if I cannot congratulate the hon. member on his feelings at being, at last, forced to make the selection to which I bare referred. I will congratulate the country. We now know the opinions of the hon. member with respect to the Native question, insofar as he has adverted to it (bear, hear). As I listened to him, I thought to myself, Why ! It is in the character of a war minister that the bon. member invites the confidence of this House, and not in the character of a man of peace ! Not of him who thinks that a war, which last year be designated unjust, and unholy, is still of that character ; but of one who censures us because we were too lenient in the terms we offered to the misguided Natives who were involved in that war. I especially allude to the Njjatinwi natives, believing that they were thoroughly misguided in their judgment, and mistaughtby those or whom they leant for csunsel. I pity and admire the acts of many of these men ; and I will presently point out why there was a dif not only has no. charge worthy of the name ferpnee belweeu the terms offered to tbe Ngatiawa, and those offered ro the murdering Nguthuanuis and Tatanakis, or those offered to the Waikatos, who subsequently joined in tbe war. I can also, sir, congratulate the Ministry that been substantiated by the hen. member opposite, but that, with one exception which I will refer to bye and bye, no charge has even been preferred, llinc'tllx laclmjmce. That charge came out at tbe end of bis speech. Tbat is tbe cause of the hatred felt by the hon. member and his immediate supports; on that point, howeier, I will join issue with him, and I shall be prepared to go to tbe country on tbe question Before, sir, I proceed to advert more particularly to the subject brought under the notice of the House by tbe hon. gentleman, I will again congratulate the country on seeing, at last, the leading member of the opposition accepting; the terms advised by the present Govenimont, witlj respect to the largest branch of the disaffected natives. It is now a question of minor importance what maj be tbe fato of the present Ministry. It will be, as it has long been, a happy time when we cease to hold office ; andifithad not been for the war, we should long mijcc have ceased to do so ; but had we done so upon anyless conclusive occasion than an adverse vole on such a motion as that now before tbe Mouse I think I can conceive the epitaph which might properly have been raised over us, — "Here lie tbe remains oj" those [who found >be couniry at peace, and left at war ; those who afraid at the commotion they had raised, and panic struck at the dangers which appeared imminent, hurriedly retreated from the seats they desired to occupy only so long as they could occupy them without anxiety and during peace."' Whatever may be the decision, with reference to the present motion, we have now, by menus, Jirst of the address in reply to the Governor's speech ; secondly of the resolutions moved by my bon. colleague, still more clinched by tbe address adopted by the House this night, placed the Colony in its legitimate position of Knowing that whoever may advise His Excellency in administering tbe Government with respect to the Native question, the Natives can be no longer deluded by assertions tbat half tbe Queen's runanya were in favor of the Maori King That is a memorable remark, which within tbe last four weeks was made by one of tbe principal Chiefs in New Zealand to one of the Ministers: it was this, " How can you expect those Natives in tbe Waikalo not to persevere in this Kii:g morcment, when one-half of your own rnniinga is in favor of backing them up in it?" I do not see why I should conceal the name of that chief, and there are those around me who will recognise his position and influence. It was the well-known chief William Naylor (hear, heat). In commenting on the conduct of Ministers, with reference to their po sition as to the military operations of the bite war, the hon. member has feebly for him, lie must allow me to say, reproduced a most unsavoury and unattractive hash of articles, which occupied in their fresh state tbe attention of the House last session. He has attempted again to make in a charge against us that for five or six weeks we concurred with his Excellency in staying the progress of the war, and in preventing other tribes from being involved iv it, by re straining the CommandingOflicer from crossing the Waitara. The request that it might be so was made by Woikato chiefs; they said, Don't let the \yaitara be dossed while those Waikatos, who have gone to visit the Ngaliawas, are still iv the neighbourhood of Taranaki. And is that to be made a charge against tbe Govern-

ment; and can we at the same time be charged with cold-blooded hcartlessness and selfish disregard of the interests of the country, because we complied with the request of those Waikatos, and did not carry the war in a direction to provoke Waikato ? If the same circumstances were to occur again,— with a knowledge or what would follow, derived from what has occurred.— l would tender the same advice to bis Excellency again (hoar, henr). 'lhen, sir, hon. member has made it a matter of acousa, tion against the Government that we have allowed the expression to be used by Ministers and politicians in England, that this was a settlers' war ! That was most dangerous ground for the hon. member to approach, and I saw that he faltered as he approached it. I saw that he was aware of what was behind, amli tbat be knew what would be the inevitable, answer. Sir, I hurl at the hon. gentleman and those who act with him, the fact, that this has ever been called a settlers' war (hear, hear). Those who in their place in the House accused the settlers of Taranaki of bringing on this war from greed of land, and followed up that accusation by stating that the Governor bad succumbed to a pressure brought upon him to get land for the extension of the larunaki settlement, were tbe sole originators ot the phrase, "itis a settlers' war." On. what occasion did the Duke of Newcastle use that term first? Why, in expressing bis astonishment that I should not have called it a settlers war, i in referring to my statement tbatiit was an Imperial war, which he thought, had inadvertently dropped from me as Colonial Secretary But that was no inadvertent statement. It was in entire agreement and accordance with evers statement that my hon. colleagues or myself have evr r, in speaking or writing, used to characterise this war. What was one of the first acts of Ministers to place the matter in its true position, but tho writing by my hon. colleague, at New Plymouth, before a shot was fired, a memorandum to tbe effect tbat this was peculiarly an Imperial war? If hon. members will turn to papers laid on the table last session with reference to the expenses of tbe militia, they will find one of the first a document dated March 3rd, l°6o, written by the Colonial Treasurer to tbe effect tbat this was peculiarly an Imperial war. In so far as declarations in this House and out of it have been made by the present Ministry, they have always been to the effect that we could not recognise as anything but as an Imperial war, a war begun and conducted by Imperial officers, for Imperial interests', but one also in which the settlers and the Colony have the largest and most intimate concern. That is the true footing on which it was placed by the lion, member for the City of Auckland (Air. Firth) thai while we call this an Imperial war, we recognise that it intimately affects the inhabitants of this island, and will not shrink from the consequence of that relation to it. It is the hon. member for Rangitiki himself, carried away by tbe feeling of factious opposition to tbe Ministry, who has raised the cry it is a settlers war 'in England, which otherwise I doubt if wo should beard (bear, and no, no). Well, I will conceive that it is just possible that in one quarter not many miles from Wellington, -not a hundred miles from Otiiki— tbe expression might have been first enunciated and brought before the notice of the 1 people in England (hear, hea>.) Then, Sir, tbe hon. member refers to that proclamation of martial law, of which so much was attempted to be made last session. Tbat which we have been told was probably tbe cause of the rising in arms at Tarauaki against Her Majesty's forces, and yet which has not been to this day, in only one- single instance, adduced _by Natives at Taranaki as an excuse for lebellion. It was stated by me last session ; and I cheeied the bon. member when be said so to. night, that we knew that that proclamation would have but little effect on tbe Native mind, but thought it necessary as a first step, to compel those provisions being taken us were necessary for the safety of the Europeans in the i pproaching crisis, to compel people to go into town whether they desired it or not. And tbe necessity of it for the purposes for which it was issued soon h tea ire apparent- The first action that took place between the Natives, and the troops and settlers, occurred in tbe attempt to brhi" people into town. Tbat action of Wairckasi 1 gallantly fought by those whom I was sorry to hear the hon member for llangitiki again charging 10-iiighl as being unable to help themselves. In that first action, a hithei to untried force, having had arms in their hands ohly a few days, and some of them but fora few hours, stood gallantly from the lime they first encountered the enemy until far on in the night. Stood unsupported — nay, worse, left alone — by those with whom they went iuto action. (I don't wish now to l'cilect on those who left them alone, but I will leave it to history to determine whether it was Col. Gold or Col. Murray who made the mistake, for a grave mistake it was). Nothing but the acknowledged gallantry of those Taranaki voluntec*, whom the hon. member snccisat so (no,) could have redeemed that day from being a da} of utter loss and ruii : And I* say now, iv the presence of a largo Auckland audience, that if, as I believe will be the case, the people of this and the other provinces, act on similar occasions as well as did those of Taranaki at Waireka, we have but little to fear for the lesultofany war (great chewing). Then, Sir, we shall not see 20,000 souls driven into the towns of Auckland and Wellington for refuge (hear). No warning was given to settlers on the West Coast the hon. gentleman says; no blockhouses were erected for their protection and no arms put into the hands of the scattered settlers in an extended district which on other occasions be says is fifty miles squaie — [Mr. Fox : It was the W.inganui and ltangitiki districts which 1 referred to as being 60 miles square] — I understood the hon. member in his remarks with the deputation to His Excellency to refer to the Waogumii and llangitikei districts.' Well, sir, ho warning was given, and, as I asked last session, 1 now ask, what kind of warning bould have been given ? On the possible eve of vacating our seats at this table I ask the hon. member to state what warning he proposes to give should a similar occasion arise; be may then determine what warning is to be given throughout the country if military operations are to have the least chance of success. What would have been the certain results had such a warning been attempted? If tbe Governor had, at a time when he could not possibly have foreseen the attitude which Win. King, leaning on false supports, would then assume, prewously written to all parts of the Colony ar.d said, " I am about to go Iw war," he would hare made war certain which to the last moment was a matter of duubt (hear, hoar). Sir, 1 believe that that war would have been to this time a matter of doubt, I believe that any war at this moment would huve teen equally a matter of doubt, had tbcrcnotbeen unfortunately in this countiy people who, from one motive or another, most assiduously have instilled into the Native mind that the Queen's Governor and the Queen's Government were two different tbiugs ; that they could rebel against tbe Queen's Governor and receive support from the Queen hersoli

(cheers). Sir, I ask these mon, for I know that such exists; I ask those conscientious men amongst them, for 1 equally know that there are coiiscientious men amongst them, what is the feeling of their mind now? To what position have they brought their Native friends ? To what a state of rebellion have they caused them to arrive at, and what will be the certain issue of it? (hear, hear). Have they by such advice conduce:! to the civilization of the Natives or to their safety? Have they encouraged relations between the settler.-! and the Natives of such a character as alone can be maintained if both races are to live together in peace and prosperiy in this country ? I say, sir, and I say it with the deepest regret, that above all the causes— which are main' — and all the calamities which have beset the Native race, and are thinning and desolating them, no ono cause has been so destructive as the pernicious advice of those who said to them, " Go on and prosper in a rebellious spirit, for the Queen | at home will protect you against her Governor in this country " (cheers). And what been the., result ? Have the Queen and Her Ministers at home denounced the Governor of this Colony, and informed the natives that they were right ? Have they not, on the contrary, placed His Excollency in the proper position for a Governor of the Crown on such an occasion —left him totally unrestrained as to the course of action he may think fit to adopt, and responded to His Excellency's requests and the requests of his advisers to send out to this Colony such a force of Her Majesty's troops as would show that the British Government is in earnest in declaring that Her Majesty shall reign from one end of the Colony to the other ? On the shoulders of those blind guides of trusting Natives I lay the greater portion of tbe blood and treasure hitherto wasted, and the whole of that which may hereafter be expended (hear, hear). To "return to those blockhouses not built in ltangitiki, and other places, I ask him if it is his intention immediately, should he succeed to our seats, to commence building blockhouses in all parts of the countiy, and to call out the Militia and inhabitants of Wairarapa? Because, if he does so, he will go diametrically in opposition to the wishes expressed by his friend the Superintendent of Wellington. Wo have had Memorials from Wairarapa to hare blockhouses constructed there, and wo have been urged by the Superintendent of "Wellington to do no such Hung; and I believe— for I will not allow party feeling to prevent my expressing my opinion when I agree with the hon. gentleman— tbat the hon. member for the City of Wellington gave right and judicious advice when he advised that no arms should be sent or blockhouses contracted there ; but don t let the hon. member for Eangitiki accuse ns for holding this opinion, unless at the same time he turns round and says ho thoroughly disagrees with the hon member for the City of Wellington. Then we again have the twice-told tale of our not only not having armed the settlers, but having positivclv disarmed them, mid having armed the Natives; and the hon. member, knowing how utterly baseless the statement was, says—" no doubt we have on some occasion, heard some feeble answer to the effect that arms were sent away without the orders or knowledge of ihe Colonial Goverment, and turning round with well- feigned indignation he asks—" Is that a proper Government who could tnlow arms to pass from the Colony without their knowing it ?" Well, if the lion, member possesses that power of omniscience which he must possess to know that on a certain day-without notice ffiven— arms would be sent by persons outside ef the Government of the Colony into a ship, and bo conveyed away-if he is able to divine such a tbiii"'as that, then we are certainly not right m keemnsr him from occupying these seats,— we arc improperly preventing so much omniscient sagacity from assisting in the Government of the Colony What will he say when ho learns tbat the larger j proportion were sent away from a port where we did not reside, and that, instead of being; " cood percusion muskets," five years ago Major Lloyd refused to accept a large proportion of them for the Tarauaki Militia as being worthless and unserviceable, and not fit to put into a bravo man's hands. So much for the good muskets that were sent away, even if we had known that they were going at all. They were sent by the sole direction of Colonel Gold, without any intimation to the Colonial Government that he meant to send any away. Then, again, as to arming the Natives the hon. member assumes that tbe Natives wcro'disarmed, and without the means of obtaining aims if we hild not relaxed the terms ot Sir George Grey's Proclamation. On the contrary, the Natives were being supplied m the most danserous manner. 1 admit that the relaxation was a debatable question, but I deny that it can be conclusively proved to have been a wrong step At the time it was relaxed the Natives were being supplied with arms in the most dangerous manner, which we had no possible power of preventing. They were being smuggled in large numbers on different parts of the coast, and by ships not of our own country but sailing under a foreign.flag, which rendered it possible that not only a native but a foreign war might grow out of the transaction. Have we' not seen proofs of it ? Can it be proved tbat the rifles with which the natives are so largely armed were legally bought ? Where will the hon member find the record of a single license issued authorising the purchase of a rifle or of a revolver ? vet it would bo no difficult thing to show that large humbors of rifles have been used with deadly eilect by them, and which could only have been smuggled into their hands. One section of the Salivas, indeed, did take great advantage of the opportunity to purchase arms offered by the relaxation. I allude more especially to a tribe who have always been peacefully disposed, and wo may yet have reason to feel happy that they continue to be so. Some of that tribe did object that while disaffected Natives were, in ono way or another, obtaining arms and ammunition, they alone who would not smtiffffle were unarmed and unable to protect themselves. I again say that I think the question of the relaxation, of that proclamation at the time was open to argument. I will not say it was absolutely beyond dispute that it might not have been better to have left, things as they were, and to run all risks and take the consequeuces arising therefrom; bufc I utterly refuse to admit that there cannot be any argument on the other side. We have heard the most staunch supporters of the lion, member himself rising in their place in this House on previous occasions and stating in a manly way that they approved of the act and had been among the first to advise it. I especially allude to an hon. member whom, though he generally divided against us I regrefnot to see now in this House— Mr. Daldy. Before I dismiss this question, to which it would havo been superfluous to refer, but for the reiterated assertions of the hon. member for llangitiki in connection with it, Hot only in this House, but wherever what falls from his tongue and pen can be heard or read, I will mention that it was referred to a Committee of this House (moved for, 1 think, by Mr. Williamson), not under tbe influence of excitement, but with calm deliberation, and'they, having taken evidence upon it, came to the conclusion that they were not prepared to recommend that Sir George Grey's proclamation should be again put in force.— [Mr. Fox: Should he further relaxed, I think it was.]— [ Mr. Williamson : It was Colonel Haultain who moved for that Committee. I was upon it, but was not present when the report was prepared.] — I said, I think, for I was not quite sure, though I knew the hon. member was a member of that Committee. The reporfof that Committee was adopted by the House. I will do the hon. member for Auckland the justice to say that, notwithstanding that the report of tbe Committee was adopted, he has always, I believe, adhered to the opinion that it was unwise to relax Governor Grey's proclamation. Then we come to a very grave charge, ' which, shows how vory little the bon. member knows of the position of those Ministers whom he now wishes to supplant. We are accused of interfering with military operations to the effect of preventing General Pratt from reaping the advantages of his celebrated " sap." Here, again, 1 say that under similar circumstances would we have concurred in

the course taken by his Excellency. The Waikatos themselves withdrew from the " sap" which was thus powerless against them (hear, hear). Seeing, then, from different, indications that the Waikatos engaged in the war were beginning to get tired of it ; from assurances to that effect made to his Excellency by Natives from Waikato, specially visiting his Excellency for the purpose ; and from letters written by W. Thompson to General Pratt, which he immediately forwarded to the Governor ; and from their leaving the scat of war, — than we, wishing that there should be no more bloodshed if possible, either Native or European, did advise tbe the Governor, or concurred in his suggestion, for I cannot, at this moment, recollect with whom the idea originated, but we unanimously concurred that no time should, be lost, before Mis Excellency proceeded to Taranaki with a view of coming to terms with the Ngatiawa ami others. And during the whole of tbat time we never did forget to recognise that there was a strong probability that some mistaken chivalrous idea, some belief that they were fighting Ibv a substantial right, did justify the Ngatiawa in the course they pursued. Hence tbat difference in the terms which we advised his Excellency tooffer. We looked on them as being as much sinned against as sinning; grivously sinned against (but not by the Governor), when they were advised to assume the contumacious attitude which they did towards his Excellency. Believing such to bo the case, we did concur that his Excollency should offer to the Ngatiawa terms which the hon. member says were ignominious and disgraceful to, the British name, but which I am prepared to defend and to stand up for in any place in the worlds We felt it to be a duty — heartless and reckless as we have been termed — that with respect to the Ngatiawa, especially, justice should be tempered by mercy;, that that was the right course for the Governor of a great nation ; tbat it was right not to close tbe one loophole left for those men to creep out of. The. difference of terms offered had a direct and immediate relation to _ the difference of crimes and position. I never 'will accord to the Ngatiruanuis and Taranakis that they should be placed in the same category with the Ngatiawa, nor will I agree that the same terms should be offered to Waikato as to Ngatiawa, .for such would be a most grevious compromise of Her Majesty's sovereignty, "What right had tbe Waikatos to be in that quarrel at all, but the right pertaining to the idea that they belonged , to a separate nation, whose sovereign flag having waved over the land on which our soldiers stood they were bound to encounter those troops? (hear, hear.) To have allowed them to retire from the contest on the terms offered to the Ngatiawa, would have been treason to the Crown, to whoso Governor were sworn to give our best advice. I very much regret that I am really physically incapable to-night to do justice to the question to which the attention of the House has been called. Our conduct has been' impugned by the hon. member for liangitikei, and the result of the arraignment (1 think that was the word he used) is an imputation against us as conductors of a war • which we were powerless — as being out of our management — to conduct ; and a i'ew unsupported assertions of a desire on our part to destroy local self-government. In making these assertions the hon. gentleman has, on this occasion, restrained himself to an extent which I was not prepared to give him credit for. Judging from the few bitter remarks of the hon. gentleman before ho proposed this motion, I certainly expected a dis : play more in accordance with his known antecedents : and I congratulate the House that if he succeeds to these seats there are hopes, even of him, that in the eleventh hour he may return to a recognition of the proper manner in which a grave question should be discussed. But still the hon. member could, not, in his set and studied speech, altogether avoid a sneer at what really deserves to be called an oration made by my lion, colleague a few days since. That, Sir, was not the oration of the midnight lamp, it was but a few minutes before determined that my hon. colleague should address th» House at all ; but I do think that it tne words " set oration" and " midnight lamp" are applicable to any member of this House, the hon. member for ltangitiki may, not inappropriately, take them up as a cap to lit his own head. Why does he always select the midnight lamp, or what may be better termed the foot lights, as such a necessary contingency in addressing this House, that he invariably selects that light as the only one suitable to his effusions ? I cannot, however, altogether let the hon. member's remarks pass without notice ; the rather because they deserve attention in connection with the subject before the house, than because of any particular weight contained in the charges which he has made. I cannot understand the exact position in which the hon. member desires to place himself. If I look on one side to his position, if his present motion, should be successful, and on the other, to his statement with reference to negociations with the Waikatos, I ask what does ho mean by swallowing wholesale addresses declaring that negociations should not bo indefinitely prolonged, and yet coming down and accusing us of a desire not to prolong negociations? What will be his own position if he succeeds to these seats? He will find that the whole time of the Government by day, and the greater part of it by night, has been, and will be, one perpetual negotiation as to Native questions; that the consideration of Native lelters, and communications with or from this and the other Native, and answers to memorials from Natives all over the countiy, will occupy considerable time. The whole position of the Government is at present a perpetual negociation, and has always be^n so as long as I have had anything to do with it, but more especially so within the last few months — one perpetual consisideration of representations, memorials, letters, and replies, The hon. member then goes on to tell us that it is our duty to advise the Governor to carry out measures for the establishment of law and order. What else, then, is the Governor every day doing ? What was his address at Kobimarama? But, says the hon. member, the Natives who met at Kohimarama were so entirely devoted to beef and flour and sugar that it was of but little consequence what was said to them. But that Address was widely circulated both in Maori and English all over the country, and what the Governor had said came to the ears of thousands of Natives who were not present at Kohi mamma at all. I am glad to hear, on the hon. gentleman's authority, that the beef was good, and I ho|ie hon. membersVliocomeup to Auckland will be equally pleased with it in that respect, for 1 believe if not so, some hon. members would go back more dissatisfied with the results of this session than would be desirable on " consttutional" grounds. Then there was an accusation of treating with William Thompson through a third-class clerk. The hon. member is very fond of picking up high-sounding phrases, mounting on them, and riding them to death. Wo have heard the phrase " third-class clerk" about a dozen different times since the commencement of this session. Now r , ib was but by mere accident that even a third-class cleric took that letter to William Thompson at all. It was a sealed letter, not conveyed by an ambassador or one empowered to treat in any way; indeed, the only order that the bearer received was not to preteriß to know anything of the intentions of the Government and not to speak on the subject at all (hear, hear). He was to act the part of a mere postman, and would not have been sent at all if wo had known where "William Thompson was, but it happened tbat he was travelling about at the time between Waikato and Waipa. It was, therefore, not unnatural and not unnecessary that a messenger should be sent— not to take care to see Thompson, but to take care that he got His Excellency's letter. Then, Sir, the hon. member displays his knowledge of Native feeling on the subject of whether we should have treated with them or not, or selected a more efficient ambassador or not. He certainly told news to his supporters in this House, which they must have been sorry to hear, when he said that the Chief who was made a

medium of communication with the Natives was without influence with them. That Chief, Sir, was Taniati Ngapora, and there is not one in Waikato superior to him for general influence and popularity. But so well does the hon. member know the duties he is so anxious to undertake, and which he states wo are so unfit to perform, that with the rest of his attacks he rolls up the accusation that wo selected an uninflential man, in Tamati Ngapora, to be the bearer of His Excellency's sentiments. That was the only bit of news in his speech. I expected to have heard more news, and more truth also, though not such as would fit together, but that was the only bit of news, and I leave that to its effect on those who have heard it, with reference to his fitness to select agents to treat with the Native people. Then the hon. member starts up, fully equipped in hia war paint, andjdeclares he will conduct the war in an energetic manner, which I are quite unable to do, and as a first indication of special energy he adopts our own terma to the Waikatos— reads them out from the printed paper, and says,—-' That is the advice I will give; and if His Excellency won't take it, I will throw on him the responsibility." I congratulate the country again in not haying to expect any startling novelties from the hon. gentleman. To one thing sufficiently startling I have just adverted, but with reference to his policy, 1 knew that no startling novelties could be expected. Well, I am really glad of it. There is an amount of reckless.iess in the temperament of the hon. gentleman, which, if he had the constructive faculty largely developed, might be dangerous in the present circumstances of the colony. But, not having that faculty, he is comparatively harmless ; he wants % to do something, but cannot conceive what it should be. Therefore the danger attending his accession to power at the present moment will depend , on the combination into which he enters. Some great combustion may take place ! if the hon. gentleman combines . with other materials which are wanting in him. I believe, however, that the hon. member at this moment has no more conclusive idea as to how he willl compose a Ministry than I have, and I confess myself totally unable to say how. I have heard many names mentioned, but I know that some of them would combine with each other aa well as oil with water, and, without having time to blow up the country, would blow up the hon. gentleman him : self. Then, Sir, the hon. member passingly alluded to the principles of and provincialism. 'I defy him to prove that we have attempted to destroy [ local self-government. If he means that we hay« not considered that a Superintendent was to be an uncontrolled despot, and saya we are opposed to provincialism because we wont accept that idea, then he speaks the literal truth. I would as soon assume that Louis Napoleon was a representative of all the cardinal virtues of the representative system because he was an elected despot, elected too by a much more universal suffrage than Superintendents are elected by. I would as soon place his administration and form of government above the glorious constitution of England, as I would accept the idea of the hon. gentleman that a Superintendent can do no wrong because ho is originally elected by the people. The party of the hon. gentleman have also accused^ us we have recognized, as worthy of consideration, die elective Provincial Council of a Province, and because wo have re fused to take the part cither of a Superintendent or of a Council for the destruction of the other. I have equally refused to destroy the obnoxious Provincial, Council and Jthe obnoxious Superintendent, as neither of them has a right to tramplo out the other ; but together they are _bound to work for the country. — [Mr. Renall: No, no.] — The hon. member means that the Superintendent can do no wrong, and that the Council can do no right when they come into collision. — [Mr. Rgnall. The hon. member is misrepresenting me.] — I join issue on that idea, and am prepared to get up an agitation on the special question. Is a Superintendent to trample out a Provincial Council whenever ho disagrees with it ? Because wo have not allowed this to be done, we have been accused by the Superintendental party of being enemies of local self-govern-ment, and the attempt to show that the New Provinces Act was the representation of that idea, is the most puerile attempt ever presented to the minds of sane men. "What does the New Provinces Act mean ? It means that people in the same position as Taranaki, Otago, and Canterbury, &c, were before they were made Proviuces, should have the same opportunities of self-government as they had. When the Consstitution Act was passed the population of Otago was somewhere about 2,400 people, and up to that time their operations had been limited to a block not exceeding 400.000 acres — a block in conformity with the number of people, rather in excess, perhaps, of what they could use at first, but which would pioperly from time to time be enlarged. It might also have happened, if the Constitution Act had been passed a couple of years sooner, that the -Canterbury plains, then lying waste, would have been divided between Otago and Nelson, for to suppose that Sir George Grey would have excepted the Canterbury plains without population, when lie did not except Taupo or any other unpeopled district, would be to expect him to make an exception which, what he did do, as on the west coast of the middle island, does not justify us in supposing. The monstrosity of the demand of ultra Provincialists, " that there shall be six Provinces, but only six," I cannot understand. I can understand one of two positions — either, that, certain conditions being given, a certain population should have the right of self-government ; or, that there should be no Provinces at all. Hon. gentlemen who say there shall be no new Provinces say too much. [Mr. Renall: Who said it?] — They may say then that on each occasion a separate Memorial and Act should have been brought before this House. We all know what would be the result of such a course. Murihiku presented a petition to this House two years ago, and what was the result ? It got no reply whatever, although it made out a remakably good case, and asked to have, at all events, some financial security that the wholo of its land-fund should not be spent without its will or benefit. But it is no use going into this question in detail now, for we will probably have an opportunity during the session thrice to slay the slain, The hon. member in alluding to this, v most inaccurately n said that ! Wellington and Auckland had suffered . before last session, omitting the fact that, if suffering I there was, Auckland has not suffered. — [Mr Fox : I made no such allusion to Auckland.] — I think the words of the hon. member were these: — '• Auckland and Wellington have suffered, but I don't think Nelson will suffer. — [Mr. Fox: I did not then allude to the New Provinces Act, but I said they suffered from the attempt to destroy Provincial institutions.] — Let the hon. member then, if lie can, point to any special policy towards any particular Province, or any special intimation given to any Superintendent, that was not a circular sent to all, except what might relate to special Bills passed in a particular Province. One universal line of conduct has been adopted towards them all ; and with reference to the disallowance of their Acts there has been but little difference. For four consecutive years we have laid on tho table of the House every despatch written with reference to the disallowance of Provincial Acts, which, printed in the bluce- books, have been widely circulated throug the Colony, and been sent to every newspaper ; and it ia a rather extraordinary fact that not a single person has yet; charged us either with unfairness or mistaken judgment with respect to the reasons we have given for disallowing Provincial Bills ; though we have invited such open criticism on the subject, thinking it right that the Colony should know what our reasons were for advising his Excellency not to give his assent, The last subject to which I will allude, I refer to, I won't say with much pain, for I know the hon. member so well, that I am rather ashamed at feeling pain at anything he says, but in thia case he was more '

inaccurate than is usual even for him. He stated that a special course was adopted towards Wel« lington with respect to the issue of writs for. the last election. Sir, there is in the hands of every member a printed return uncalled for by the House, spontaneously furnished by me. showing in the most complete form all the circumstances connected with the issue of writs for each district, namely, the day on which each writ was issued, the day of the return of the member, the day when it was received hack, and the name of the returning officer. Let the lion, member turn to that, aud say how he could make the statement he has made ; or that other that the writ for the Cheviot district was purposely kept back so as to ensure my hon. colleage a seat. That is one of those contingent sneers which the hon. memberfor Rangitiki makes enemies by when he only intends to attack Ministers. The electors of Cheviot won't thank him for the allusion, and won't be likely to look out foi an ardent supporter of himself at the next election. The writ for Cheviot was issued at the same time, was accompanied by the same instructions, and left the hands of the Government at the same moment as all the other writs did, with two exceptions, — first some 17 or 18,— which, were at once issued on the dissolution, as required by law, for districts the constituencies of whioh were not disturbed by the Representation Act. These included the writ for my own seat the election for which had taken place before 1 was even uware who would oppose me, and. before I had any opportunity whatever of communicating with the electors. And lam grateful to the electors of Nelson who, without explanation from me, and in defiance of the statements made by the hon. member for Rangitiki when passing through, (hardly made with a view of securing my return,) did notwithstanding show the same confidence in me then which they had generously reposed^ in Ime on previous occassions. The other exception,, which I have mentioned, referred to the writs for Timaru and for Wallace, which were not issued with th others on 3rd of January, because we had. not then received the new rolls from the respective returning officers of those districts; and it was only because we were anxious not to keep back all i the elections for the sake of one or two rolls, that we did not wait till these rolls also were received ; which, however, I am glad we did not do, as, had we done so, we could not then have summoned the House bo early we did. With reference to the delay of the writs issue 1 in 1858, I shall say nothing more than that the hon. member has said was not correcf. The reason for naming foity days was to hasten the elections. The case ; of Wellington was not, in that respect, an isolated one, for the same term, with the addition of five days more, (not too much for the distance between "Wellington and Canterbury), was fixed for the Nelson and Canterbury, writs ; and. so near did the time run out in the latter case, that had any poll been demanded at the election of a member for Akaroa, he could not hay c been legally elected. It is, I believe, true that one hundred days was the number allowed in the first general election in Sir George Grey's time, but then there was not a single steamer on the coast, and I think it took five months instead of one hundred days before the writs for Otago were returned to Governor Grey, who made this a reason for not calling the Assembly together. We desired that in the case in question there should be no delay, as there is a groat deal of difference in the action taken by returning officers — for instance, the. writ for Napier has not been returned yet, although it was expected by the Lori Wonky (Mr. Fox, hear, hear). I shall be quite as glad to see the hon. member expected from Napier, as the hon. member for. Eangitiki will, I can assure him (hear). Well, Sir, the hon. member has left me nothing more to comment upon, and I have exhausted myself.'and, I should think, the patience of the House,jto which lam obliged for the indulgence with which they have heard me. I think, however, 1 have now referred to all the subjects mentioned in the speech of the hon. member on this occasion, which was hardly worthy of the hon. gentleman, whom I have heard make a hundred better speaohes, delivered fluently, instead of with that stiff and costive utterance which has graced or blemished.Jiis set speech to-night. The hon. gentleman is frequently an attractive and telling speaker. I know but few who, for the time, can more influence the minds of those' who listen to them, especially if they know nothing pf the subr ject of his speech, than the hon. geutleman. But ho did most signally fail to-night, and he was award of it. If I had had to prepare the arraignment on this occasion, after a five years' peroid of office, I really think I could have done it better, and with more eflect (loud cheers).